# What do you think are acceptable exit conditions for \[the Ukraine\] war? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [February 22, 2023, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-are-acceptable-exit-conditions-for-the-ukraine-war/980189 "2023-02-22T01:41:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2023, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-are-acceptable-exit-conditions-for-the-ukraine-war/980189/323 "2023-02-28T19:02:15Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > What market is there for tank or aircraft parts, other countries? Joe Doe’s - like me … I distintly recall buying a Mig-29 board clock in the early 1990ies on a street corner … I still have it - just turned towards the wall, as I learned the luminescence is somewhat radioactive [![](https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/vecAAOSwXclji1nm/s-l500.png) ](https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/vecAAOSwXclji1nm/s-l500.png) (just to be clear - I am aware that this clock might never have been inside a Mig-29 … and rather was an overproduction of Plojot Plant Nr 122. in 1988 or so) case in point: if your country colapses, you lose your army job and can get pennies to the dollar for selling “whatever”, then a lot of russians will be selling “whatever”. > [@Miller](#): > > All the countries that bought Russian military hardware also need regular supplies of replacement parts to keep the hardware running. lot of the stuff also works on commercial (eastern block) trucks … or might be “made to fit” ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2023, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-are-acceptable-exit-conditions-for-the-ukraine-war/980189/324 "2023-02-28T19:07:38Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > I do not volunteer to go say and do the wrong thing (in Russia) so that I can report back what happens. However, various sources ([e.g.](https://www.comparitech.com/vpn-privacy/the-worlds-most-surveilled-cities/)) report what is openly admitted to be a rough estimate of \>200k surveillance cameras in Moscow, a respectable number. We can learn something by interviewing actual Russians, though. Even if it is paranoia, many people believe this stuff. So I was told that the claim of 200k cameras in Moscow is seriously out of date, and that there are over 400k surveillance cameras in the Metro system alone. Every bus has 5 cameras, 3 on the inside and 2 on the outside. These are constantly streaming over the Internet and monitored, not by tired secret policemen, but by Chinese face-recognition software. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2023, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-are-acceptable-exit-conditions-for-the-ukraine-war/980189/325 "2023-02-28T19:24:39Z")
So, has the KGB had your name on a list? Do they have it now? Boris Badenov: “Natasha! Have found missing clock!” ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2023, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-are-acceptable-exit-conditions-for-the-ukraine-war/980189/326 "2023-02-28T19:45:52Z")
Acceptable exit conditions for ending the war in my opinion should include: - Russian forces vacate all territory taken from Ukraine since 2014 - Ukraine may join whatever international defensive alliances it sees fit to join - The return of all Ukrainian citizens moved into Russia involuntarily - Russians accused of war crimes that are in Ukrainian custody be shipped to the Hague for trial ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2023, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-are-acceptable-exit-conditions-for-the-ukraine-war/980189/327 "2023-02-28T22:58:18Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > Russians accused of war crimes that are in Ukrainian custody be shipped to the Hague for trial Rather than back to Russia? Why so lenient? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2023, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-are-acceptable-exit-conditions-for-the-ukraine-war/980189/328 "2023-02-28T23:04:21Z")
> [@Al128](#): > > I still have it - just turned towards the wall, as I learned the luminescence is somewhat radioactive It’s probably radium-based, which means alpha particles, which means that even the glass face is completely adequate shielding. Just don’t eat or inhale the paint, and you’ll be fine. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2023, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-are-acceptable-exit-conditions-for-the-ukraine-war/980189/329 "2023-02-28T23:33:40Z")
Because it’s an unobtainable goal, as Russia will never agree to it, nor for that matter would any other country or government that has not been occupied and/or unconditionally surrendered. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-are-acceptable-exit-conditions-for-the-ukraine-war/980189/330 "2023-03-01T05:29:49Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > The return of all Ukrainian citizens moved into Russia involuntarily Yeah, that’s probably an unattainable goal, too. Sadly, I imagine an accurate count would be difficult to determine, in itself. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-are-acceptable-exit-conditions-for-the-ukraine-war/980189/331 "2023-03-01T06:01:45Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > On paper, Russia has about 900 fighter aircraft. But most of them are old Soviet aircraft. For example, their most numerous fighter is the SU-24, which was first flown in 1967 Former intelligence operator nitpick coming: the Su-24 isn’t a fighter. It’s a bomber. Some variants can carry air to air weapons but is very unsuited for such a role. The USSR’s most common fighters are the MiG-29 and Su-27, which are a match for most Western fighters prior to the F-22 and F-35. The age of a plane is not necessarily a sign it sucks; aircraft can be updated a lot. The USA still operates some really, really old airplanes like the B-29 and F-15. The likelihood Russia has carefully maintained them, though, seems… low. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-are-acceptable-exit-conditions-for-the-ukraine-war/980189/332 "2023-03-01T07:13:30Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > like the B-29 You must be thinking of the B-52. While there are a couple of flying B-29s, they’re only for show. The B-52 is still in active use, though, and ~70 years old. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-are-acceptable-exit-conditions-for-the-ukraine-war/980189/333 "2023-03-01T15:42:33Z")
The USAF likes to brag there are crews flying in the same aircraft their fathers _and_ grandfathers flew. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-are-acceptable-exit-conditions-for-the-ukraine-war/980189/334 "2023-03-01T16:53:20Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > You must be thinking of the B-52. Of course, yeah, that was just me typing too fast. Pretty sure Enola Gay is retired. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2023, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-are-acceptable-exit-conditions-for-the-ukraine-war/980189/335 "2023-03-02T18:54:51Z")
I graduated from USAF pilot training 41 years ago (ouch!) in 1982. Somebody in my class got a B-52 assignment. Whose father and grandfather had flown them by _then_. By now my classmate is old enough (barely) to have grandkids of his own in USAF pilot training. So it’s possible someone is flying B-52s whose great, great grandfather flew them. My classmate was probably the limit case as his granddad was one of the original B-52 test pilots when the USAF was first accepting the type in 1952-55. And granddad was a Colonel back then. So one of the very first of the B-52 pilots ever. I lost touch with that classmate shortly after we all dispersed to our assignments, so I have no idea if his kid or grandkid even exist, much less that they fly/flew BUFFs. But it’s possible. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2023, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-are-acceptable-exit-conditions-for-the-ukraine-war/980189/336 "2023-03-02T20:10:33Z")
The only previous reference to the B-52 age was that pilots were flying aircraft older than they were. Theseus B-52; what besides the airframe is old? Engines even if not upgraded would have worn out, defensive weapons are no longer machine guns, electronics have vastly improved, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2023, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-are-acceptable-exit-conditions-for-the-ukraine-war/980189/337 "2023-03-02T21:06:05Z")
Airframes have a finite life span due to metal fatigue. Lots of flyable aircraft are mothballed because they hit the design lifespan of the airframe. From [Globalsecurity.org](http://Globalsecurity.org): > [@](#): > > The limiting factor of the B-52’s service life is the economic limit of the aircraft’s upper wing surface, calculated to be approximately 32,500 to 37,500 flight hours. Based on the projected economic service life and forecast mishap rates, the Air Force will be unable to maintain the requirement of 62 aircraft by 2044, after 84 years in service [https://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/systems/b-52-life.htm](https://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/systems/b-52-life.htm) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2023, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-are-acceptable-exit-conditions-for-the-ukraine-war/980189/338 "2023-03-02T21:08:32Z")
Thanks, Sam\_Stone. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2023, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-are-acceptable-exit-conditions-for-the-ukraine-war/980189/339 "2023-03-02T22:19:31Z")
I’m hoping some of them will hit 100 years. But they’ll be beaten by the DC-3, which was designed in the early 1930’s, and there are still close to 200 of them in active service. One reason they have such long-lasting airframes is because they were overbuilt to account for manufacturing sloppiness by hastily-trained workers, and also because they weren’t pressurized. Pressurization cycles kill fuselage. But I’ll bet there are still DC-3’s flying when the last B-52 is retired. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2023, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-are-acceptable-exit-conditions-for-the-ukraine-war/980189/340 "2023-03-03T00:05:04Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > But they’ll be beaten by the DC-3, which was designed in the early 1930’s, and there are still close to 200 of them in active service There are air forces that are still flying Dakotas? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2023, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-are-acceptable-exit-conditions-for-the-ukraine-war/980189/341 "2023-03-03T02:04:26Z")
Wikipedia says there are still some flying in transport roles in various militaries, but I couldn’t find a list of them. The DC-3 has had some pretty good mods available over the years that keep it fresh, such as a turboprop conversion instead of those R-1830 radials. Maybe the militaries still using them are using converted models. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2023, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-are-acceptable-exit-conditions-for-the-ukraine-war/980189/342 "2023-03-03T02:33:28Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Pressurization cycles kill fuselage. Expansion ans shrinkage over time? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-are-acceptable-exit-conditions-for-the-ukraine-war/980189.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-are-acceptable-exit-conditions-for-the-ukraine-war/980189.md?page=18)