# What do you mean, I HAVE to sign my credit card?! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2003, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-i-have-to-sign-my-credit-card/164379 "2003-03-26T22:08:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Persephone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecc23a/32.png) [@Persephone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Persephone)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-i-have-to-sign-my-credit-card/164379/41 "2003-03-27T03:21:03Z")
My mom had a weird experience with this recently. She’d gotten a new credit card, but she’d forgotten to sign it. The clerk handling her sale was…well, a little slow on the uptake. She gave my mom her receipt, my mom signed it, and THEN the clerk flipped over my mom’s card to check the signature. Of course, my mom’s sig wasn’t there. So instead of asking for ID…the clerk tells my mom to sign the card. HELLO! You just saw her sign the receipt! OF COURSE whatever she signs on the back of the freaking card is going to match! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![guy\_from\_wpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5e9695/32.png) [@guy\_from\_wpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guy_from_wpa)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-i-have-to-sign-my-credit-card/164379/42 "2003-03-27T03:37:08Z")
* * * ## Thank you, now that I have just those short numerical elements of your billing address, I can now run off a copy of the slip after you leave the store and later order anything I like on the Internet. Being that it’s a check card, you’ll have a hell of a time getting your bank to take off the charges, not to mention all your bounced check hassles - since check cards don’t have the same level of protection as credit cards. This is why I don’t show ID. ## -AmbushBug So you put on YOUR card, ask for ID, and then don’t show it? I put that suggestion there for people who are hell bent on playing games. Let me repeat it again: If everyone would do what they are supposed to do anyhow, you wouldn’t need to be adding notes, asking for ID, playing games. Oh, and most legit companies will not ship orders to addresses other than the billing address without the orderer jumping through a bunch of hoops. Plus, alot of banks are offering the zero liabilty on their debit cards. Check it out. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-i-have-to-sign-my-credit-card/164379/43 "2003-03-27T04:06:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by catsix \* > \*\*Which isn’t good enough for me. If someone steals the card by mugging me or breaking into my house, I’m not about to be penalized anything at all, not even 50, for another person's crime. And yes, I did have it out with a credit card company over someone else using my card. My liabilty was 0. \*\* Run this by me again. You can follow the credit card supplier’s rules and have a maximum liability of $50, with a possibility of negotiating it down to zero. Instead, you prefer to break the rules, thereby upping the maximum liability to the amount of your credit card limit, with a possibility of negotiating this down to zero. Now explain to us again why the second is the better option? ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-i-have-to-sign-my-credit-card/164379/44 "2003-03-27T04:13:28Z")
People are stupid with credit cards. I cannot count the number of times whre I used to work that someone would bring items to the counter, hand me a credit card and then _walk away completely out of sight of their card_ to browse in the store some more. Dumbasses. ---
**Author:** ![guy\_from\_wpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5e9695/32.png) [@guy\_from\_wpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guy_from_wpa)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-i-have-to-sign-my-credit-card/164379/45 "2003-03-27T04:19:03Z")
Or when they leave the card behind. I can’t tell you how many times I called the customer service number on the back of someone’s card to report it, and be told the card was still active. Even after I found a bunch of them in our safe and they had been there for how long. How come no one leaves any fifties laying around like that? ---
**Author:** ![hardygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@hardygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hardygrrl)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-i-have-to-sign-my-credit-card/164379/46 "2003-03-27T04:33:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ashkicker \* > \*\*On the other hand, I still don’t understand the thinking on having the credit card/debit card machine out there for you to run yourself. Like at Walmart. In that case I have run the card and NEVER been asked for id. So what is up with that? If they can accept the slip signed without looking at id or even touching the credit card why can’t the post office just accept your drivers license as proof of who you are and signature? I guess I am still confused about that. \*\* Convience over security. The lines move faster but the store will eat any fraud charges. As for the maximum dollar amount a customer is liable for: [ul] [li]For internet fraud, Visa/Mastercard policy is zero liability. As for American Express and Discover, I don’t know.[/li][li]Other transactions, read your cardmember agreement. Some issuers say zero liability, some say up to fifty dollars _depending on when the fraud is reported_. **Read the cardmember agreement** [/li][/ul] **catsix** , that even applies to you. See, banks have two kinds of fraud. True fraud and “well, I don’t feel like paying my bill so I’ll cry” fraud. That’s why there are policies in place to protect the customer from the former and the bank from the latter. If your cardmember agreement states you can be liable for $50 and you do not follow the policy (ie signing the card/signing an affadavit), legally the bank can charge you the fifty bucks and tell you to chew ass. _Originally posted by guy\_from\_wpa_ > [@](#): > > Here’s a big hint folks–the credit card issuer will be glad to give you a personalized card for your kid, spouse, S.O., what ever and send you the bill. Authorized users, ask for them by name. Word of warning however…if you add an authorized user to the account, **you** are liable for **their charges.** ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-i-have-to-sign-my-credit-card/164379/47 "2003-03-27T05:10:55Z")
Some very good points have been covered here. Let me add just one more piece of good advice. When you go to a restrauant where the card is taken from the table to be processed, do this. When the slip comes back for you to add the tip and sign, before you slip that plastic back into your wallet, take a second and make sure that you got your card back and not some one elses. A guy I worked with went to pay for lunch one day, he pulled out his card and put it on the table. I glanced over and said you are not Mary Whateverthelastnamewas. “HUH?” was his reply So I say “Look at your card numb nuts.” “WTF?” Turned out he had gone to dinner about 10 days before and the waiter had made a mistake and switched cards. It took several phone calls to get that straight. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-i-have-to-sign-my-credit-card/164379/48 "2003-03-27T08:27:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hardygrrl \* > Honestly, there are not that many forgers out there who have the ability to copy your signature off a credit card. They might not be able to fool a trained expert, but do clerks get any instruction on how to compare signatures? My own signature doesn’t look _exactly_ the same every time I sign. How are they supposed to know the difference between a thief and maybe I had too much caffeine and signed my name a little funny? And I rarely see clerks compare signatures anyway. How many times do they actually decline cards for signatures not matching? I’ve never seen it happen. It seems like a pretty ineffective idea to me. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-i-have-to-sign-my-credit-card/164379/49 "2003-03-27T08:40:40Z")
All right. What happens if you’re using someone else’s card? I mean for instance this lawyer at worked needed a posterboard immediately, and there is an Office Depot a couple of blocks from the office (handy!), so she sent the runner. Meanwhile everyone in the office thought of one or two little things they could use from Office Depot–for their desks. So he ended up buying $50 or so worth of stuff, all just little things. The clerk rang it all up and then said, very politely, “Thank you, MOLLY,” to the hulking male six-footer. But the clerk took the card! ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-i-have-to-sign-my-credit-card/164379/50 "2003-03-27T09:05:35Z")
Oops, I left out a critical detail. “Molly” gave the office runner her credit card. Her name is not reallyl Molly but it’s a name never used by a male (never!) and the runner is, quite obviously, male. Cicada ---
**Author:** ![hardygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@hardygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hardygrrl)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-i-have-to-sign-my-credit-card/164379/51 "2003-03-27T12:56:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blowero \* > \*\*They might not be able to fool a trained expert, but do clerks get any instruction on how to compare signatures? My own signature doesn’t look _exactly_ the same every time I sign. How are they supposed to know the difference between a thief and maybe I had too much caffeine and signed my name a little funny? And I rarely see clerks compare signatures anyway. How many times do they actually decline cards for signatures not matching? I’ve never seen it happen. It seems like a pretty ineffective idea to me. \*\* From previous years of retail experience, I can say we had no official training on signature comparsion, but the store I worked at was not exactly a magnet for fraud. Everyone’s signature varies each time they write, but the basic shapes remain the same. We’re not asking the merchants to examine the signature with a microscope, just see that it’s basically the same. That the name is spelled right. When I worked retail, I busted a stolen card by noticing the thief was hesitating before signing. Think about it, when you sign **your** name, it’s a reflex. When you try to sign another name, you will hesitate either to remember the spelling or because it’s not something you do naturally. You don’t have the years of practice that lets you quickly sign your name. ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-i-have-to-sign-my-credit-card/164379/52 "2003-03-27T13:37:48Z")
Because of her poor vision and minimal hand control, my wife has a great deal of trouble signing anything, much less trying to get her signature to fit in that little space on the back of a credit card. I’ve been told that sometimes when she goes shopping with a friend instead of my wife signing the credit slip her friend will sign it for her. AFAIK they’ve never had a clerk question this. It’s also not unusual for us to ask this friend to do some shopping for us and give her my wife’s card. Nobody has ever asked her for ID or questioned her signature. Interestingly enough, I have gotten calls from this card’s security office to verify purchases _I_ made on several occasions; once when I had made two charges at the same store on the same day and once when I made several rather large purchases in one day during a Christmas gift purchasing run. ---
**Author:** ![Fin\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@Fin\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fin_man)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-i-have-to-sign-my-credit-card/164379/53 "2003-03-27T14:22:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bearflag70 \* > \*\*Ideally, the stores where you swipe your own card should ask to see the card and your ID. Either that or verify the PIN on the card electronically. \*\* Home Depot (at least the ones in my area - DC) have a little sign on the card swiping machines telling the customer to keep their card out for the cashier to compare signatures. Of course, they check me only about 50% of the time. And what about the gas stations where you don’t EVER have to interact with an employee. ---
**Author:** ![Gorgon\_Heap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f475e1/32.png) [@Gorgon\_Heap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorgon_Heap)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-i-have-to-sign-my-credit-card/164379/54 "2003-03-27T14:57:47Z")
I have had problems with this too. Well actually _problem_. Only one time has anyone ever asked me to do the verifying thing and they almost wouldn’t let me buy what I wanted to. I signed by stuff. I hand the girl my debit card. She asks for ID. I goggle, get annoyed, and hand her a photo ID. She looks at both, and says, “The signature isn’t the same. We can’t take this.” I almost shot her. Of course the fucking signature isn’t the same! My name is _25 fucking letter long!_ All I do is scribble up and down a bunch of times. The whole thing is idiotic. ID card has my name and face. Debit card has same name. Figure it out you assholes!!! If the ID was fake and the debit card stolen - the card would have been noted as fucking stolen and would not work!! Aaaaarrggghhh!!! ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-i-have-to-sign-my-credit-card/164379/55 "2003-03-27T15:57:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by stypticus \* > \*\*But my comment about the goats being fletched still stands. \*\* How does one put feathers on a goat anyway? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-i-have-to-sign-my-credit-card/164379/56 "2003-03-27T16:02:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gorgon Heap \* > \*\*…If the ID was fake and the debit card stolen - the card would have been noted as fucking stolen and would not work!! > > Aaaaarrggghhh!!! \*\* Stolen cards very often do not get reported immediately. Look at it this way, if your card was stolen, but you didn’t notice for several days, and someone forged an ID with your name, but his picture, then used the stolen card/fake ID combo in the situation you described, would you not be upset? These precautions are in effect for _your_ benefit. Try to remember that. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-i-have-to-sign-my-credit-card/164379/57 "2003-03-27T16:04:44Z")
**Gorgon Heap** , It’s not the clerks fault that you haven’t established any consistency in your signature. If you had been the victim of fraud, I bet you would be screaming about why the clerk approved the transaction when the signatures didn’t match. Also, sometimes cards are used fraudulently before the owner of the card realizes the card is missing and is able to report it. It’s easier to fake photos and put fake names on IDs than it is to accurately forge a signature when a clerk is staring at you. Signature matching is a proper method of secuirty, IMHO. … and on preview, what Q.E.D. said. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-i-have-to-sign-my-credit-card/164379/58 "2003-03-27T16:15:35Z")
> [@](#): > > catsix, that even applies to you. See, banks have two kinds of fraud. How is it fraud to tell them ‘I refuse to pay any portion of a charge made by someone not authorized to use my card, and if you’d like to pursue collection you may speak to my attorney.’? Fraud would indicate that I used deception, which I most certainly never did. Charge not made by me, charge not paid by me. > [@](#): > > legally the bank can charge you the fifty bucks and tell you to chew ass. They could if they wanted to, but then they’d have to sue me, which would be more expensive than $50. They chose wisely to go after the person who put the charge on the account without my permission. I did read the agreement, and it says ‘possible maximum liability of $50’. That indicates that I have every right to tell the bank that issued the card ‘You go right ahead and try to make possibility reality.’ That’s exactly what I did when I found a charge on my bill that I didn’t make or authorize someone else to make, and I never had to pay a cent of that charge. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-i-have-to-sign-my-credit-card/164379/59 "2003-03-27T16:15:36Z")
Since your name is so long, you could probably benefit from changing your signature to a short symbol instead of trying to sign your whole name. I haven’t used my “full” signature in about 3 years since I changed my signature to a symbol that I can draw that is based upon my initials. It’s short, easy, quick, and is easily identifiable as my signature. If anyone tried to fake my signature by signing my full name, it would be easy to spot as a fraud. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-i-have-to-sign-my-credit-card/164379/60 "2003-03-27T18:22:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hardygrrl \* > \*\*From previous years of retail experience, I can say we had no official training on signature comparsion, but the store I worked at was not exactly a magnet for fraud. > > Everyone’s signature varies each time they write, but the basic shapes remain the same. We’re not asking the merchants to examine the signature with a microscope, just see that it’s basically the same. That the name is spelled right. When I worked retail, I busted a stolen card by noticing the thief was hesitating before signing. Think about it, when you sign **your** name, it’s a reflex. When you try to sign another name, you will hesitate either to remember the spelling or because it’s not something you do naturally. You don’t have the years of practice that lets you quickly sign your name. \*\* You work fraud now, right? How often do crooks actually get busted from having their signature compared and having the card declined. Does the clerk confiscate the card in that case? If not, then the thief is free to just go to another store, right? And what about legitimate customers with anomalies in signature or behavior who could be incorrectly identified as thieves, like the two examples posted above? Seems like a lot to ask of clerks with no training to tell the difference between a thief, and a legit customer who has a tic, for example. I would think it’s a lot riding on a very subjective judgment call by a clerk, and doesn’t seem like it would be a very effective deterrent against fraud. Just curious what those in “the biz” think about it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-i-have-to-sign-my-credit-card/164379.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-mean-i-have-to-sign-my-credit-card/164379.md?page=4)