# What do you think about recording sex sessions? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 14, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-recording-sex-sessions/567602 "2011-01-14T15:13:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-recording-sex-sessions/567602/182 "2011-01-17T05:14:57Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > As has been repeatedly been pointed out, the answer to that question is “a woman”. One more time; the problem is the lopsided favoring of women when it comes to such accusations, not any particular woman. There’s no identifiable group of women that can be avoided to stay safe. Jesus Christ – you have more issues than _National Geographic_. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-recording-sex-sessions/567602/183 "2011-01-17T05:21:30Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Jesus Christ – you have more issues than _National Geographic_. Another non-answer. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-recording-sex-sessions/567602/184 "2011-01-17T05:31:02Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Another non-answer. Non-answer to what – that you’re an overly paranoid misogynist? That you pretty much insulted all women? What the hell do you want me to say? There’s no “answer” to such incredible nonsense. (But how about the flip-side? A woman secretly video-taping HER sexual relations, so SHE has proof if she’s raped?) ---
**Author:** ![fuzzypickles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fuzzypickles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzypickles)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-recording-sex-sessions/567602/185 "2011-01-17T06:01:26Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Non-answer to what – that you’re an overly paranoid misogynist? That you pretty much insulted all women? What the hell do you want me to say? Hey man, give **Der Trihs** a break – he still lives with his mother. That would make any red-blooded male a tad bit misogynistic. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-recording-sex-sessions/567602/186 "2011-01-17T15:09:30Z")
Serious question for **Der Trihs** : have you ever actually been in the position of “falsely accused of rape”? I have. It didn’t even go to the prosecutor, let alone to trial–the only evidence was “he said, she said”, and the investigating officer determined her story was not credible. I wasn’t even so much as arrested, just asked to give a statement. On that particular college campus, there are about 20-25 reported rapes and sexual assaults per year, for a student population of 50,000+. Conservatively, that means that on average about 0.12% of women will report a sexual assault or rape per year. Given that every “study” on false rape accusations that I’ve seen has said they were more prevalent on college campuses, I’d say your odds are pretty good. Personally, I think it depends a LOT on jurisdiction and the local specifics. I also think, in light of the back-of-the-envelope numbers above, that you can’t justify the ethical breach required to film-without-consent based on a rational risk assessment. Frankly, I’d say the same to a woman who filmed-without-consent in order to increase her chances of having evidence that she was raped. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-recording-sex-sessions/567602/187 "2011-01-17T17:31:25Z")
On a purely pragmatic note, do you _honestly_ think it’s going to help your case if you secretly record your whoopee sessions and then present the video clips at your trial? After all, the putative victim can always claim that the rape occurred afterwards, and that you turned the camera off during that time. If anything, the judge and jury would be less inclined to believe you, simply because you are the type who would videotape naked people without their consent. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-recording-sex-sessions/567602/188 "2011-01-17T17:39:03Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Smart. But everytime I do that, the reporter wants to join in, and that just spoils the mood something terrible. You need a better looking reporter… ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-recording-sex-sessions/567602/189 "2011-01-17T18:00:07Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Serious question for **Der Trihs** : have you ever actually been in the position of “falsely accused of rape”? > > I have. It didn’t even go to the prosecutor, let alone to trial–the only evidence was “he said, she said”, and the investigating officer determined her story was not credible. I wasn’t even so much as arrested, just asked to give a statement. > > On that particular college campus, there are about 20-25 reported rapes and sexual assaults per year, for a student population of 50,000+. Conservatively, that means that on average about 0.12% of women will report a sexual assault or rape per year. Given that every “study” on false rape accusations that I’ve seen has said they were more prevalent on college campuses, I’d say your odds are pretty good. > > Personally, I think it depends a LOT on jurisdiction and the local specifics. I also think, in light of the back-of-the-envelope numbers above, that you can’t justify the ethical breach required to film-without-consent based on a rational risk assessment. Frankly, I’d say the same to a woman who filmed-without-consent in order to increase her chances of having evidence that she was raped. Another personal anecdote: I have too. Like you, I wasn’t arrested but it did go to an arraignment. Luckily for me, it didn’t go to trial as the charge was dropped when she failed to appear. The worst thing? Telling my Dad to come to court with me about this crazy broad (whom I never slept, kissed, or rubbed) so I didn’t go to the pokey. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-recording-sex-sessions/567602/190 "2011-01-17T18:02:28Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > I don’t see how it violates her privacy if neither she nor anyone else ever views it. I would agree, but the problem is that, at the time of taping, there’s no way to guarantee that it no one else will ever view it. Even if the man in this scenario has the purest of intentions going in – to videotape purely as a failsafe against false accusations, and never to share the video with a third party for any other reason – I take it as given that the video is still far, far more likely to find it’s way out into the world (to a small degree or a larger one) than to be useful as a hedge against prosecution. Therefore, since you can’t be sure that \*in the future \*you will have both the ability and the inclination to keep the tape private – even if you sincerely intend for the tape never to be viewed by anyone else at the time of recording – making the tape harms the woman _whether or not it is ever shared_: the recording imposes harm equity upon the woman. (And this without her knowledge, presumably against her will, and for the sole purpose of covering your own ass – in a very meaningful sense, you’re _stealing_ from her by surreptitiously pilfering equity in her future happiness in order to bolster your equity in _your own_future happiness.) ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-recording-sex-sessions/567602/191 "2011-01-17T18:39:15Z")
We can reasonably restrict activity that creates the potential for harm (or greater harm). So, even if we concede that surreptitiously videotaping is not itself inherently a harm because there’s no certainty anyone else will ever see it (I’m not sold on that, but let’s grant it for the moment), there’s likewise no certainty that no one else will _not_ see it. Whatever the video-taper’s intentions, shit happens. If we can all agree that it’s immoral to make public a videotape of someone having sex when that person has not agreed, then it becomes a question of whether or not creating a risk that this could occur is immoral, something decent people ought not to do. I would argue strongly that this risk is not something you can decide for someone else. No one has the right to make that decision (to assume that risk) for someone else. The impact on your chances of getting laid with zero risk for a subsequent false accusation doesn’t change that. It’s not your choice. It is axiomatic for me. I see this argument as similar to DUI laws. You are not doing something illegal only if somebody gets hurt. You don’t have the legal right (or moral right, I would assert) to create that risk for others, and it doesn’t matter if you’ve driven drunk a thousand times before without anyone getting hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-recording-sex-sessions/567602/192 "2011-01-17T20:39:43Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > On a purely pragmatic note, do you _honestly_ think it’s going to help your case if you secretly record your whoopee sessions and then present the video clips at your trial? After all, the putative victim can always claim that the rape occurred afterwards, and that you turned the camera off during that time. If anything, the judge and jury would be less inclined to believe you, simply because you are the type who would videotape naked people without their consent. The video would have a time stamp, and we’re talking about cameras that run more or less non-stop. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-recording-sex-sessions/567602/193 "2011-01-17T23:03:16Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > On a purely pragmatic note, do you _honestly_ think it’s going to help your case if you secretly record your whoopee sessions and then present the video clips at your trial? After all, the putative victim can always claim that the rape occurred afterwards, and that you turned the camera off during that time. If anything, the judge and jury would be less inclined to believe you, simply because you are the type who would videotape naked people without their consent. Since you left the cameras on, you could just show that. And BTW now she’s changing her story. Remember that they don’t stop recording. Also remember that you are not deliberately recording the sex: it just happens to be captured by the security camera. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-recording-sex-sessions/567602/194 "2011-01-17T23:18:42Z")
**Stratocaster** , you and **VarlosZ** both bring up interesting points. I’m not certain that I buy the idea of Harm equity, but I CAN see the creation of risk to another being an ethical wrong in and of itself. I’m not certain there is a good comparison to be made because in the real world, most risky behaviour we restrict has\* physical \*consequences. Someone isn’t embarrassed, they die; or lose a limb. Regardless I DO see that the creation of risk to another without their consent could be ethically wrong. The question here, is : Is that creation of risk, without other nefarious results in mind, in and of itself enough to: 1. Counteract and overcome the assumption of risk on the part of the taper? 2. Considering that the taping is incidental and not intentional does it make a difference ethically? 3. Amount to enough of an ethical breach to make serious commentary on the character of the taper other than to call them selfish and paranoid? I would argue that any risk _in potentia_ is a fairly small and inconsequential one when collected in the manner of the OP. The intent of the collector, and the lack of any real world consequences make it very minor indeed. I’m not certain I can call it truly unethical. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-recording-sex-sessions/567602/195 "2011-01-18T01:05:40Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No, but they want sex just like men do. So celibacy isn’t a solution for the larger problem, it just ensures everyone is unhappy. And just as important it isn’t a “solution” most people will accept so it’s useless. It’s the gender-relations equivalent of abstinence-only sex education. …wait. You’re not seriously proposing that a woman who doesn’t consent to being filmed\* wouldn’t be able to find a non-deviant sexual partner? And even if so, your “Well, she wouldn’t get sex anyway, so I’m just solving her celibacy problem for her” solution _still_ removes her choices. There’s no two ways about this: if you film her without her permission, you’re taking away her right to chose/consent. And that’s creepy as fuck. \*Filmed for the guy’s protection, not filmed 'cause it’s fun and naught. You know what I mean. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-recording-sex-sessions/567602/196 "2011-01-18T05:43:57Z")
Just out of curiosity, **Der Trihs** – is there ANYONE you trust? ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-recording-sex-sessions/567602/197 "2011-01-18T11:09:39Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > There’s no identifiable group of women that can be avoided to stay safe. Just noting that this is also true in reverse - there’s no identifiable group of men that women can avoid to stay safe from rape. For some reason that’s considered misandry while **Der Trihs** ’s observation is “precaution”, of course. ---
**Author:** ![cedman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cedman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cedman)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-recording-sex-sessions/567602/198 "2011-01-28T12:38:03Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And - again - I said a solution besides celibacy, lying or foolhardiness on the part of the man. You’re just repeating your non-solution with more sexual insults. TRANSLATION ALERT!!! What Der is saying here is… Offer a solution that STILL allows me to lie and sexually humiliate women, because, you know, that celibacy and lying stuff keeps me from getting what I want. Really, come up with something that I can’t ignore that really isn’t a solution, I dare ya! I TRIPLE DOG dare ya! _sniffle_ ---
**Author:** ![cedman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cedman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cedman)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-recording-sex-sessions/567602/199 "2011-01-28T12:52:55Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > How so? Demonstrate that you can be wronged while being totally unaware of the “wrong” done you. Perception is everything. I can demonstarte that… Someone gets your financial information and uses it to steal your identity. This goes on for several years before being discovered. (This is the most typical identity theft situation). NOW, TODAY you discover the fraud. Since you were unaware that the theft had taken place PREVIOUSLY, you have not been harmed until TODAY, so the thief is not liable for the theft PREVIOUS to you becoming aware of the situation. He/she apoligizes and promises not to continue stealing and that he/she will never do this to you again. He gets off scot free but you are still liable for the debt incured by the theft. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-recording-sex-sessions/567602/200 "2013-10-27T18:27:05Z")
I’m bumping this because a woman has been jailed after she [maliciously accused a man of raping her](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2477790/Young-mother-jailed-making-false-rape-claims-hours-getting-drunk-sleeping-friends-partner.html) and he proved his innocence because he had recorded it. > [@Daily Mail](#): > > Ashleigh Loder, 25, from Bideford, Devon, told police she had been raped in an alley. When tests disproved her story she accused a man she willingly slept with. The man, her friend’s partner, only proved his innocence because he filmed the encounter on his mobile phone. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-recording-sex-sessions/567602/201 "2013-10-27T20:45:03Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Which is why lawyers advise men that they shouldn’t engage in bondage games with a woman even if she consents, he’s leaving himself open to charges. They do? Do you have a source for this? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-recording-sex-sessions/567602.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-recording-sex-sessions/567602.md?page=11)