What do you know about Australia and it's Aborigines? (+ opinions on what you DO know)

Contentious. Australians basically did to the Aborigines what the United States did to the American Indians. Aborigines have very little in the way of money, education, and are often unemployed.

I imagine the Aborigines are somewhat resentful of the Australian government who treated them so badly for so many years. I imagine some Australians view the Aborigines as a bunch of lazy people who need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.

Very little. Save for tourist attractions.

Very little.
At least that’s my perception, it’s not as if I’ve actually been to Australia.

What do you know about the relationship between Aboriginal Australians and non-Aboriginal Australians?
They’re piss-poor? They’re, IMO, very similar to South African (White AND Black) relationships with our aborigines, the KhoiSan peoples. The same endemic alcoholism & abuse, the same political marginalisation and de facto segregation. The same expropriation of culture for its tourism value.
**What do you know about our attitudes towards each other?**Everything I know, I learnt from Kevin Bloody Wilson.:smiley:

Seriously, though, I gather there’s a pretty mixed attitude. I do have family in Oz, but they’re in the cities, and I gather there’s not that much opportunity to experience real interaction there. So all I know, I’ve picked up from films like Bran Nue Dae, Jindabyne, & Samson and Delilah, songs (from Wilson to Midnight Oil and Yothu Yindi).
How our cultures mix?
Badly. Especially for the Aborigines.
How intergrated we are in every day life?
Not very. I’m pretty sure there’s a lot of mixed-race Aborigines who could “pass”, and do, but I’m pretty sure the rest (the “purer” ones) are not integrated at all.
**What issues come up socially and legally?**There’s the alcoholism and abuse issues, cultural appropriation, land claims, general racism, probably racist policing as well. “Welfare queens” and giro abuse claims, too, no doubt.
What we (we being Aboriginal, or non-Aborignal) discuss privately about the [other]?
I’d hazard a guess that KBW’s take in Living Next Door to Alan is probably closer to most White Aussie’s feeling on Aborigines than Midnight Oil’s. That Aborigines are drunken freeloaders, that (as has been highlighted for me in a recent thread) their culture is valueless compared to modern culture, that they should just get over themselves.
I couldn’t say how Aborigines feel about White Aussies, but if it were anything like my feelings for White South Africans as a partly KhoeKhoen Coloured, there’d be a white-hot core of anger there at the original settlers, overlaid by deep layers of sadness and numbing grief at the loss of roots and culture, covered by a crust of ordinary responses to how one is treated by, and interacts with, the descendants of those settlers and other Whites - a metamorphic mixture of deep love (my wife, my friends), the same general indifference or mild affection I feel for all humans (the majority of Whites, I’d like to think), and dislike and pity (the remaining racists). But we don’t talk about this to each other. On the surface, we try and blend in.

Does the Australian Aboriginal population equate to the African American population of the USA?

Do you have an agenda? What is your experience of living with or engaging the Aboriginal AND Torres Strait Islanders?

Really?

I seem to recall this bloke hosting two of the country’s top rated current affairs shows and its top rated daytime talk show for over twenty years.

I also seem to recall this bloke hosting the same, top-rated, award winning, prime time TV show for over 15 years.

Do both my memory and Wikipedia deceive me, or were those Aboriginals not presenters of highly successful television shows for decades?

So deputy leader of the third largest political party isn’t serious?

Yeah it is. You just seem to have missed it somehow. Although how somebody who has presumably lived in Australia at some point in the past 20 years missed both Ray Martin and Ernie dingo escapes me. :dubious:

You forgot Stan Grant.

One of the strange behaviors of many Aborigines is the overwhelming emphasis on the present - the ‘here and now’. I have traveled around Australia and spoken to many indiginous Australians. They have a heavy focus on the present, with little concern for the future.

This is a personal observation, with no scientific basis. If anyone has any insight into this or scientific based evidence, I would be fascinated to here more.

I don’t know if it is a cultural thing or not. Maybe we all should have more of a focus on the present instead of living in the future.

I know for sure there is a massive standard of living difference between indiginous Australians and non-indiginous.

D’oh. :smack:

Going back a few years, but still an award winning host of a national current affairs program.

The claim that Australians would never have an Aboriginal TV host is looking pretty strange. These were all on commercial stations, and have all won public-vote Logie Awards, so it’s not like one could even argue that they are “tokens”. These are all immensely popular Aboriginal TV hosts.

That attitude has been well documented by both serious sociologists and journalists for hundreds of years, so it’s not like you’re talking out of your arse. :wink:

Why it developed is somewhat more debatable. The best explanation I’ve seen is that the unpredictable nature of Australia’s weather patterns makes long-term planning pointless at best, and downright fatal in many instances. So a cultural emphasis on the present is presumably adaptive to the environment.

That’s something that I can’t agree with at all. We squander resources and fail to to better ourselves or our society for want of consideration of the future quite enough already.

Which is hardly surprising given that they have “little concern for the future”. While that may seem like a good attitude, unfortunately it also translates into having no concern with your future health and no concern with your future economic status. It also translates, all too often, with having no concern with your children’s future. The results of that are sadly predictable: a massive standard of living discrepancy.

Not quite as bad as you say. first indigininous member of parliament in 1971, first indigenous minister (of a state government) in 1980.

As for no aboriginal commercial spokesman, what about Cathy Freeman? Been a rep for many brands.

But yes overall, Australian aborigines have worse representation than blacks in the US.

I grew up in regional Australia so I have some experience with the clash of Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal cultures. For those who are easily offended, stop reading here. I’m not going to go on rants or try to convince anyone of anything, this is just a re-telling of my childhood and teenage years.

My first hand experience is not a favourable one, in my home town the Aboriginal population was predominantly:
[ul]
[li]drinking heavily (metho, goon, other cheap booze) most of the time[/li][li]kids sniffing a lot of petrol, running around covered in dirt, mucus and flies[/li][li]congregating in public parks, harassing the locals[/li][li]Aboriginals verbally abusing (racially) and threatening non-Aboriginals[/li][li]getting into fights, mugging people, committing crimes[/li][li]destroying their own free public housing[/li][li]getting paid more welfare than non-Aboriginals (e.g. AbStudy)[/li][li]getting access to classes, grants or other special treatment that others didn’t[/li][li]seeing that many activists claiming to be Aboriginal had whiter skin than most of the rest of us (many had 1/8th at most and it seemed just like “black supremacists” claiming some unusual strength in their own blood that somehow overpowered the majority non-Aboriginal blood)[/li][li]be told by activists they have a special connection with the land and we’re all bad enviro-rapists[/li][li]being accused of violating the land and environment while seeing Aboriginals claiming to “live traditionally on the land” driving Toyota Hiluxes and Landcruisers to go out spear hunting[/li][li]being accused of violating the land and environment while seeing Aboriginals sell mining rights to the highest bidder to rake in the cash[/li]
[li]be told by activists that the Aboriginal culture is superior to non-Aboriginal culture[/li]
[li]see activists trying to claim tracts of land in major cities and towns[/li]
[li]being told that it’s all our fault[/li][/ul]

As a kid I’ve been personally racially vilified by the aforementioned Aboriginals. So it probably comes as no surprise that me and my mates developed a racist attitude to “Abos” (a term I would now consider a pejorative), it’s hard to sympathise with people you see doing the things listed above and then have “white guilt” hung over our heads as if it was our (personal) fault that the British invaded 200 years ago and mistreated them since.

It’s a vicious cycle.

Having said that, one of my mates at school was Aboriginal, but we didn’t think of him in racist terms - we didn’t assume and attribute all negative behaviours to him simply because he was black. I don’t know if this is what all racism is like but we didn’t suddenly hate people because of black skin, we didn’t hate Africans or Americans, we just hated the Aboriginals who behaved as listed above.

Times changed, I left my home town and moved to the city. My views and attitudes mellowed since I didn’t have any more exposure to that behaviour although at the same time I didn’t exactly meet a whole bunch of Aboriginals who changed my point of view - there weren’t many in the city. I met enough people from walks of life to learn not to assume anything about people based on racial background, but that doesn’t suddenly make me forgive the behaviour I was exposed to growing up.

I recognise my earlier attitudes as racist, and while I probably would be considered racist by some here, I don’t really get into that anymore (other than this thread) because quite simply, I no longer care. When I speak to my parents and old friends who still live there, their racism comes across as cringe-worthy, so I do realise how much I’ve changed.
What do you think about the relationship between Aboriginal Australians and non-Aboriginal Australians?

It’s pretty bad and I don’t see how it’s going to get any better without a lot of change on both sides.
What do you think about our attitudes towards each other?

Largely negative. It may be improving, it’s hard to say. Broadly speaking I think regional communities have bigger racial issues than cities because people in cities don’t experience it first hand. Walk a mile in the other man’s shoes so to speak, and I’m aware of the irony of that statement.
What do you think about how our cultures mix?

I don’t think it mixes enough, but by the same token given that they are 2.5% of the population I think there’s an undue over-emphasis of their culture in tourism and the arts; there’s a lot more to modern Australia’s multicultural society than the Aborigines.
What do you think about how intergrated we are in every day life?

We’re not though, are we? It’s hard to integrate when there’s such huge cultural divides and where the respective populations are located.
What issues do you see/think come up socially and legally?

There is an moral imperative to help, but not because it’s our fault and not because of guilt. The reason to help is because it’s the right thing to do - everyone in our society must achieve the same quality of life regardless of race, gender or sexual orientation. The problem needs to be addressed more in socio-economic terms than racial… I think race is just the obvious visual cue or label.

The ultimate dilemma is how to help without causing harm.

The epidemic of child sexual abuse that triggered The Intervention is a damning indictment of the existing situation. It was pretty clear that the government needed to get involved since the communities’ own inherent social and moral framework was utterly absent. And the recent (last few days) claims by Aboriginal doctors that The Intervention is hurting the children isn’t helping the situation at all.

By the same token, the Stolen Generation was a huge mistake.
What issues do you think the [other](please specify) discusses mostly about us?

I don’t know.

Good call. But since I’m hard pressed thinking of any reps for any products it;s unsurprising that I missed her. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were other Aboriginal sports people in there.

Would it be possible to factually support that? Given that Blacks make up about 2% of the Australian population vs around 15% for the US, is there really less representation? The tiny numbers of Blacks in Australia is always going to make political representation difficult, but in terms of cultural representation I would have thought that Aborigines were overrepresented compared to African-Americans.

:smack:

**What do you know about the relationship between Aboriginal Australians and non-Aboriginal Australians? **
Honestly, not a terrible lot. My assumption is that the relationship between them is similar to those between Americans, Canadians, and their indigenous populations, but worse than either. One presumes that the Aborigines also have problems with poverty and substance abuse that stem from being marginalized by the majority.

What do you know about our attitudes towards each other?
Virtually nothing other than it’s not a racial utopia either. Um…that song “Tie Me Kangaroo Down, Sport” where the singer implies that he kept Aborigines as pets, that’s not reflective of any reality, is it?

How our cultures mix?
I have gotten the impression that the Aborigines are more separated from the majority culture than Native Americans are. We have Native Americans who live on reservations, but even there a lot of them have adopted similar lifestyles as everyone else, using electricity, pickup trucks and so on. Perhaps movies do a poor job of depicting Aboriginal life, but they seem to be shown as keeping to themselves (scorning technology, modern ways etc) to a far greater degree, perhaps in an effort to hold onto their own culture.

How integrated we are in every day life?
I assume not very.

What issues come up socially and legally?
Tribal law vs. federal law? Societal clashes when one side sees the other as doing things that are unacceptable?

What we (we being Aboriginal, or non-Aboriginal) discuss privately about the [other]?
I suppose it depends on the individuals. In the US there is no one standard view that all white people have of Native Americans, nor the other way around. Therefore it seems likely that there’s a sliding scale of racism/tolerance in Australia as well.

1 What do you think about the relationship between Aboriginal Australians and non-Aboriginal Australians?

As far as I know it is not improving.

2 What do you think about our attitudes towards each other?
*
I don’t agree with either of these but: I know people who believe that all Aborigines are alcoholic, violent and handout seeking.
I know people who believe that “whitey” is responsible for every problem Aboriginals face and it is their job to fix it. I have heard both of these opinion from whites and blacks.*

I personally think there are people who are good and those who are not so good and not a few who are pure evil - skin colour makes no difference.

3 What do you think about how our cultures mix?
There are some whites who do not want to mix with aborigines and there are some aborigines who do not what to mix with whites. I am not one of these and am happy to mix with anyone as long as they are not a jerk.

4 What do you think about how integrated we are in every day life?
I think integration is seen as a dirty word. For example: An aboriginal child cannot be fostered by a white foster carer. There are many children in hideous situations because there is a lack of Aboriginal foster carers. Those Aboriginal foster carers also do not have to meet the standards that white Foster carers do.

5 What issues do you see/think come up socially and legally?
Violence, Sexual abuse, Alcohol, petrol/paint sniffing, poverty, poor health care, shortened life spans, crowded accommodation, generations of welfare recipients, deaths in custody, high incarceration rate, reverse discrimination, stereotyping, racism, the stolen generation and other crappy stuff done to them by whites (and hoo boy some of it was seriously bad), education etc…

6 What issues do you think the [other](please specify) discusses mostly about us?
I don’t know

I’d say the belief that this is a problem is more damaging than the actual deaths.

There are only like ten a year, and that includes suicide, natural causes and illness. And going by the commission that was held to discover the cause, the reason an Aborigine was ten times more likely to die in custody (25% of deaths in custody) was because they’re ten times more likely to be in custody in the first place (21% of the prison population).

Here’s what I’ve picked up from reading Steve Taylor’s, The Fall.

“recent research and observation of present-day hunter-gatherers like the Australian Aborigines has shown that in actual fact, the women provided 80 to 90 percent of food - a fact which has led some anthropologists to suggest they should be renamed gatherer-hunters.”

Apparently, they were very peaceful at one time, and any conflicts that did occur hardly ever turned into bloodshed. They didn’t have chiefs or leaders and there were no penalties for crimes. As anthropologist Robert Lawlor wrote, “Beyond the kinship convention, no other law enforcement is required in Aboriginal society.”

There’s loads of other stuff, but I don’t want to keep copying bits from the book. Seems though that as there were estimated to be a half to a million aborigines when Cook first payed a visit, and now there are around 50,000, the non-aboriginals owe them a bit of tolerance.

Since this is about “what I know”, replying without reading other folks’ replies first… nonAussie here…

What do you know about the relationship between Aboriginal Australians and non-Aboriginal Australians?

a) Same species
b) Aboriginals settled continent a heckuva long time ago from southeast Asia (via New Guinea, I think?). non-Abs arrived in modern times (mostly) and took over the place, much as my own European ancestors displaced native folk here in America, and with similar disenfranchising / dehumanizing policies that were not atypical of the era.
c) Consequently lots of distrust and a grievance about it on the part of the abs, and a resentment on the part of some of the non-Abs about reparations, a feeling that they are freeloaders being subsidized etc.

What do you know about our attitudes towards each other?

See above

How our cultures mix?

Badly; the aboriginal culture is probably being thinned out and lost, more with each generation. Some degree of assimilation, probably medium-high, so folk of aboriginal ancestry are becoming part of the dominant culture. They probably get some racist attitudes wherever they work or mingle, of course not from every non-ab but it only takes a few to make it an ongoing experience, yes?

How intergrated we are in every day life?

See above. I don’t know more than that and much of that is guesswork.

What issues come up socially and legally?

More guesswork. Reparations, land ownership, resource management and control, official language and whatnot, aboriginal customs and lifestyle insofar as they might come into contact & conflict with laws and mores of the now-dominant non-aboriginal culture, for the legal. Attitudes as already described for the social.

What we (we being Aboriginal, or non-Aborignal) discuss privately about the [other]

Umm, no clue, really, aside from the usual mixture of loaded stereotypes versus politically correct responses to it among the non-abs.

Not one single group of present day Aborigines obtain the majority of their diet (calories or mass) from traditional foods. Not one. If this indicative is the quality of Taylor’s "research then I suggest you treat his writing with some caution.

Is this a joke? Australian Aborigine societies were (and still are unfortunately) horrendously violent. The pre-contact societies are usually listed in the top 10 most violent cultures in all of human history. Far form being mostly peaceful the facts show that the women suffered horrendous,often crippling, injuries from the men with awful frequency, and something like 10% of the men dies as a direct result of homicide.

That’s hardly evidence of a peaceful society or one in which conflict hardly ever turned to bloodshed.

So how are you defining no penalties for crimes? Because it’s well documented for example that men could beat, cripple or kill their wives for any perceived infraction. It’s also well documented that crimes such as rape were punished with the murder or spearing of the perpetrator. Surely these are ounishments for crime, yes?

Please, do. It seems like a good opportunity to fight some ignorance.

How does that follow?

Why, would you have preferred the children to be abused?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/higher-education/opinion-analysis/dont-let-facts-spoil-the-day/story-e6frgcko-1111115509643

Taking 13 year olds away from their families sounds a little bit sketchy to me, apprentices or no. Am I missing how that’s a justification?