# What do you say to someone who wants to know why they were turned down for a date? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 6, 2011, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-say-to-someone-who-wants-to-know-why-they-were-turned-down-for-a-date/577451 "2011-04-06T21:00:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![TheWhoToTheWhatNow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a88e4f/32.png) [@TheWhoToTheWhatNow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheWhoToTheWhatNow)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-say-to-someone-who-wants-to-know-why-they-were-turned-down-for-a-date/577451/141 "2011-04-12T04:28:30Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Not sure why all of the disagreement with that list. > > I can tell you as a non-PUA, just a regular guy, I have analyzed, identified and corrected in myself some number of those items on that list over the years (mostly before that list was published) and I can tell you it makes a difference. > > It’s pretty simple: people (men and women) are attracted to/like being around confidence. Pretty much everything on that list addresses things related to signaling confidence. > I’ve made concrete mental adjustments to my behavior and attitude in many situations (not just trying to meet women, but anything social where insecurity might creep in) - and I have seen the results first hand. Fuck, thankyou. The list is very common sense. I’m starting to think people just didn’t read it or automatically discard it because it’s PUA linked. - TWTTWN ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-say-to-someone-who-wants-to-know-why-they-were-turned-down-for-a-date/577451/142 "2011-04-12T04:35:56Z")
> [@TheWhoToTheWhatNow](#): > > Been doing it since I was a wee lad typing on BBS chat boards and IRC. Some people pepper in a lot of "lol"s, "roflmao"s, emoticons etc. I’m a light hearted guy, there’s no ulterior motive to it. When I’m an old man I probably won’t type them as much. > > Don’t read into it too much. I’m young and chat online a lot, that’s just how a lot of people write these days. > > - TWTTWN But don’t you think it’s weird that one of the PUAs you linked to went out of his way to say NOT to do this because it makes you look insecure? ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-say-to-someone-who-wants-to-know-why-they-were-turned-down-for-a-date/577451/143 "2011-04-12T04:42:44Z")
I read it, Im sure many others did too. My take would be theres more than one way to show massive insecurity. Otara ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-say-to-someone-who-wants-to-know-why-they-were-turned-down-for-a-date/577451/144 "2011-04-12T04:59:57Z")
> [@j66](#): > > Best and nicest line I ever used was, ‘I’m sorry, but my husband wouldn’t approve.’ Well duh…then don’t tell him 😃 ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-say-to-someone-who-wants-to-know-why-they-were-turned-down-for-a-date/577451/145 "2011-04-12T06:58:03Z")
> [@Otara](#): > > I read it, Im sure many others did too. > > My take would be theres more than one way to show massive insecurity. > > Otara It almost sounds like you are saying that following the tips of that list imply massive insecurity? What about these tips that men teach their sons: Firm handshake Look the person in the eye etc. I’m curious what is it about that list that you think is incorrect regarding social interactions? ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-say-to-someone-who-wants-to-know-why-they-were-turned-down-for-a-date/577451/146 "2011-04-12T07:03:05Z")
> [@TheWhoToTheWhatNow](#): > > Fuck, thankyou. The list is very common sense. I’m starting to think people just didn’t read it or automatically discard it because it’s PUA linked. > > - TWTTWN It is common sense if you first understand that people like confidence (it’s more than just confidence but that word will do). I didn’t always know that to the degree I know it now. I remember being told that at various times in my life but it took some personal data gathering to see first hand - being told and seeing how social interactions are influenced by it first hand are two different things. This topic reminded me of a scene in the movie Fast Times at Ridgemont High, one of the guys is basically giving the nerdy guy these exact tips - so if it’s not common knowledge it certainly isn’t a secret either. ---
**Author:** ![Marc\_Xenos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Marc\_Xenos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marc_Xenos)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-say-to-someone-who-wants-to-know-why-they-were-turned-down-for-a-date/577451/147 "2011-04-12T15:11:23Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > If Tyler Durden’s rules included not laughing at your own jokes, why do you consistently pepper your sentences with “ha ha”? Just for the sake of argument (I haven’t read the rules), let’s call them Guide Lines, not Stop Signs. I don’t imagine any rules involving human interaction are hard and inflexible. Otherwise, you miss the point of “the rules”. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-say-to-someone-who-wants-to-know-why-they-were-turned-down-for-a-date/577451/148 "2011-04-12T15:55:41Z")
> [@TheWhoToTheWhatNow](#): > > haha I guess you’ve got me. The pure logic behind the points must not actually make any sense, the fact that you can observe nerdy guys who are bad with social interactions breaking those points and alpha guys following them naturally in your day to day life, all of my years of experience doing this must have been my imagination, the hundreds of thousands of pages of field reports (which i don’t bother linking because you’ve already said you’d discount them all because they’re obviously all lies despite the fact that you can duplicate the results yourself by leaving your computer chair) from thousands of PUAs who’ve been documenting their experiments and interactions for 10+ years, the consistent going from zero success with women to well above average success with them in a dramatically short period of time, the fact that my buddies and I will go out this weekend and do the exact same thing we’ve been doing for years…all of this is completely irrelevant until it’s in a scientific journal. You could have saved yourself some time here by just saying “You’re right, I have no evidence aside from personal anecdotes.” This is IMHO, so it’s perfectly fine to post personal anecdotes. Where you went wrong was in trying to pretend that you had some kind of actual research backing you up. You said this list was accurate and very thoroughly tested. I didn’t put those words in your mouth. You could have just said “I’ve tried this and it worked for me” or “People I know have had good results with this” and I would not have asked for a cite. > [@](#): > > Spend a few months practicing basic pickup, it doesn’t cost you anything. If I wanted to have sex with a bunch of random strangers, I wouldn’t need to practice anything. I’d just put an ad on Craigslist. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-say-to-someone-who-wants-to-know-why-they-were-turned-down-for-a-date/577451/149 "2011-04-12T16:06:53Z")
**Lamia** , would you say the same thing about throwing a curveball? When I was young, one of my coaches taught me how to throw a curve ball, he didn’t provide scientific research, he just explained it and showed me. Then myself and others practiced and watched the results. It worked and we could see that it worked with each other. Isn’t it possible to have correct knowledge without supporting scientific research? ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-say-to-someone-who-wants-to-know-why-they-were-turned-down-for-a-date/577451/150 "2011-04-12T17:00:12Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Isn’t it possible to have correct knowledge without supporting scientific research? Yes, but it is not possible to have knowledge that has been very thoroughly tested and proven accurate and yet at the same time has not been researched. **TheWhoToTheWhatNow** did not limit himself to a claim that the tips he linked to had worked for him or would work for others, he claimed that they had been very thoroughly tested and found accurate. As I said in my very first post in this thread, this is the sort of thing we expect to have cites for around here. ---
**Author:** ![pbbth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@pbbth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pbbth)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-say-to-someone-who-wants-to-know-why-they-were-turned-down-for-a-date/577451/151 "2011-04-12T17:03:12Z")
> [@Otara](#): > > My take would be theres more than one way to show massive insecurity. You mean like talking about nothing but how you learned to date and now you get laid all the time? ---
**Author:** ![Vihaga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Vihaga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vihaga)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-say-to-someone-who-wants-to-know-why-they-were-turned-down-for-a-date/577451/152 "2011-04-12T17:28:51Z")
> [@pbbth](#): > > You mean like talking about nothing but how you learned to date and now you get laid all the time? Ha! So, let’s suppose this PUA stuff does work. Are we still allowed to find it skeevy? Because rehearsing to pretend you have self-confidence and a lack of insecurity doesn’t seem much different to me than lying by pretending to be wealthy or intellectual or to have any other positive quality that will “pull” (appalling term, btw) girls. Is it a “fake it til you make it” thing? Or is some girl you actually end up in a relationship with going to find out that, once you are done with the lines and techniques, you are actually insecure/nerdy/awward? Kind of a bullshit move wasting her time like that, if that’s how it works. ---
**Author:** ![mlauzon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@mlauzon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlauzon)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-say-to-someone-who-wants-to-know-why-they-were-turned-down-for-a-date/577451/153 "2011-04-12T17:33:45Z")
I wish I could provide an answer for the OP, but I have been turned down for 26 years in a row when asking women out, I don’t even know what a date is like. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-say-to-someone-who-wants-to-know-why-they-were-turned-down-for-a-date/577451/154 "2011-04-12T19:07:44Z")
> [@Vihaga](#): > > Ha! So, let’s suppose this PUA stuff does work. Are we still allowed to find it skeevy? Yes, because intentionally manipulating people to get in their pants is a creepy/asshole thing to do. > [@](#): > > Is it a “fake it til you make it” thing? Or is some girl you actually end up in a relationship with going to find out that, once you are done with the lines and techniques, you are actually insecure/nerdy/awward? Kind of a bullshit move wasting her time like that, if that’s how it works. I certainly am not getting the impression that an actual relationship is anywhere on the radar for our loverly pickup artists. The girl in question will likely find out he’s an asshole when he disappears the next morning and never calls her again. So what she thinks or feels about it is likely not relevant to their goal. I base this impression on the “10 girls in 10 days” thing being presented as something admirable rather than juvenile. I suspect that the guy in question was less than completely honest that all he wanted was a one-night-stand. So, can we please end this inane how-to-manipulate-women-for-fun-and-profit hijack and get back to the original topic, please? ---
**Author:** ![TheWhoToTheWhatNow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a88e4f/32.png) [@TheWhoToTheWhatNow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheWhoToTheWhatNow)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-say-to-someone-who-wants-to-know-why-they-were-turned-down-for-a-date/577451/155 "2011-04-12T19:41:33Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Where you went wrong was in trying to pretend that you had some kind of actual research backing you up. You said this list was accurate and very thoroughly tested. I didn’t put those words in your mouth. You could have just said “I’ve tried this and it worked for me” or “People I know have had good results with this” and I would not have asked for a cite. Jesus, we wasted a page+ of this thread because of the specific wording I used?? I didn’t realize “thoroughly tested” to you means “specifically by the academic community” since I didn’t say “these are very thoroughly tested by the academic community.” You didn’t get from the start that I meant the combined consensus from a ton of people trying it when I said pretty much that? My apologies to the thread for the completely pointless hijack then. I didn’t realize anyone would be that anal about the wording (when again I never said it was tested by academics). It’s like I said chocolate ice cream is definately good and you asked me for a cite on that…why didn’t you just say “I’m attaching “by academics” to your thoroughly tested sentence” so I could have said a page ago “that’s not what I said”? > [@pbbth](#): > > You mean like talking about nothing but how you learned to date and now you get laid all the time? 🙂 Only interest I have in posting on this board is the dating/pickup/relationships threads. I could talk about other subjects, but I have friends for that and attraction is something I’ve seen a ton of bad advice on here about in the past. > [@Vihaga](#): > > Is it a “fake it til you make it” thing? Or is some girl you actually end up in a relationship with going to find out that, once you are done with the lines and techniques, you are actually insecure/nerdy/awward? Kind of a bullshit move wasting her time like that, if that’s how it works. Agreed! Fortunately that’s not how it works: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13618057&postcount=614](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13618057&postcount=614) > [@Kaio](#): > > Yes, because intentionally manipulating people to get in their pants is a creepy/asshole thing to do. If you’re a guy, have you ever bought a girl flowers? Been extra nice to her? Gotten a haircut or put on a nice shirt? Or if you’re a girl have you ever worn make-up? A push-up bra? Styled your hair? Well bad news, you must be a creepy asshole! 😃 > [@Kaio](#): > > I certainly am not getting the impression that an actual relationship is anywhere on the radar for our loverly pickup artists. The girl in question will likely find out he’s an asshole when he disappears the next morning and never calls her again. Fortunately, that’s not how it works: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13543696&postcount=254](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13543696&postcount=254) (skip down to where I respond to “I’ve found anonymous or impulsive sex to be distinctly unsatisfying” if you’re actually interested in understanding instead of sticking to believing in stereotypes) > [@Kaio](#): > > I base this impression on the “10 girls in 10 days” thing being presented as something admirable rather than juvenile. I suspect that the guy in question was less than completely honest that all he wanted was a one-night-stand. You suspect that because it’s outside of your reality that a guy can be honest and get laid, or that there are girls out there who want one-night-stands. My buddy and I are very honest about our intentions and don’t lead on girls who want relationships. If someday we choose to settle down into relationships, then we will. > [@Kaio](#): > > So, can we please end this inane how-to-manipulate-women-for-fun-and-profit hijack and get back to the original topic, please? Works for me, shit. Like I say, my bad, I didn’t realize the “by the academic community” was magically implied. Like RaftPeople’s example, the technique for throwing a curveball is very accurate and thoroughly tested by guys throwing curveballs, I wouldn’t begin to expect someone to have to provide 3 academic reports on it…but then, I AM new to posting here. 😛 - TWTTWN ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-say-to-someone-who-wants-to-know-why-they-were-turned-down-for-a-date/577451/156 "2011-04-13T00:36:50Z")
> [@TheWhoToTheWhatNow](#): > > Jesus, we wasted a page+ of this thread because of the specific wording I used?? I’ve been very clear from the beginning about the exact claim I was asking you to support. You’re the one who decided to drag this out with a bunch of lengthy posts proselytizing about the pickup movement. > [@Kaio](#): > > So, can we please end this inane how-to-manipulate-women-for-fun-and-profit hijack and get back to the original topic, please? I’d be happy for the above to be my last word on the subject. Speaking of the OP, although I said I don’t think anyone but a close friend is entitled to an explanation, if there’s a reason you _couldn’t_ date the other person then it might be nice to let them know. For example, if you’re already in a serious relationship then “I’m seeing someone” may be easier on the other person’s feelings as well as more likely to get them to buzz off than “Sorry, I’m just not interested.” On the other hand, even “I’m married”, “I’m gay”, or “I’m a nun” isn’t enough to convince some people to drop it. I also don’t think anyone is obligated to discuss their personal business with people they don’t know well. “Thanks, but I’m gay” could also lead to an unpleasant situation if the other person/environment isn’t gay-friendly. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-say-to-someone-who-wants-to-know-why-they-were-turned-down-for-a-date/577451/157 "2011-04-13T06:21:09Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > …Much of it is also, frankly, ridiculous. > [@Lamia](#): > > You’re the one who decided to drag this out with a bunch of lengthy posts proselytizing about the pickup movement. I detect an irrational negative reaction on your part to that list. Your posts do not come across as an unbiased observer analyzing human social interaction, but rather as a fairly strong emotional reaction. I’m curious, do you know why that list bothers you? If so would you share? (These are serious questions, I like to analyze my own biases and feelings and I am curious if others are aware of their own internal workings also. It’s fun to de-emotionalize something and step back and analyze what is going on, it can feel liberating) ---
**Author:** ![Arrendajo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Arrendajo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arrendajo)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-say-to-someone-who-wants-to-know-why-they-were-turned-down-for-a-date/577451/158 "2011-04-13T06:23:10Z")
> [@mlauzon](#): > > I wish I could provide an answer for the OP, but I have been turned down for 26 years in a row when asking women out, I don’t even know what a date is like. Fer real? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-say-to-someone-who-wants-to-know-why-they-were-turned-down-for-a-date/577451.md?page=7)