# What do you need to become a country? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 6, 2003, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-need-to-become-a-country/153138 "2003-02-06T04:56:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jb\_007clone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@jb\_007clone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jb_007clone)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-need-to-become-a-country/153138/1 "2003-02-06T04:56:50Z")
I know that you need an army of some sort. How big? I don’t know. But what other specifics do you need to become a country. How big is the vatican’s army? ---
**Author:** ![jb\_007clone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@jb\_007clone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jb_007clone)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-need-to-become-a-country/153138/2 "2003-02-06T04:56:50Z")
I know that you need an army of some sort. How big? I don’t know. But what other specifics do you need to become a country? How big is the vatican’s army? ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-need-to-become-a-country/153138/3 "2003-02-06T05:09:05Z")
Territory that nobody else wants. Then a printing press and you’re in business. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![jb\_007clone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@jb\_007clone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jb_007clone)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-need-to-become-a-country/153138/4 "2003-02-06T05:10:56Z")
Could someone in theory buy an island and get some mercs and call his land a country? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-need-to-become-a-country/153138/5 "2003-02-06T05:26:39Z")
You don’t actually need an army. If you fail to maintain an army, you need neighboring countries that will respect your borders and your sovereignty. Costa Rica has had a constitutional prohibition against maintaining an army since 1948 (although they did employ their “civil guard” to prevent a takeover by disaffected exiles based in Somoza’s Nicaragua in 1955). The Swiss Guards of the Vatican have a fixed roll of 100. Although they are noted as supreme fighting men, they would not be enough to prevent Italy from overrunning the Vatican if Italy ever decided to invade. I doubt that San Marino, Andorra, Liechtenstein, Monaco, or several other nations maintain anything resembling armies. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-need-to-become-a-country/153138/6 "2003-02-06T05:29:28Z")
Territory is the most important thing. This is the second time I’ve answered this question. I’m not about to change my mind. :wally ---
**Author:** ![jb\_007clone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@jb\_007clone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jb_007clone)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-need-to-become-a-country/153138/7 "2003-02-06T05:36:26Z")
So why don’t more rich people start there own country? Wouldn’t there be all sorts of tax exemptions and such? ---
**Author:** ![3trew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/13edae/32.png) [@3trew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3trew)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-need-to-become-a-country/153138/8 "2003-02-06T05:38:34Z")
You need guns. Lots and lots of guns. Enough guns to shoot anybody who tells you you aren’t a country. The Vatican doesn’t have them now, but they used to. Once you’ve kicked around for a while and made some friends, you start signing treaties and stuff, and eventually everybody forgets that you didn’t used to be a country. If you’re lucky, people will use you in place of the Vatican in a post like that one. Donald E. Westlake found a different solution in one of his Dortmunder novels. It consists of opening an embassy and starting to join international bodies. Then you can apply for IMF loans. This is not only cheaper in terms of lives, it saves you from even having to bother with the hassle of having a land mass. Just remember to make it really really unattractive to visitors and auditors. I’m not sure it would work in the real world, but then again what do we really know about Kiribati, Niue, or Vanuatu? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-need-to-become-a-country/153138/9 "2003-02-06T05:41:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Could someone in theory buy an island and get some mercs and call his land a country? You’ve never heard of [Sealand](http://www.sealandgov.com/)? (A story on the [recent events](http://www.therant.info/archives/000031.html).) ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-need-to-become-a-country/153138/10 "2003-02-06T05:41:18Z")
Luxembourg, by law, has 400 infantryman and 24 cavalry. They held off the Germans for 20 minutes with it in June 1940. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-need-to-become-a-country/153138/11 "2003-02-06T05:45:04Z")
> [@](#): > > So why don’t more rich people start there own country? Wouldn’t there be all sorts of tax exemptions and such? You need to be able to find _unclaimed land_ (preferably more than 200 miles from any nation claiming “territorial waters” that extend that far–and it helps if the land can actually support some people. That Roy Bates was able to secure an old anti-aircraft tower in the period before Britain extended its territorial claims was a fluke. I doubt that there are (m)any such opportunities left. ---
**Author:** ![jb\_007clone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@jb\_007clone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jb_007clone)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-need-to-become-a-country/153138/12 "2003-02-06T05:47:19Z")
Couldn’t someone create an artificial island in international waters and use that? ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-need-to-become-a-country/153138/13 "2003-02-06T06:14:56Z")
Gah, **tom** beat me to it. I was just going to mention how Costa Rica 86ed their army a while ago. Oddly enough, the country remains beautiful and peaceful. 🙂 -the costa rican lady ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-need-to-become-a-country/153138/14 "2003-02-06T06:17:51Z")
> [@](#): > > Couldn’t someone create an artificial island in international waters and use that? Someone _could_, provided that someone could find a place where the ocean was shallow enough to support the creation of a new island without bankrupting even Gates or the Sultan of Bahrain in a place that was not subject to storms that would wash it away that had not already been claimed by _somebody_. I suspect that the investment would be rather greater than whatever taxes they could more cheaply buy loopholes to avoid. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-need-to-become-a-country/153138/15 "2003-02-06T06:25:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jb\_007clone \* > Couldn’t someone create an artificial island in international waters and use that? Yes, providing they have the money to build a tower thousands of feet tall with its base on the ocean floor not on the continental shelf. One might get luck and build it on a mid-ocean sea mount. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jb\_007clone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@jb\_007clone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jb_007clone)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-need-to-become-a-country/153138/16 "2003-02-06T06:27:45Z")
Actually it’s funny an episode of Family Guy just came on dealing with this very question. Peter declared his house a new country called “Peteroia” or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Coilean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f6c823/32.png) [@Coilean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coilean)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-need-to-become-a-country/153138/17 "2003-02-06T06:31:53Z")
Whadaya know, there’s an [archive](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_300.html) around here! ---
**Author:** ![Thaumaturge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Thaumaturge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thaumaturge)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-need-to-become-a-country/153138/18 "2003-02-06T06:34:48Z")
Well nothing says that the island _has_ to touch the seafloor. A large enough ship with stabilizers would hardly feel even the largest waves. [Here](http://www.freedomship.com/) Is one such design. However according to their site, it is not an attempt to create another country. However I doubt any country could stop them from doing so without using force. ---
**Author:** ![jb\_007clone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@jb\_007clone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jb_007clone)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-need-to-become-a-country/153138/19 "2003-02-06T06:54:52Z")
The idea I had originally in my head was 3 people. One was the ruler/king/president/whatever, the other two constituted the army. Their territory was an island in international waters. Let’s argue for the hell of it that the closest countries to the island considered it no threat to them and decided to recognize it’s borders. Could this be considered a country? Is an embassy, flag, currency, really necessary? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-need-to-become-a-country/153138/20 "2003-02-06T07:14:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Thaumaturge \* > \*\*Well nothing says that the island _has_ to touch the seafloor. A large enough ship with stabilizers would hardly feel even the largest waves. > > [Here](http://www.freedomship.com/) Is one such design. However according to their site, it is not an attempt to create another country. However I doubt any country could stop them from doing so without using force. \*\* Semi-Hijack Just what prevents Microsoft from building a huge ship, anchoring in international waters, and declaring themselves a sovereign nation? I’ve long wondered why tzaibatsus don’t operate out of fleets of aircraft carriers. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-need-to-become-a-country/153138.md?page=2)