# What do you hate about vegans/vegetarians? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 21, 2007, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-hate-about-vegans-vegetarians/408821 "2007-06-21T07:11:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2007, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-hate-about-vegans-vegetarians/408821/121 "2007-06-23T03:03:52Z")
What do **I** hate about vegans/vegetarians? I hate that they get so anemic and malnourished that, after starting a thread on the SDMB, they’re either too scatterbrained or just plain weak to follow up. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2007, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-hate-about-vegans-vegetarians/408821/122 "2007-06-23T03:57:34Z")
I get irritated, yes. I admit I’m not proud of it, because I’d like to think of myself as open-minded and acceptable of all creeds and philosophies. I think a large contingent are following the crowd, trying to be cool. The vegetarian/vegan phase seems to be embedded in white, middle- and upper-middle-class, college-educated, bohemian, liberal-leaning youth. The diet goes hand-in-hand with smelly Tevas, well-worn Volvo station wagons with afgans in the backseat, and whiney emo. With a few exceptions, all the vegetarians/vegans I’ve met have been people who are deep-pocketed enough that they can afford to search out the local Whole Foods and buy a pound of organic vegetables for 15 bucks, while talking about what the rest of us are doing to our bodies. They have the luxury of attaching a political statement to their food because they’ve never experienced hunger or the threat of hunger. It’s irritating because they’re predictable. I hate when people perpetuate stereotypes. If you don’t like the taste of meat, I understand. I don’t like all kinds of meat (ham is too pink for my liking; I can’t stand lamb). I definitely understand the health concerns–especially for dairy products. If you draw a line at eating vertebrates for ethical reasons, or if you choose to eat in the most ecologically friendly way by chowing down on lower trophic groups, I also understand. But not eating any honey because bees made it (the horror!), or refusing to eat chocolate because it may have tiny bone fragments in it, or freaking out because you ate a Skittle with gelatin in it…it seems to me that at that point, you have an eating disorder. You might as well freak out about all the bugs parts that are in your breakfast cereal or all the worms that died when your soy beans were harvested. And you may want to stop washing your face every morning, if you don’t want to kill all the mites and nematodes living commensually on your skin. If you’re going to be an obsessive-compulsive Jainist, at least be consistant. Picky eaters of all stripes get on my nerves. But vegans in particular annoy me because they are the only ones who try to intellectualize their pickiness. ---
**Author:** ![hawksgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ed655f/32.png) [@hawksgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawksgirl)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2007, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-hate-about-vegans-vegetarians/408821/123 "2007-06-23T04:02:19Z")
[QUOTE=Haunted] Well, nothing but this: and this: [/QUOTE] No, that doesn’t contradict what you’re saying. Read better. The only thing is that we’re saying three months = a few weeks. You’re the one on shaky ground. ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2007, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-hate-about-vegans-vegetarians/408821/124 "2007-06-23T04:48:48Z")
[QUOTE=Can Handle the Truth] That they appear pale, thin, and generally sickly, while deluding themselves into thinking that they are healthier than the rest of us. [/QUOTE] But my wife is vegan, and she is fat. > [@VCO3](#): > > Their poop and farts STINK in a completely unnatural, horrific, Lovecraftian way. I was dating a vegetarian girl a few years ago, and I made the mistake of walking into the bathroom not long after she had been in there. It smelled like someone had been burning garbage made up of tires and human hair - one of the worst things I’ve ever smelled. It made me instantly unable to be attracted to her ever again, and I had to break it off soon thereafter. and my farts stink way worse than hers. (I eat meat.) ---
**Author:** ![Haunted](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/898d66/32.png) [@Haunted](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haunted)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2007, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-hate-about-vegans-vegetarians/408821/125 "2007-06-23T10:19:41Z")
[QUOTE=hawksgirl] No, that doesn’t contradict what you’re saying. Read better. The only thing is that we’re saying three months = a few weeks. You’re the one on shaky ground. [/QUOTE] Sorry, **hawksgirl**. I will try to “read better,” but I just don’t think I can agree that a “few weeks” means “12 to 24 weeks.” Nor can I agree that “the vast majority of weight” means “about 50% of weight.” Am I really on shaky ground with those conclusions? Incidentally, the [National Cattlemen’s Beef Association](http://www.beefusa.org/uDocs/Feedlot%20finishing%20fact%20sheet%20FINAL_4%2026%2006.pdf) states that: Cattle are raised on range or pasture land for most of their lives (usually 12-18 months), then transported to a feedlot for finishing. These cattle usually spend about three to six months in a feedlot, during which time they gain between 2.5 and 4 pounds per day. The cattle are fed a scientifically formulated ration that averages 70 percent to 90 percent grain. On this special diet, cattle will gain about 1 pound for every 6 pounds of feed they consume. That’s a lot of grain, given that each head of cattle gains between 2.5 and 4 pounds per day. I think it’s pretty clear that while cattle do eat grass, they also eat a lot of grain. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2007, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-hate-about-vegans-vegetarians/408821/126 "2007-06-23T10:34:45Z")
Hmm… I guess I hate vegans/vegetarians because they are really chewy and hard to pick out of my teeth. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2007, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-hate-about-vegans-vegetarians/408821/127 "2007-06-23T11:58:03Z")
**Haunted** , I think maybe you are not reading your own cites very carefully. Particularly what happens after the cattle are purchased by feeder operations. You left out this part: > [@](#): > > Many cattle feeders purchase lightweight feeder calves (350 to 550 pounds), **graze them during the spring and summer** , and then finish them in the feedlot starting in late summer or fall. From [_your_ cite](http://agalternatives.aers.psu.edu/livestock/feeding_beef_cattle/feeding_beef_cattle.pdf). You also missed this part: > [@](#): > > Cattle weighing 650 pounds or less initially can be fed a growing ration rather than a finishing ration. Growing rations supply additional **hay or other forage in place of grain**. In other words, _ **grass** _. So the _growing_ rations (note the adjective used there) use _grass_ in place of grain. Moreover, if you had read carefully, you would have noticed that [silage](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silage) and [forage](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forage) are also incorporated into even the finishing diets in feeder operations Silage consists of _whole plants_ (usually corn or sorghum), _not just the grain_. Forage is, well, _hay_. In other words, _ **more grass** _. ---
**Author:** ![Haunted](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/898d66/32.png) [@Haunted](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haunted)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2007, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-hate-about-vegans-vegetarians/408821/128 "2007-06-23T12:32:59Z")
Haunted, I think maybe you are not reading your own cites very carefully. Particularly what happens after the cattle are purchased by feeder operations. You left out this part: Quote: Many cattle feeders purchase lightweight feeder calves (350 to 550 pounds), graze them during the spring and summer, and then finish them in the feedlot starting in late summer or fall. I did read that. \* It’s the same thing\*. “Cattle are raised on range or pasture land for most of their lives (usually 12-18 months), then transported to a feedlot for finishing.” The only thing about your statement that is different is that the calves are moved twice. > [@](#): > > Cattle weighing 650 pounds or less initially can be fed a growing ration rather than a finishing ration. Growing rations supply additional hay or other forage in place of grain. > > In other words, grass. So the growing rations (note the adjective used there) use grass in place of grain. I read that too. Do the words “can be” and “initially” mean anything to you? Are you really saying that cattle don’t eat a lot of grain at a feedlot? Is the National Cattlemen’s Beef Association misinformed? > [@](#): > > Moreover, if you had read carefully, you would have noticed that silage and forage are also incorporated into even the finishing diets in feeder operations Silage consists of whole plants (usually corn or sorghum), not just the grain. Forage is, well, hay. > > In other words, more grass. Oy, with the comments about my reading skills. Anyway, again, this is a repeat of the info I shared, _although using different words_. Specifically: The cattle are fed a scientifically formulated ration that averages 70 percent to 90 percent grain. It says right there… 70 to 90 percent grain. I never quoted a source that said it was all grain. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2007, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-hate-about-vegans-vegetarians/408821/129 "2007-06-23T12:39:46Z")
Well then, I’m not sure how you think your cites contradict what I said in the first place. At best, you seem to be quibbling about what percentage of their lives cows spend in a feedlot, and what percentage of their ultimate weight is the result of being fed grain. You are not contradicting that cattle spend most of their lives in pasture or that most of their ultimate weight comes from eating grass. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2007, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-hate-about-vegans-vegetarians/408821/130 "2007-06-23T13:02:02Z")
Incidentially, **Haunted** , I found it hilarious that the author of one of your cites was _horrified_ that cattle in feedlots stand in their own waste. I’ve got news for you: cattle in pastures regularly stand in their own waste. They also regularly shit all over themselves. Neither event seems to bother them at all. ---
**Author:** ![Haunted](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/898d66/32.png) [@Haunted](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haunted)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2007, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-hate-about-vegans-vegetarians/408821/131 "2007-06-23T14:18:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Well then, I’m not sure how you think your cites contradict what I said in the first place. At best, you seem to be quibbling about what percentage of their lives cows spend in a feedlot, and what percentage of their ultimate weight is the result of being fed grain. You are not contradicting that cattle spend most of their lives in pasture or that most of their ultimate weight comes from eating grass. Spoke, all I can suggest is that you reread the discussion. The facts are there. To repeat myself or repost something I’ve already shared is a waste of my and everyone else’s time. I think people can draw their own conclusions based on what’s been shared. ---
**Author:** ![Haunted](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/898d66/32.png) [@Haunted](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haunted)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2007, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-hate-about-vegans-vegetarians/408821/132 "2007-06-23T14:22:56Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] Incidentially, **Haunted** , I found it hilarious that the author of one of your cites was _horrified_ that cattle in feedlots stand in their own waste. I’ve got news for you: cattle in pastures regularly stand in their own waste. They also regularly shit all over themselves. Neither event seems to bother them at all. [/QUOTE] I get it. You’re upset about… well, something. It’ll pass. ---
**Author:** ![berff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/43a26b/32.png) [@berff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/berff)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2007, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-hate-about-vegans-vegetarians/408821/133 "2007-06-24T05:33:22Z")
[QUOTE=Agent Foxtrot] I’ll go vegetarian ever so often to help trim my waistline, but otherwise, I find the whole vegetarianism/veganism for animal rights attitude somewhat silly. [/QUOTE] I’m having trouble understanding how going vegetarian can have any effect on losing weight. If anything, I would think that people who eat lots of meat would be thinner than vegetarians since vegetarians most likely have a higher ratio of carbohydrates in their diet, although it’s my understanding that it mostly comes down to calories consumed versus calories burned anyway. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2007, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-hate-about-vegans-vegetarians/408821/134 "2007-06-24T13:40:51Z")
[QUOTE=berff] I’m having trouble understanding how going vegetarian can have any effect on losing weight. If anything, I would think that people who eat lots of meat would be thinner than vegetarians since vegetarians most likely have a higher ratio of carbohydrates in their diet, although it’s my understanding that it mostly comes down to calories consumed versus calories burned anyway. [/QUOTE] The Atkins diet has been thoroughly debunked lol. Weight gain is not a matter of proteins vs carcohydrates. If anything (besides total calories and excercise of course) it’s a matter of healthy food vs unhealthy food. Carbs are not one size fits all. Carbohydrate is not a molecule, it’s a whole class of molecules, and there is no food that can simplified as a carb or a protein. You can pretty much eat vegetables (with certain exceptions) all day long and not get fat, and you would have to really try hard to only eat vegetables and fail to get enough protein. Obviously you can’t do the same with doritos. And yeah sure, if you eat a lot but fail to eat properly you could also get skinny from malnutrition. But that’s kind of besides the point… ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2007, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-hate-about-vegans-vegetarians/408821/135 "2007-06-24T20:38:11Z")
I dont hate vegans/vegetarians, but I do tend to not get along with such people very well. It’s not because of their diet, but because of the personality type that can often accompany such a lifestyle, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Carlyjay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Carlyjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carlyjay)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2007, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-hate-about-vegans-vegetarians/408821/136 "2007-06-24T23:12:32Z")
As many have said, I don’t think it’s the vegan or vegetarian thing that so many people despise. It’s that so many vegans/vegetarians seem to be so _militant_ about it. That being said, I’m sure it’s a vicious cycle as well. I know I get wary when I find out someone is a vegetarian or a vegan because at least 80% of the vegans/vegetarians I’ve known in my life have been the militant, “I must convert you” kind. Which annoys me, because I don’t try to convert _them_ back to eating meat. As such, I’m sure that perfectly happy, non-militant vegans and vegetarians encounter, as the OP said, an awful lot of wariness and negativity in general, so that eventually many are automatically defensive, as I’m automatically defensive of my meat-eating ways around them due to the unfortunate militants I’ve encountered. And the cycle begins. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2007, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-hate-about-vegans-vegetarians/408821/137 "2007-06-24T23:51:31Z")
[QUOTE=Beware of Doug] Humans are the only animal that eats for abstract socio-political reasons. [/QUOTE] “Humans are the only animals that \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ for abstract socio-political reasons.” Pretty sure this is true no matter what goes on the line. Anyway, I don’t hate vegans and veggies but I am slightly annoyed by them. I mean, I’m slightly annoyed by ANYONE that says or believes something stupid. When someone tells me they’re a vegetarian, the next question I ask is “Why?” and the answer will determine if I’m annoyed. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-hate-about-vegans-vegetarians/408821/138 "2007-06-25T00:19:17Z")
[QUOTE=IntelSoldier] Anyway, I don’t hate vegans and veggies but I am slightly annoyed by them. I mean, I’m slightly annoyed by ANYONE that says or believes something stupid. When someone tells me they’re a vegetarian, the next question I ask is “Why?” and the answer will determine if I’m annoyed. [/QUOTE] This attitude is exactly why I almost never answer the question when someone asks me why. I don’t have to pass your annoying test. I mean, if I tell you I’m a vegetarian, and don’t offer a reason, nor proselytize at you, just TELL you when/if it’s relevant, do I have to tell you why? Isn’t that question a trap, so you can either judge me or try to demolish my beliefs? If someone tells you they’re vegetarian and you don’t want to hear some (in your mind) self-righteous spiel, and intend to argue/judge damn near whatever they say, DO NOT ASK why they are vegetarians. It’s going to be uncomfortable for everyone involved if you go into the conversation with the attitude, “Let me see if this person’s deeply held personal beliefs are gonna annoy me…” I mean, what would be a good enough reason for you, that wouldn’t annoy you? Please let me know so I can whip it on the next person who won’t take “It’s personal” for an answer and insists on a reason. I’m not being snide, I really want to know what would qualify as a non-annoying reason for someone predisposed to be annoyed by and judgemental of others’ eating habits. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-hate-about-vegans-vegetarians/408821/139 "2007-06-25T00:51:09Z")
[QUOTE=Sailboat] Heh. I’ve been tempted to call them scavengers or carrion-eaters. Carnivores eat what they themselves kill…a creature who eats what he finds already dead on the side of the road, or wrapped in plastic in the supermarket, is scavenging carrion. [/QUOTE] So all animals that hunt in packs are carrion-eaters? Like wolves? After all, only one of them can actually land the killing blow. ---
**Author:** ![nashiitashii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7c8e57/32.png) [@nashiitashii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nashiitashii)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-hate-about-vegans-vegetarians/408821/140 "2007-06-25T00:58:14Z")
[QUOTE=Carlyjay] As many have said, I don’t think it’s the vegan or vegetarian thing that so many people despise. It’s that so many vegans/vegetarians seem to be so _militant_ about it. That being said, I’m sure it’s a vicious cycle as well. I know I get wary when I find out someone is a vegetarian or a vegan because at least 80% of the vegans/vegetarians I’ve known in my life have been the militant, “I must convert you” kind. Which annoys me, because I don’t try to convert _them_ back to eating meat. As such, I’m sure that perfectly happy, non-militant vegans and vegetarians encounter, as the OP said, an awful lot of wariness and negativity in general, so that eventually many are automatically defensive, as I’m automatically defensive of my meat-eating ways around them due to the unfortunate militants I’ve encountered. And the cycle begins. [/QUOTE] I guess I’m lucky that the first vegetarian I met was so nonchalant about it. She didn’t eat meat, didn’t make any justifications for it, and wasn’t bothered by people eating meat in front of her. Because we were friends before I was told, I generally use her as a template for most of the vegetarians I meet until I am given hints that they are of a militant mindset. ::shrugs:: I’ve run into relatively few militant vegetarians, but the ones that were militant were batshit about it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-hate-about-vegans-vegetarians/408821.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-hate-about-vegans-vegetarians/408821.md?page=8)