# What do you think: Full/white/formal church wedding for couple living together 15 years? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 27, 2020, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-full-white-formal-church-wedding-for-couple-living-together-15-years/848617 "2020-02-27T20:43:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2020, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-full-white-formal-church-wedding-for-couple-living-together-15-years/848617/41 "2020-02-28T14:20:58Z")
Nobody should pay more for a wedding than they can afford, for themselves or their children or anyone else. And there is no rule of etiquette that says you should. Gifts are never obligatory, by definition. The significance of the white dress is that it is the bride’s first marriage. And that’s all - she could be in labor during the ceremony with her third child and it would still be appropriate to wear white. It is perfectly appropriate to say on the invitation “the gift of your presence is all we want”. Regards, Shodan’s Mother ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2020, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-full-white-formal-church-wedding-for-couple-living-together-15-years/848617/42 "2020-02-28T14:42:18Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > I mean, sure, get married – after 15 years, you ought to know whether you’re suited or not, right? I’m curious, though, why marry now? I’ve lived with my gf for 15 years and we occasionally talk/joke about getting married, just for the big party it would entail. ---
**Author:** ![Mallard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Mallard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mallard)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2020, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-full-white-formal-church-wedding-for-couple-living-together-15-years/848617/43 "2020-02-28T14:50:48Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > What do you think: Full/white/formal church wedding for couple living together 15 years? > > So there’s a small group of retired women who go out together for lunch after we take a particular exercise class each week. (Yes, we probably eat more calories than we burn, oh well. It’s a social thing.) > > Today one of the gang was all excited because her daughter is marrying the love of her life (yay! for her) and she wants to do everything “the right way” just as her mother had always told her she wanted her daughter to do. That is, Bridal Shower, and Gift Registry, and Rehearsal Dinner, and Church wedding with formal attire and white wedding dress and a half dozen bridesmaids and flower girls, and reception afterwards at a ritzy country club and all that. Sounds lovely, right? > > But… Well, the couple to be married have been together for a bit over 14 years. They have three children together (12 and 9 and 7 years old) plus the bride’s 16 year old son from a previous relationship, all living together in a house the groom-to-be inherited from his mother some years back. > > And beyond her happiness at them getting married, the mother confessed she was “a bit worried” over how she and her husband will handle all the bills for the wedding and reception and all, what with them both being retired now and her husband having some health problems… > > Yes, really. This well-established couple in their forties, both of whom have jobs, who live in a fully paid off house, expect her retired parents (who were never wealthy, just lower middle class) to foot the bills for the entire thing, just like she was a broke kid marrying fresh out of high school or something? > > Does this seem even slightly reasonable to anyone? > > I mean, sure, get married – after 15 years, you ought to know whether you’re suited or not, right? And have a church ceremony if that’s important to you. And celebrate with your friends and family, fine. I wish them a long and happy life together. > > **But sticking your parents with all the stress and expenses of hosting this blow out**? Especially when your father is a nearly 70 year old man with stage three kidney disease?? And your mother is already stressed out having to provide a lot of medical care for him? What the hell? Our oldest son (middle child) did much the same thing. Both were late 30’s and had lived together but not “churched” for about 7 years, with a 5 year old son. They wanted a wedding so the expenses were split into thirds. They paid 1/3, we paid 1/3 and her parents paid 1/3. Booze was sold at a nominal fee and that helped keep expenses down. Pretty hard to say no when your son has 2 siblings that both got weddings (granted before living together with children). Granted both my wife and I were still working at the time but I think these parents will bear some responsibility here. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2020, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-full-white-formal-church-wedding-for-couple-living-together-15-years/848617/44 "2020-02-28T14:52:11Z")
No _cake_, **San Vito**? \ ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2020, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-full-white-formal-church-wedding-for-couple-living-together-15-years/848617/45 "2020-02-28T15:36:11Z")
> [@Dung\_Beetle](#): > > No _cake_, **San Vito**? \ I know! How can that be legally binding? ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2020, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-full-white-formal-church-wedding-for-couple-living-together-15-years/848617/46 "2020-02-28T15:46:54Z")
When we got married, not only did we pay for our own wedding, but her parents wanted me to pay them a f-ing dowry. ☹ I told them, “Ain’t gonna do it.” ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2020, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-full-white-formal-church-wedding-for-couple-living-together-15-years/848617/47 "2020-02-28T15:54:50Z")
> [@Mallard](#): > > Granted both my wife and I were still working at the time but I think these parents will bear some responsibility here. I don’t see that the parents bear any responsibility. They may choose to contribute, but they are under no obligation. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2020, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-full-white-formal-church-wedding-for-couple-living-together-15-years/848617/48 "2020-02-28T16:03:45Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Whatever the couple wants to do for their wedding is fine, but expecting her parents to pay for it on these facts is ridiculous. This. No issue with wanting to have a formal wedding, even after 15 years. That’s perfectly cool. Having the folks foot the wedding when you’re established economically and well into adulthood? No, not cool. (I’m not even particularly fond of the parents being expected to foot the cost of the wedding at any stage of the couple’s life, to be honest.) They should pay for it themselves. If the parents want to give a generous gift to the couple as a wedding present because they want to, great, but it’s not their responsibility to pay for the wedding. ---
**Author:** ![Kovitlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/2bfe46/32.png) [@Kovitlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kovitlac)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2020, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-full-white-formal-church-wedding-for-couple-living-together-15-years/848617/49 "2020-02-28T16:37:53Z")
By all means, I think they should feel free to have whatever party they want. Do the full white dress, cake, booze, etc (IF that’s what the bride and groom want - NOT only the bride’s mother). I do think that at this point, they should be well beyond needing their parents’ money, though. The whole reason for the tradition was because young couples just starting out can’t necessarily afford all the expense of a wedding/reception. That was also the reason for a bridal shower / baby shower - to start a brand new couple off with what they need to run a household or raise a baby. When they’ve been together for 15 years, they shouldn’t need their parents’ money anymore. Nor should they be asking for gifts (if they are - I’m not assuming). Their parents might want to offer payments for some things, which is perfectly fine if it’s their choosing. It’s highly unreasonable for the couple to expect it (well, in ANY case, but especially having been living together for 15 years!). ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2020, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-full-white-formal-church-wedding-for-couple-living-together-15-years/848617/50 "2020-02-28T16:45:50Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Well, not necessarily. It depends on the state. Not really, no. There’s no state in the US in which you are treated the same as legally wed after X number of years of living together or having children together. There are legal ramifications from such an extended co-habitation and having children together, but there are absolutely no states where you would be legally considered the same as married based solely on length of co-habitation or existence of children. And there are definitely legal differences between being married or not. Even states with common law marriage require that both parties consider themselves married and hold themselves out publicly as married. There is no place in the US where you can wake up one morning and suddenly find you’re considered legally married without your active consent and participation. ETA: Or perhaps your parents’ consent in the case of underage kids, which…ew. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2020, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-full-white-formal-church-wedding-for-couple-living-together-15-years/848617/51 "2020-02-28T19:44:37Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > When we got married, not only did we pay for our own wedding, but her parents wanted me to pay them a f-ing dowry. ☹ I told them, “Ain’t gonna do it.” Hope you told them that they had it reversed and that they should be paying you the dowry. That should shut them up. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2020, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-full-white-formal-church-wedding-for-couple-living-together-15-years/848617/52 "2020-02-28T19:46:26Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Hope you told them that they had it reversed and that they should be paying you the dowry. > That should shut them up. Yup. When the bride’s parents GETS money, it’s call a ‘bride price.’ ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2020, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-full-white-formal-church-wedding-for-couple-living-together-15-years/848617/53 "2020-02-28T20:05:16Z")
Whoops, double post ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2020, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-full-white-formal-church-wedding-for-couple-living-together-15-years/848617/54 "2020-02-28T21:14:03Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > So there’s a small group of retired women who go out together for lunch… Today one of the gang was all excited because her daughter is marrying the love of her life (yay! for her) and she wants to do everything “the right way”… **SBS** , You have _ **got** _ to send her this thread. You can print it out, copy/paste it into an email, or just send the link … you can decide if you want to cc “the gang”. I would, it’d be sure to get a good discussion going at your next lunch! Then, let us know how it went. Her first reaction might be negative, but I think once she sees how many of us support the “couple should pitch in” options, she’ll be relieved. ---
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2020, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-full-white-formal-church-wedding-for-couple-living-together-15-years/848617/55 "2020-02-28T21:35:34Z")
The thread title buries the lede; to me, the question here isn’t the appropriateness of a big white wedding for an established couple, but the appropriateness of asking one’s parents to pay for one’s wedding. If you’re old enough to get married, you’re old enough plan a wedding that’s within your means, even if it’s a simple courthouse ceremony. That should be the starting line for these conversations. That said, on a broader level, when newly-fledged adult children are staring down the enormous expenses of young adulthood–college/grad school, furnishing that first apartment/buying that first house, getting married/ going on a honeymoon, having kids of their own-- parents who have the means to help them should strongly consider doing so. They’re your children, even if they’re not children; presumably you love them and want the best for them in life; presumably you’re leaving them whatever is left over of your money after you die anyway. Why not help them out when they’re starting out, when your contribution means more than it will when they’re (hopefully) more established in their careers? But here, the parents don’t have the means to help, and the children don’t seem to need it. It’s not about how long they couple have been together. If the parents were rich and the kids were poor, and the parents withheld financial support they otherwise would have given because the parents were annoyed that the couple didn’t marry back when they could still plausibly pretend to be virgins, I’d judge those parents. Similarly, if the parents were the ones pushing for the big, traditional wedding (which the children were amenable to but wouldn’t otherwise have chosen for themselves), I’d think it appropriate that the parents at least help finance it. But it still isn’t an entitlement, and anyone planning to get married should assume the responsibility is theirs alone unless the parents offer to help. And for the record, I don’t care for big white churchy weddings; I didn’t have one, and I would only go to one for someone I really cared about. But my distaste for those weddings is dwarfed by my distaste for those who cluck about the inappropriateness of having one when you’ve already been living in sin. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-full-white-formal-church-wedding-for-couple-living-together-15-years/848617/56 "2020-02-29T10:00:13Z")
Meh, it’s basically just another a conflict of traditional expectations and modern society. My aunt and uncle aren’t exactly wealthy, but my uncle literally stopped off at the bank on the way back from the hospital when my aunt gave birth to their first baby, a girl, to open a savings account for her wedding. Not for her education or general wellbeing; in his mind, getting her ‘properly married’ was his main duty as a father. He would have been horrified if she hadn’t been able to have the big over-the-top traditional wedding, regardless of when she’d asked for it. She’d also been primed to consider that a right since she was a kid- I vividly remember her describing her future wedding to me as a young teen, in detail. This included: cake design and flavour; floofy white dress style; decoration colour theme; venue requirements. It did not include a groom… She was, IIRC 31 when she married, but honestly, in that family dynamic, I don’t think she would have been wrong to be upset if her Dad did refuse to pay after a lifetime of being primed to consider that his responsibility. In the event, the groom’s parents were a bit wealthier and they did pay for some, as did the couple, but - at her Dad’s insistence, her parents paid for most. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-full-white-formal-church-wedding-for-couple-living-together-15-years/848617/57 "2020-02-29T11:42:23Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > My question is, has the mother been saying she wants her daughter to do this recently, and pressing the daughter to do more, and offering to pay? It’s not really clear where the idea for the wedding came from - if the couple wants it and ‘like mother used to want’ is a distant memory, then I agree with the thread. But if Mom has been pressing for a big wedding and offering to pay for it, then I don’t think it’s unreasonable to take her up on it. I had a medium-sized wedding, but with lots of cut corners (and no white dress-- it was blue and cost $24.50). The only reason we didn’t just go to the courthouse, frankly, was that my mother wanted a wedding. I was 34, and I wasn’t that crazy about the idea, but my mother said she’d pay for it. So I acquiesced. She acted as hostess, and I got to enjoy myself. Frankly, so did she. She had the time of her life, and she could afford it. If it had been up to me to pay for it, I wouldn’t have done it. However, as I’d (and DH as well) been living on my own since my junior year of college, no shower. It was pretty easy not to have one. Two friends offered to throw them, and I declined. I didn’t have a registry. I asked the same two friends who had offered to throw showers to start a word-of-mouth campaign that we didn’t want gifts. About 1/3 of the guests gave them anyway, but we got a lot of checks. My intent in requesting “no gifts” was not to get money. It was to keep crap out of my already over-full house. But, well, money doesn’t take up space. I had every single thank you note written and mailed by the time we were back from the honeymoon. Yes, I took notecards and a pen on the honeymoon. Anyway, I’m just saying that we don’t have first-hand information here. It’s at least possible this is coming from the mother. Maybe mother has been campaigning for them to make it legal for years, and finally wore them down, and everything, the shower and white dress, and coming from mom. Daughter may have said “We’re not paying for a wedding,” so mother said “Fine, I’ll pay.” ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-full-white-formal-church-wedding-for-couple-living-together-15-years/848617/58 "2020-02-29T14:21:51Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Anyway, I’m just saying that we don’t have first-hand information here. It’s at least possible this is coming from the mother. Maybe mother has been campaigning for them to make it legal for years, and finally wore them down, and everything, the shower and white dress, and coming from mom. > > Daughter may have said “We’re not paying for a wedding,” so mother said “Fine, I’ll pay.” Yeah, who knows what the real story is. However, it does seem silly to spend that much money no matter who is wanting it. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-full-white-formal-church-wedding-for-couple-living-together-15-years/848617/59 "2020-02-29T14:46:29Z")
As Peg Bracken put it in her etiquette manuel “I Try to Behave Myself”: If white wedding dresses meant what they are supposed to mean, how could they be selling them today? ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-full-white-formal-church-wedding-for-couple-living-together-15-years/848617/60 "2020-02-29T19:23:27Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > Ditto. Big, white-gowned weddings aren’t only for virgins anymore. But no grown adult should expect the parents to pay for their wedding. It sounds like the mother is already expecting to pay. Too bad. Unlikely she’ll listen to anything else. This. I have no problem with anybody having the big white poufy monstrosity wedding with hideous bridesmaids dresses and the whole 9 yards, but if you are a well established couple that has been together for 14 years, has 3 kids and a house, a pair of jobs and probably disposable income, pay for it yourself. I have no problem with her mom and dad perhaps paying for the church rental and the fees, but the 5 000 dress, 10 000 in flowers and the 40 000 wedding party … oh Honey, NO. The parents have their retirement and health to fund. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-full-white-formal-church-wedding-for-couple-living-together-15-years/848617.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-full-white-formal-church-wedding-for-couple-living-together-15-years/848617.md?page=4)