# What Do You Think God's Personality Is Like? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 29, 2000, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-gods-personality-is-like/27368 "2000-07-29T22:58:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2000, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-gods-personality-is-like/27368/81 "2000-08-01T20:36:58Z")
> [@](#): > > Yes. Clearly, a fully developed amygdala and limbic system is necessary for the apprehension of God. Are you sure about that? The fact that we appear to apprehend (or create, to be fair) God via the limbic system does not mean the limbic system is both necessary and sufficient for the apprehension (or creation) of God. Does it? Are we certain our pets do not think that we are God? ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2000, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-gods-personality-is-like/27368/82 "2000-08-01T20:37:20Z")
> [@](#): > > They are contradictory in one metaphysic, but not in another . . . Where time is one of a set of event coordinates, they contradict. Where time and space are eternal (that is, where they are nonentities), they do not. Well, where time is a non-entity any action or decision is a contradiction. Hyperdimensionality only delays the question; it doen’t answer it. (Turtles all the way down?) > [@](#): > > I remind you of Father’s point in “Begging the Question”, that that which we postulate in one context can be true, even when we postulate the opposite in some other context. I am not certain, but I believe you are again confusing the notion of utility with something else. Besides, your position that Spirit informs our decisions in _this_ context implies that the two fields (to extend the mathematical metaphor) are not mutually exclusive. Therefore, in the area of overlap (the part of the physical Universe in which Spirit acts and is evident) **both** sets of postulates must hold true. For instance: if Spirit moves me in different directions at different times in my life then either Spirit has changed **or** Spirit simultaneously reated both decisions in the moment of entrance into our timestream. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2000, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-gods-personality-is-like/27368/83 "2000-08-01T22:22:46Z")
Gaudere, I think we just need to agree to disagree on this. I’m convinced I have a point that you fail to see; your point, though clear, is not convincing to me. The distinction between what an obvious God would be and what an obvious anything else might be is for me so significant as to render your analogies moot. I apologize for failing to bring this to a clear close, but I think we are have hit on a point where our worldviews cannot be brought to coincide. Thanks for the discussion, though! Phil said: > [@](#): > > Are we certain our pets do not think that we are God? Anecdote: The dog thinks, “My Master gives me food and water, a warm place to sleep on cold nights, he pets me and cuddles me. He must be God!” The cat thinks, “My Master gives me food and water, a warm place to sleep on cold nights, he pets me and cuddles me. _ **I** _ must be God!” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2000, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-gods-personality-is-like/27368/84 "2000-08-01T22:44:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, does He wish to be loved freely by all who would love Him or not? Unambigiously existing would be a big step in that direction. Boy, do I ever disagree with that. We seek out what we love. “Where your treasure is, there your heart is also.” — Jesus ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2000, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-gods-personality-is-like/27368/85 "2000-08-01T23:07:25Z")
> [@](#): > > If they are destroyed or altered, what happens to the Spirit? Nothing. The limbic system is not in the Spirit. It is in the brain. > [@](#): > > I generally refer to people’s God’s as being different for each person because I have never met any two people whose perception of God meshed so perfectly that there were _no_ differences (aside from Orthodox Jews), so I cannot speak about one person’s perception of God and make sense to a person with a different perception. If you like, think of referring to your God and Poly’s God as if I am referring to Jesus and God; same thing, different aspects perceived. Kind of like different interpretations of a Picasso? > [@](#): > > Are you sure about that? The fact that we appear to apprehend (or create, to be fair) God via the limbic system does not mean the limbic system is both necessary and sufficient for the apprehension (or creation) of God. Does it? I’m sorry, but “create” is most decidedly _not_ fair, not unless you will allow it the other way (i.e., that God might have created the limbic system). > [@](#): > > Are we certain our pets do not think that we are God? Who can say? We have a cat. I suspect he thinks of us as his master (e.g., when he wants to sleep on the amplifier) and his buddy(e.g., when he wants to sleep nestled beside us.) > [@](#): > > Well, where time is a non-entity any action or decision is a contradiction. Yes, when time is an event co-ordinate. I’ll try this, since you like mathematical metaphors, and are very sharp in comprehending them. Natural time is an ordinal continuum. Spiritual time is a cardinal continuum. > [@](#): > > I am not certain, but I believe you are again confusing the notion of utility with something else. Besides, your position that Spirit informs our decisions in this context implies that the two fields (to extend the mathematical metaphor) are not mutually exclusive. Therefore, in the area of overlap (the part of the physical Universe in which Spirit acts and is evident) both sets of postulates must hold true. But the Spirit is not “in” the universe in that sense. It does not “inform” our decisions. It _establishes_ them. The Spirit is not a variable; it is a constant. It is not an equation; it is an identity. It is not a particular reference frame; it is Absolute. I’m afraid those metaphors are the best I can do if we have no mutual frame of reference. > [@](#): > > For instance: if Spirit moves me in different directions at different times in my life then either Spirit has changed or Spirit simultaneously reated both decisions in the moment of entrance into our timestream. The latter is closer. (Aside: I greatly appreciate your forgiveness, and am once again enjoying our discussions. How sad that my own blindness robbed me of a great joy.) ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2000, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-gods-personality-is-like/27368/86 "2000-08-01T23:31:51Z")
> [@](#): > > Boy, do I ever disagree with that. We seek out what we love. But your God is _different_, Lib, and does not seem to desire belief in the same manner that Poly’s does. All your God seems to desire is that people love, and people can do that whether they believe in the objective existence of–and trust–a consciousness that created the universe or not. So with your God, I do not have to question why God would require believing in the very existence of Himself based on what most agree is evidence not considered to be a reasonably objective and unambigious proof of existence, when this seems like this would be an impediment to people loving Him as He desires (and, indeed, requires of mankind for _their_ ultimate happiness, if I read Poly rightly). If Poly can still love God freely even when he is given sufficient proof to induce belief, why can’t everyone? But anyway, Poly wanted to drop it. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2000, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-gods-personality-is-like/27368/87 "2000-08-02T00:20:31Z")
> [@](#): > > ## quote: > > ## Are you sure about that? The fact that we appear to apprehend (or create, to be fair) God via the limbic system does not mean the limbic system is both necessary and sufficient for the apprehension (or creation) of God. Does it? > > I’m sorry, but “create” is most decidedly not fair, not unless you will allow it the other way (i.e., that God might have created the limbic system). I’m sorry–“apprehend” was supposed to cover what you said, namely, that God created it. “Create” was supposed to imply the opposite. My apologies if the wording was unclear. In either case, the limbic system is pretty primitive, and exists in all vertebrates in varying stages of complexity and development. Maybe nonhuman vertebrate animals apprehend or create God, but are wiser than we are and worship quietly and ostentatiously without starting religions. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2000, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-gods-personality-is-like/27368/88 "2000-08-02T00:22:52Z")
Please replace “ostentatiously” with “unostentatiously” in my previous post for it to make sense. ---
**Author:** ![FriendofGod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ee7513/32.png) [@FriendofGod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriendofGod)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2000, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-gods-personality-is-like/27368/89 "2000-08-02T02:16:39Z")
Okay since my last challenge didn’t go over so well, let me try a new one. Here it is: What, in your estimation at this point in your life, would it take to prove to you that God exists? What would it take to prove to you that He not only exists, but that He, in fact, loves you? I am genuinely curious what you consider to be the proof that you need. Thank you D.B. and others for your response to my original challenge. I see your point that it’s hard to answer. A few more responses … Satan: You had originally said that we create God to be what we want Him to be (or something to that effect) and I asked - what if we ‘create’ or ‘want’ Him to be something He’s not? You responded: > [@](#): > > Well, you know, if you really think that God is limited and all… I suppose that He might not be able to be something. I guess it just boils down to the fact that I can’t see God being limited to what you (or anyone else) thinks He is about. What does this concept of “limiting God” have to do with my question to you? I’m afraid I’m not following you. Please clarify. SPOOFE: loved your comments. 'Specially about Fox! Gaudere you said: > [@](#): > > If God really wanted to be loved honestly, I would think He would choose to clearly exist–if He is worthy of love, people could freely choose to love Him…nothing would be forced. But everything you expect and wish God would be … He is. He _does_ clearly exist. You _can_ choose freely to love Him. He _doesn’t_ force you to love Him. You said: > [@](#): > > Nor should he sentence people to the Hell He created if they do not love Him Ah, shades of C&L … memories, memories ;). Gaudere, I won’t rehash C&L stuff in-depth since you know where I stand except to throw in a brief statement: if God could justly do it, _NO_ one in human history would ever go to hell. But we all deserve hell, so He chose out of love for us to give us a way out even though we don’t deserve it. _THAT’S_ love. He could’ve just say “You deserve it, too bad.” But He gave us another choice. pldennison said: > [@](#): > > Well, if he is, or if some god does, I suppose I’ll find out when I die, at the very latest. In the interest of full-disclosure, you should know that I have been exactly where you are now. I am a (for lack of a better word) “lapsed” Episcopalian (Hi, Poly!), and a former born-again Christian. All experienced within the confines of my late-teen and adult life, by my choice. I decided it (at least the god part of it) was all bunk. Playing in the band was pretty cool, but the music was lame. Out of curiousity, I’d love to hear more about your experience and what led you to think God was bunk. You also quoted me as saying I’ve known people who’ve died without knowing God, and said: > [@](#): > > I already know what your answer is going to be, but how do YOU know they didn’t know God? Doesn’t only God know that? The ones I’m thinking of are unambiguously unsaved. They declared plain and simple that they weren’t Christians. Polycarp: love your comments as usual! 🙂 Night all. ---
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2000, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-gods-personality-is-like/27368/90 "2000-08-02T02:50:22Z")
You asked what I thought about the possibillity that God isn’t what a person thinks He is. This is limiting God. The minute you say, “What if he isn’t,” you are posing a question that God isn’t something. The minute you say, “God can’t be a certain way,” you are setting limitartions on Him. Try reading your own questions, please. As you have showed time and time again, FoGgy, you worship a book. Okay, maybe that is a bit inaccurate… Actually, you are content to limit what you know of God and all of what God is in a book. A book of other people’s experiences with God many eons ago. You are aware that there have been biographies of mere mortals as long as the Bible that still left stuff out, I assume. Anyway, the fact is that I will and do know a lot more about God by opening my mind to all of the texts He inspired than you ever will. In fact, even if I were to never read a single word of it all and simply allow myself to feel Him and communicate with Him, I still wind up knowing more about His nature than you will ever know. As I said, you are limiting God. And you are so sure that He is exactly what you think He is, you can’t even see this. It’s quite sad really… You say you’re a FriendofGod, but you act like you never met the guy. * * * Yer pal, Satan \*TIME ELAPSED SINCE I QUIT SMOKING: Three months, three weeks, three days, 45 minutes and 21 seconds. 4601 cigarettes not smoked, saving $575.16. Life saved: 2 weeks, 1 day, 23 hours, 25 minutes. “Satan is not an unattractive person.”\*- **Drain Bead** (Thanks for the ringing endoresement, honey!) Yet, ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2000, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-gods-personality-is-like/27368/91 "2000-08-02T10:47:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Maybe nonhuman vertebrate animals apprehend or create God, but are wiser than we are and worship quietly and unostentatiously[sup]1[/sup] without starting religions. “At least a possibility, Admiral.” — Mr. Spock, _Star Trek IV_ [sup]1[/sup] As ammended by author. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2000, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-gods-personality-is-like/27368/92 "2000-08-02T11:05:03Z")
> [@](#): > > The ones I’m thinking of are unambiguously unsaved. They declared plain and simple that they weren’t Christians. So it is not God’s prerogative to save nonChristians? I thought he, and not you, was in charge? ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2000, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-gods-personality-is-like/27368/93 "2000-08-02T11:06:48Z")
> [@](#): > > But everything you expect and wish God would be … He is. He _does_ clearly exist. You _can_ choose freely to love Him. He _doesn’t_ force you to love Him. Horsefeathers. If God **clearly** existed, there would be **no** debate on whether he did. The debate would instead center on whether he was worthy of worship. “Clearly” means “clearly,” and nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2000, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-gods-personality-is-like/27368/94 "2000-08-02T12:14:19Z")
> [@](#): > > If God clearly existed, there would be no debate on whether [He] did. And no free-will either. > [@](#): > > The debate would instead center on whether [He] was worthy of worship. And that once proved to be a distraction, to say the least. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2000, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-gods-personality-is-like/27368/95 "2000-08-02T12:21:25Z")
William Shatner j/k as satan says, you get what you ask for. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2000, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-gods-personality-is-like/27368/96 "2000-08-02T12:32:05Z")
Okay, where is David? I _insist_ that you pounce upon John Larrigan’s post at once! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2000, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-gods-personality-is-like/27368/97 "2000-08-02T13:02:00Z")
Nevermind. I get it now. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2000, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-gods-personality-is-like/27368/98 "2000-08-02T13:22:39Z")
You know, I’m beginning to worry about the direction this thread is going…William Shatner, indeed!! “And if you join [SalvationAuction.com](http://SalvationAuction.com), over 100 gods will bid for your soul. You can choose the best offer!!” 😃 To a very great deal, I agree with Satan on this one. God is beyond our power to conceive; we can only report on “sightings” and what was observed. To delimit Him to a particular concept, no matter how historically grounded, is to attempt to fence Him in to something that human minds can grasp. There’s at least an outside possibility that we’re **all** right: that there is no such thing as the god that David, Gaudere, and Phil deny, that there is a god who corresponds to what Lib, Friend, and I affirm, and that whatever it is that Joel really thinks when he’s not playing atheist-Jesuit is true too. 🙂 I need to take issue with some comments people have made here. For me, for Lib., and for Friend, the evidence for God is unambiguous. His hand is at work in the world around us, his Word created all that is, and all that good stuff. But this is all based on a subjective encounter that each of us had with Him, a life-transforming experience that convinced us and gave us “new eyes to see Him with.” The closest non-religious analogy I can draw is to the “Eureka” experience in which a profound insight completely changes one’s understanding of the subject under study. My personal experience, which I understand is common, is that the calculus is nonsensical until you grasp the concept of limits, at which point it becomes nearly tautological. “_Of course_ it’s that way; why didn’t I see it before?” And without either that experiential ground or a certitude based on authority, reason, or some other grounding, He is **not** “clearly present” – as every atheist on this board will be glad to confirm. Phil, having been on both sides of the fence, you may have some insight into this that will help to make it clearer. And I join FoG in asking what it was that convinced you that “this God stuff is bunk.” If you don’t mind discussing it, what was your reverse-conversion experience like? ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2000, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-gods-personality-is-like/27368/99 "2000-08-02T13:27:42Z")
> [@](#): > > ## quote: > > ## If God clearly existed, there would be no debate on whether [He] did. > > And no free-will either. I disagree, and it will probably have to be left at that. Free men are free to pledge their allegiance or not to earthly leaders, and despite the fact that I’m about to be browbeaten about the difference between God and earthly leaders, I think the point remains. **If** , for example, a God **clearly and unambiguously** existed and was the God described in the Old Testament as a petulant murderer, I would under no circumstances pledge my allegiance, love, or anything else to him, regardless of the fact the he created me. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2000, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-gods-personality-is-like/27368/100 "2000-08-02T13:45:48Z")
Yes, Phil, but free men (in an earthly context) do not exist. (Note: I, too, am interested in hearing both of your conversion experiences.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-gods-personality-is-like/27368.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-gods-personality-is-like/27368.md?page=6)