# What do you think about year around schooling? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 26, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-year-around-schooling/823558 "2018-10-26T19:15:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-year-around-schooling/823558/41 "2018-10-30T18:33:20Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > It would reek havoc on working parents. When one’s child(ren) can be in camp for 8 or 9 weeks of 10 or 11 that they’re off from school that means only a week or so required to be out of the office for vacation. What would they do when kids are off for multiple three week breaks throughout the year? Yes, that would indeed wreak havoc on parents who could reliably get enough vacation time together for one three-week trip but not for anything like four two-week periods or whatever the new schedule would create, _and_ who would have trouble affording childcare for those periods. > [@](#): > > It would also mean unproductive ‘learning’ time or worse, emergency cancellations when we get a heat wave in an unairconditioned brick & stone building w/o even good ventilation. Yes, the nearby big city school district cancelled classes multiple days in September, the first week of school because of an unusual late heat wave. That reeks havoc on parents work (& income) & businesses productivity when a number of employees need to leave early. I think this is one of those It Shouldn’t Happen, And Therefore Won’t scenarios: Something a certain type of person thinks they can disprove by arguing that schools _should_ have adequate and reliable A/C, and anyone who’s arguing that they, in practice, _don’t_ is arguing that they _shouldn’t_ and is, therefore, a horrible person we should all ignore. There’s a philosophical injunction against trying to create an Ought from an Is. There is no corresponding injunction against trying to create an Is from an Ought. Probably because the philosophers thought nobody would be stupid enough to try. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-year-around-schooling/823558/42 "2018-10-30T18:53:25Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > I think this is one of those It Shouldn’t Happen, And Therefore Won’t scenarios: Something a certain type of person thinks they can disprove by arguing that schools _should_ have adequate and reliable A/C, and anyone who’s arguing that they, in practice, _don’t_ is arguing that they _shouldn’t_ and is, therefore, a horrible person we should all ignore. > > There’s a philosophical injunction against trying to create an Ought from an Is. There is no corresponding injunction against trying to create an Is from an Ought. Probably because the philosophers thought nobody would be stupid enough to try. …What? Who’s making that argument? ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-year-around-schooling/823558/43 "2018-10-30T18:59:47Z")
We have a couple of year-round schools through 8th grade in my area. The people who love it the most are the local faculty who can leverage the longer winter break for family trips as the professors also have more time “off” (off in the sense that they don’t have meetings or classes). As a Scout leader it is a bit of a pain for scheduling summer camp and other high adventure treks to fit between the end of year-round, and the beginning of fall activities for the older Scouts. Putting everyone on this would require all of the extra curricular providers to change their model to match, and in the transition might rob kids of some fulfilling activities. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-year-around-schooling/823558/44 "2018-10-30T19:50:42Z")
So reading back on this thread, it doesnt sound like most are in favor of it. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-year-around-schooling/823558/45 "2018-10-30T19:57:25Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > So reading back on this thread, it doesnt sound like most are in favor of it. It could just mean that the few people that are opposed to it are violently opposed to it and are more likely to post. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-year-around-schooling/823558/46 "2018-10-30T21:14:57Z")
as I said earlier we tried it and there wasn’t enough improvement to make the added costs and scheduling hassles worth it they were going to have the hs district start the year I started hs but due to accounting errors they discovered they owed the millions they thought was surplus and by the time they had the money the idea had passed ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-year-around-schooling/823558/47 "2018-10-30T21:45:44Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > So reading back on this thread, it doesn’t sound like most are in favor of it. I’m in favor of it, but then again I had enough summer school classes\* to know that it doesn’t kill a person. Students would be fine, families would be fine. (Teachers and administrators might be boned, for all I know.) - mostly to get ahead - I took 5 1/2 years of math during the four years I had of high school. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-year-around-schooling/823558/48 "2018-10-30T22:07:58Z")
I’m against it: 1. Long summer breaks are just too important to lose. I’m thinking of summer camps where some kids go for several weeks or some kids go to activities like day camps. 2. Some kids work summer jobs. 3. Teachers need the time to take classes for accreditation. 4. Some kids take summer school which can allow them to take more classes during the year or makeup classes they might have failed. 5. Some schools lack air conditioning and even if they do, AC is very expensive. Around here they will have limited AC for summer school. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-year-around-schooling/823558/49 "2018-10-31T02:28:58Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I’m against it: > > 1. Long summer breaks are just too important to lose. I’m thinking of summer camps where some kids go for several weeks or some kids go to activities like day camps. Few kids go to summer camps longer than 4 weeks. You can still have summer camps. Plus you could have winter camps (ski camp, for example) and spring camp (garden camp) and fall camp (harvest camp). Summer camp businesses would have fewer customers at a time, but with staggered schedules, they could stay open year-round, not needing temp workers as much. > [@](#): > > 1. Some kids work summer jobs. > > 2. Teachers need the time to take classes for accreditation. > > 3. Some kids take summer school which can allow them to take more classes during the year or makeup classes they might have failed. All these institutions could adapt. Summer jobs could become shorter stints. Accreditation could occur during breaks. Summer school could become makeup school. > [@](#): > > 1. Some schools lack air conditioning and even if they do, AC is very expensive. Around here they will have limited AC for summer school. Okay, sure. But here in NC, for example, schools are already in session in August, so a lack of air conditioning is already a big problem that wouldn’t get that much bigger by being in session in July. And those districts that don’t have air conditioning? They wouldn’t need to go year-round. If the educational benefits are there, then we need to prioritize realizing those benefits, not throw our hands up at the first HVAC issue that arises. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-year-around-schooling/823558/50 "2018-10-31T12:18:37Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Few kids go to summer camps longer than 4 weeks. You can still have summer camps. Plus you could have winter camps (ski camp, for example) and spring camp (garden camp) and fall camp (harvest camp). Summer camp businesses would have fewer customers at a time, but with staggered schedules, they could stay open year-round, not needing temp workers as much. > > All these institutions could adapt. Summer jobs could become shorter stints. Accreditation could occur during breaks. Summer school could become makeup school. > > Okay, sure. But here in NC, for example, schools are already in session in August, so a lack of air conditioning is already a big problem that wouldn’t get that much bigger by being in session in July. And those districts that don’t have air conditioning? They wouldn’t need to go year-round. > > If the educational benefits are there, then we need to prioritize realizing those benefits, not throw our hands up at the first HVAC issue that arises. Those are all great points. I especially like the idea about how summer camps could adapt. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-year-around-schooling/823558/51 "2018-10-31T12:34:03Z")
As I mentioned, we had year round school for a brief period when I was a kid in VA. I found this paper on the experience as well as in some other jurisdictions. It found that year round schools were not cost effective, nor providing an improved learning environment for kids: > [@](#): > > Recent studies suggest that year-round schools do not improve education. Shifting days of attendance does not address problems such as lack of parent involvement and the need for restructured curricula, continued education for teachers, and improved teaching methods. Three large urban school districts (Los Angeles; Houston; and Prince William County, Virginia) experimenting with year-round education found no significant positive effects on academic achievement. In two other districts (Lodi, California, and Orange County, Florida), other factors may account for increased student achievement. Los Angeles and Houston also found that year-round schools only temporarily relieved their overcrowding problems. Many districts are finding that year-round schools are not cost-effective to operate unless the student population substantially exceeds traditional school capacity. Although building costs can be temporarily avoided, there are increased expenses for air conditioning, maintenance, and staff salaries. Additional disadvantages include administrative difficulties, adjustment problems, inconvenience, decreased teacher development and student employment opportunities, and deleterious effects on community businesses. A resource list is appended > **[ERIC - ED353658 - Year-Round Schools May Not Be the Answer., 1992-Nov-9](https://eric.ed.gov/?id=ED353658)** > > Year-round schools operate 12 months rather than the traditional 9- or 10-month schedule. On a multitrack year-round schedule, attendance is staggered so that some students are on vacation while others attend school the usual number of days (about... ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-year-around-schooling/823558/52 "2018-10-31T13:02:34Z")
> [@Macca26](#): > > As a child I hated the concept of year round school, because I salivated for my two and a half month break from “prison”… I feel and felt the same way, while week and a half breaks were great (about as long as they got, occasionally) and my parents would sometimes extend them to 2 full weeks for vacations, it was not the so longed for freedom that summer provided, a time to forget one is a student, and just be a child. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-year-around-schooling/823558/53 "2018-10-31T13:17:21Z")
The German school year makes sense to me. They only get 6 weeks off in summer, but more evenly dispersed one week breaks throughout the year. And I believe 2 full weeks at Christmas/New Year. As a kid, of course, I would have hated the idea of not having my three full months of summer break. ---
**Author:** ![Lic\_Marcos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Lic\_Marcos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lic_Marcos)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-year-around-schooling/823558/54 "2020-03-30T06:54:46Z")
How much on jobs, travel, summer school, goofing off? ---
**Author:** ![CelticKnot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/celticknot/32/3392_2.png) [@CelticKnot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CelticKnot)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-year-around-schooling/823558/55 "2020-03-30T10:56:36Z")
All of the posts talking about family vacations seem way off-base. As **Hermitian** stated, there aren’t many people planning month-long vacations anyway. And the notion that vacations are only ever taken during school breaks is nonsense. Every school I have ever worked at had families take their kids for extended vacations in the middle of the school year, and the teachers had to make up work packets for their students to take with them (as if that was effective instruction). Even Title I schools where there isn’t much money had this happen because families often went away to visit family in other places, whether cities, states, or countries. Many of the objections to this idea stem more from human resistance to change than anything else. Having been in schools since I was 4 years old (a long time), I think the US education system needs to be completely rebuilt, but fat chance of that happening. Even New Orleans stuck with the traditional, failing model. Placing children in classes based on age rather than ability leads to teaching to the middle and underserving or neglecting lower and higher ability students; Letter grades are thoroughly inadequate for describing student progress; 5 and 6-year-old boys are unsuited for the current model of schooling, and by the time they are old enough to sit and work, they are often turned off by the process and too-frequently medicated. No one wants to think about the money that would be needed to make schooling work for more children, or the power that would need to be stripped from certain educational entities. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-about-year-around-schooling/823558.md?page=2)