# What do you personally consider to be an "inalienable right"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 19, 2024, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-personally-consider-to-be-an-inalienable-right/1007482 "2024-09-19T18:02:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-personally-consider-to-be-an-inalienable-right/1007482/21 "2024-09-19T22:04:14Z")
Who’s going to stop you? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-personally-consider-to-be-an-inalienable-right/1007482/22 "2024-09-19T22:04:40Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > The other is rights in the theoretical sense; what might be renamed “oughts” as in what someone ought to be accorded. The is-ought problem is a well-known one in philosophy. A rich society certainly _ought_ to provide a certain level of care toward its citizens. But the _is_ is not always possible. One should not confuse the two. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-personally-consider-to-be-an-inalienable-right/1007482/23 "2024-09-19T22:06:45Z")
Rather late, I should clarify that in the OP I was asking for examples, not a broader definition of what makes something an inalienable right, although the latter is a valid and perhaps inevitable related topic. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-personally-consider-to-be-an-inalienable-right/1007482/24 "2024-09-19T22:06:47Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > My point exactly. I don’t have the right to housing on my island, since there’s no one who can provide it but myself. Nor do I have the right to food since the crabs may get it. > > But it’s only nature that can take away what I’ve built, not a government. And nature, at least, is not capricious. So, (sincerely not intending snark and genuinely curious) how are your inalienable rights any more than those of the squirrels and pigeons I see out my back window? ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-personally-consider-to-be-an-inalienable-right/1007482/25 "2024-09-19T22:10:52Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > > [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > > > Any private party or group could go around trying to suppress free speech through violence or intimidation. It would be up to the government to take action to prevent that. > > That’s not what free speech guarantees. If a group of people is suppressing the speech of someone through violence, then that’s assault and we’re talking different rights entirely. But if they’re doing so by not giving the person a platform, that’s entirely legal and expected. > > While we do hope that the government provides protections for life and liberty, that’s not what the Bill of Rights is for at least. It puts restrictions on what the government can do. How much protection they provide is a different question. Yeah, you’re right, forget I said that – for the record, I was not at all referring to providing a platform. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-personally-consider-to-be-an-inalienable-right/1007482/26 "2024-09-19T22:11:07Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > how are your inalienable rights any more than those of the squirrels and pigeons I see out my back window? They aren’t, mostly. That’s the whole point of being inalienable. Or God-given, if you’re inclined to go that way (I’m not, but I don’t think it matters). I’m a little smarter than a typical squirrel so I’d suggest I have a broader range of rights I can make use of, but nevertheless the squirrel can chitter away without interference, just as I can speak freely. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-personally-consider-to-be-an-inalienable-right/1007482/27 "2024-09-19T22:15:58Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > Who’s going to stop you? My own sense of ethics and morals? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-personally-consider-to-be-an-inalienable-right/1007482/28 "2024-09-19T22:28:09Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > That’s not what free speech guarantees. If a group of people is suppressing the speech of someone through violence, then that’s assault and we’re talking different rights entirely. But if they’re doing so by not giving the person a platform, that’s entirely legal and expected. And indeed the controversy over platforms like ~~Twitter~~ X is where you draw the line between “suppressing” and “refusing to give” a platform. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-personally-consider-to-be-an-inalienable-right/1007482/29 "2024-09-19T22:35:15Z")
There are a lot of subtle problems there. If the government asks a platform nicely for someone or some views to be suppressed, is it censorship? Last I checked, that was a “no”, but it probably would be if they were a little less nice about it. And then there are the questions of how to handle speech as it crosses international boundaries with different laws. For the record, my desert island analogy isn’t meant to be absolutely perfect. There is obviously some gray area here. I just find it a useful starting place to reason about. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-personally-consider-to-be-an-inalienable-right/1007482/30 "2024-09-19T23:19:56Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > - The right to do any job one wants as long as the candidate meets valid minimum performance standards, regardless of gender, sexuality. > - The right to a safe, secure, and dependable shelter, regardless of income. > - The right to sufficient quantity and quality of food to maintain health, regardless of income. > - The right to a minimum standard of timely health care, regardless of income. The problem IMO with most of the things in this list is it means a person has a right to the labor of others. If I have a right to food, then why in the heck am I paying for it? Now your response might be, “Well, if you have the money to buy it, you must buy it.” But that doesn’t make sense. If _every_ person has a _right_ to food, then I don’t need to pay for it, dammit - _I have a right to it!_ IMO, inalienable rights must apply equally to **all** , regardless of wealth, and should not require the money or labor of others for them to exist. (One that might be an exception is the right to a “free” lawyer. I’ll have to think about that more.) ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-personally-consider-to-be-an-inalienable-right/1007482/31 "2024-09-19T23:20:06Z")
Fundamentally the right to try to survive as long as one can or desires to and also the right to take their own life are the only true inalienable right we seem to truly have in this world. That has really defined the world on so many levels. Besides that we have societal rights that evolve based on the society and morality. But I would not say they are inalienable, such as a totally feral child can not even begin to expect heath care or food stamps. Those are based on society, removed society and you alienate that right, thus such rights are not inalienable. And on a soul level, those who know me know my faith in Jesus, and in that I do believe there is an inalienable right to salvation after bodily death to eternal life and a way to access it regardless of where you are and what time period you are in and what you have access to. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-personally-consider-to-be-an-inalienable-right/1007482/32 "2024-09-19T23:27:14Z")
Negative rights are inalienable. Positive rights are a fantasy, and can’t be inalienable. Fundamentally, the only rights are the rights to private property and the right to be free of violence. All other rights stem from these. Perhaps we could add a few more, but this is a good start. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-personally-consider-to-be-an-inalienable-right/1007482/33 "2024-09-19T23:34:15Z")
There are no inalienable rights. All rights are created by man and can be taken away by man. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-personally-consider-to-be-an-inalienable-right/1007482/34 "2024-09-19T23:37:17Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > If I have a right to food, then why in the heck am I paying for it? I’m not suggesting that everybody gets free filet mignon, pheasant under glass, or fresh lobster on a regular basis. However, I’ve seen enough broken people, many of whom are mentally ill without care and who are panhandling at intersections regularly. I believe that we as a society have a responsibility to treat them (medically and psychiatrically). Many of them are also homeless because there isn’t enough money devoted to provide shelter that is clean and safe, to the extent that many feel safer living on the street. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-personally-consider-to-be-an-inalienable-right/1007482/35 "2024-09-19T23:58:08Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > There are no inalienable rights. All rights are created by man and can be taken away by man Nonetheless, I presume there are things you would be very unhappy to see taken away by man; that you might even feel _wronged_ by. Such as? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2024, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-personally-consider-to-be-an-inalienable-right/1007482/36 "2024-09-20T00:03:09Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > I’m not suggesting that everybody gets free filet mignon, pheasant under glass, or fresh lobster on a regular basis. And why not? I have letters from my Nutritionist and Naturopath documenting that those three items are the only things I can eat or my inflammation will skyrocket! ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2024, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-personally-consider-to-be-an-inalienable-right/1007482/37 "2024-09-20T00:06:51Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > And why not? I have letters from my Nutritionist and Naturopath documenting that those three items are the only things I can eat or my inflammation will skyrocket! I get it. Try as I might I can’t get my dr to prescribe daily meat-lovers’ pizza and dry red, full bodied wine. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2024, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-personally-consider-to-be-an-inalienable-right/1007482/38 "2024-09-20T00:10:47Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > I’ve seen enough broken people, many of whom are mentally ill without care and who are panhandling at intersections regularly. I believe that we as a society have a responsibility to treat them (medically and psychiatrically). I agree. But that doesn’t mean access to food should be an _inalienable_ right. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2024, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-personally-consider-to-be-an-inalienable-right/1007482/39 "2024-09-20T01:34:18Z")
And there’s a lot of questions about the subjective aspects as well. There are a lot of nutritionally complete and cheap diets that are far from delicious or interesting. Where is the line drawn of nutritionally complete food with adequate calories vs. stuff with variety, etc…? Similarly, where is the line drawn vs. someone’s inalienable right to health care versus being a daredevil or smoking two packs a day? As a taxpayer in this hypothetical state, I’m not very enthusiastic about paying for a bunch of _Jackass_ wannabees or heavy smokers. I think usually that sort of thing is where the arguments ultimately bog down, because there’s always scope creep- someone’s inalienable right to food means that a sack of potatoes, some milk, and some oatmeal, while nutritionally adequate, doesn’t actually fulfill that right. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2024, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-personally-consider-to-be-an-inalienable-right/1007482/40 "2024-09-20T11:44:37Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > I’ll give it a shot: > > 1. The right to do any job one wants as long as the candidate meets valid minimum performance standards, regardless of gender, sexuality. > 2. The right to a safe, secure, and dependable shelter, regardless of income. > 3. The right to sufficient quantity and quality of food to maintain health, regardless of income. > 4. The right to a minimum standard of timely health care, regardless of income. But you understand that all these “rights” need to be provided at the expense of someone else’s labor and resources? THAT’s the problem. You can’t force employers to hire people for jobs they don’t need, even if they are all qualified. Homes, food, and healthcare all require labor and infrastructure as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-personally-consider-to-be-an-inalienable-right/1007482.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-personally-consider-to-be-an-inalienable-right/1007482.md?page=3)