# what do you mean by "Impeachment"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 18, 2017, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-by-impeachment/786947 "2017-05-18T19:50:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-by-impeachment/786947/101 "2017-05-22T15:28:39Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Stealing from an article (about Google and education) in the [NYT yesterday](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/19/opinion/sunday/you-still-need-your-brain.html) … this is a bit > > Yes, there is a context in which “impeach” will be understood to remove from office and when the average person discusses the possibility of Trump being impeached it usually is shorthand for that, for the full process inclusive of conviction and removal from office. In the context of stating “No President has ever been impeached”? That’s meticulously falling off a cliff. I’m not sure I agree with you on this. If the word “successfully” were put in front of “impeached,” the meaning would be perfectly clear. Without that modifier, it’d be unclear to me whether they knew about the multiple definitions or not, or whether they knew about the historical fact of Clinton’s and Johnson’s impeachments. It’s unclear, but it’s not a misuse of the word, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-by-impeachment/786947/102 "2017-05-22T16:16:40Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > You misunderstand me. I was saying that DrDeth was assuming people are incorrect in their understanding of the word impeachment WHEN they use it as shorthand. > > I’m saying they are not misusing the word. They are using shorthand with full understanding of what the word means. I am in now way saying that. In fact, I am saying they are correct when they use Impeachment as shorthand for the entire process. Words change meaning. Words can also have a legal definition, a connotation and a denotation. When people say “I want Trump to be Impeached!” they are correct. When someone says “Well, Clinton was Impeached”- they are using the word correctly in the legal sense, but are being somewhat pedantic. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-by-impeachment/786947/103 "2017-05-22T16:20:02Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Whatever one might think of “Impeach Trump”, the sentence quoted above cries out to be corrected. It insists that people are wrong when they say “Clinton was impeached”. I’m not sure why that poster thinks there is some confusion between “impeach” and “impeachment”, but insisting that “Clinton was not impeached” is a factually correct statement is nonsense. No eye rolling needed when that statement is corrected because not only is it wrong-- it insists that any correction is wrong. Indeed,I worded that poorly. No, not _wrong_. \*Pedantic. \* ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-by-impeachment/786947/104 "2017-05-22T19:16:46Z")
I know it’s wrong, but AFAIAC it means either (a) the whole nine yards - the House votes to impeach, and the Senate, by 2/3 majority, removes the President from office, or (b) the process is far enough along that the President resigns rather than risk the fate of (a). So by my decidedly informal and admittedly incorrect usage, Nixon was impeached, but Clinton wasn’t. And I don’t care about Andrew Johnson one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-by-impeachment/786947/105 "2017-05-22T19:27:04Z")
I am in the “impeachment means it gets to the point where there is a trial in the Senate” camp. The way I read the Constitution, an impeachment is made in the House (Article I, Section 2, fifth paragraph) and tried in the Senate (Article I, Section 3, sixth paragraph: “The Senate shall have the sole power to try all impeachments”); I read that as meaning that it is not an “impeachment” unless it reaches the Senate. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-by-impeachment/786947/106 "2017-05-22T19:32:33Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I am in now way saying that. In fact, I am saying they are correct when they use Impeachment as shorthand for the entire process. > > Words change meaning. Words can also have a legal definition, a connotation and a denotation. > > When people say “I want Trump to be Impeached!” they are correct. > > When someone says “Well, Clinton was Impeached”- they are using the word correctly in the legal sense, but are being somewhat pedantic. I utterly disagree with the last sentence. Words can change in casual usage, but that doesn’t mean the accurate definition is erased. Clinton was impeached. Just because some people use it as shorthand for _a more complex sentence_ does not change the actual meaning of the word. Pedantic means correcting something just for correcting’s sake. If someone argues that CLinton was not impeached, they are actually wrong. Again, just because I say I want someone arrested (as shorthand to mean arrested, tried, and found guilty) does not mean arrested magically begins to mean “found guilty”. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-by-impeachment/786947/107 "2017-05-22T19:34:32Z")
Missing the edit window: my RL friends and I have used the incorrect meaning I mentioned above consistently enough over the years that we understand each other perfectly well. The purpose of language is communication, so it works. Here on the Dope, that would of course be a fail, so with one exception, I’d stick to the official definition here. The one exception is this: when someone cries “Impeach \_\_\_!” whether it’s “Impeach Trump!” now, or “Impeach Earl Warren!” 50 years ago, the likelihood is vanishingly small that that person just wants the House to vote articles of impeachment, but either doesn’t wish the Senate to convict, or doesn’t care one way or the other about the Senate outcome. That person wants the House to vote for impeachment, and wants the Senate to vote to convict. So I figure it’s perfectly clear what I mean when I start an “Impeach Trump Now” thread. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-by-impeachment/786947/108 "2017-05-22T20:16:40Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > I utterly disagree with the last sentence. Words can change in casual usage, but that doesn’t mean the accurate definition is erased. Clinton was impeached. Just because some people use it as shorthand for _a more complex sentence_ does not change the actual meaning of the word. Normally, I’d preface what I’m about to say with an apology for being so pedantic, but in this discussion I think such an apology is unnecessary :). If someone uses it as shorthand for a complex idea, they’re using the word to convey a meaning. That act–and the act of understanding the meaning conveyed–is the only place in the universe where words acquire meaning. So you’re wrong when you say that use in this manner doesn’t change the actual meaning of a word: it 100% does change the actual meaning of the word. What it may not change is the meaning of the word in a technical, or legal, context. If I were a law clerk researching instances of impeachment in order to draft a memo for my boss, I’d certainly not limit myself to cases in which someone was removed from office. But the “accurate” definition changes according to the particular instance of communication. If someone successfully and intentionally conveys a concept through the use of the word, then the “accurate” definition, the “actual” meaning of the word, is that meaning that they successfully conveyed. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-by-impeachment/786947/109 "2017-05-22T21:04:08Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Indeed,I worded that poorly. > > No, not _wrong_. \*Pedantic. \* Neither wrong nor pedantic. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-by-impeachment/786947/110 "2017-05-22T21:20:00Z")
Without reading the thread: I said “other”. Impeachment is like indictment. It is a decision by the House of Representatives to recommend a full trial by the Senate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-by-impeachment/786947.md?page=5)