# What do you think is the first villain most think of when they think of these superheroes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 3, 2016, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-first-villain-most-think-of-when-they-think-of-these-superheroes/770512 "2016-11-03T07:57:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-first-villain-most-think-of-when-they-think-of-these-superheroes/770512/1 "2016-11-03T07:57:28Z")
What do you think MOST people will think of first in regards to “biggest arch enemy” when they think of these superheroes? Keep in mind this is NOT asking “Who do YOU think of first when you think of these superheroes?”, but rather, who would you guess was most popular or well known amongst the majority, which includes people who don’t necessarily read comics regularly. Superman? I would guess that Lex Luthor is the one most would know. Batman? Joker, of course. Spiderman? A bit tougher, but I would argue that his most well-known villain would probably be Doctor Octopus. Yes, yes, we all know the fanboy or girl in you is SCREAMING that “no, no, it SHOULD be Green Goblin, dammit…or Riddler…or Mr Mxyzptlk…”, but see, not many are going to know about THOSE ones as they are the more prominent ones. But what do you think? Also, feel free to add even more superheroes and those villains specific to them that you think most fans who AT LEAST KNOW A LITTLE ABOUT THEM might think of first. I.E. Daredevil? Bullseye. ETA: If you’re bored with that or think that most people have already said what you were thinking anyway, **_then try reversing it_, just to prompt even more conversation**. Try naming a super villain (like Kingpin or Deathstroke) and then try to guess who most might automatically think of as the HERO that that villain fights most against. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-first-villain-most-think-of-when-they-think-of-these-superheroes/770512/2 "2016-11-03T08:43:22Z")
Well, if we were going to choose the primary enemy of the Kingpin, I’d say the response would be: 1. Spider-Man, if you read comics up until 1990 or so, or 2. Daredevil, if you read comics after 1990 or have never read comics but only seen the _Daredevil_ film or television series. The hero with the _least_ easy choice for arch-enemy is probably the Barry Allen Flash. He had a varied rogue’s gallery but no single standout, though for people who watch the TV series and haven’t read the comics, they’d probably go with either the Reverse-Flash or Zoom (basically the same character, anyway) simply because these two had extended story arcs. Who is Green Arrow’s primary villain? Honestly, I’ve no idea. I’m not even sure I could name even a handful of his recurring enemies, but I was never a fan of the comic character nor a watcher of _Arrow_. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-first-villain-most-think-of-when-they-think-of-these-superheroes/770512/3 "2016-11-03T09:06:55Z")
See, that’s why I threw in Kingpin, because I knew he applied to more than one hero. So the trick becomes “Which of those two do you think the MOST people would say first?” My answer: Daredevil. I didn’t know Kingpin was a villain of Spidey until recently (last five years), but Daredevil was the movie that showed me he was a villain of that one. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-first-villain-most-think-of-when-they-think-of-these-superheroes/770512/4 "2016-11-03T09:10:25Z")
Well, why not design one of those Feud games? Do those still exist? I forget who was running them. ---
**Author:** ![Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/les_espaces_du_sommeil/32/308_2.png) [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Les_Espaces_Du_Sommeil)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-first-villain-most-think-of-when-they-think-of-these-superheroes/770512/5 "2016-11-03T11:54:58Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Superman? > I would guess that Lex Luthor is the one most would know. > Batman? > Joker, of course. > Spiderman? > A bit tougher, but I would argue that his most well-known villain would probably be Doctor Octopus. Spiderman: Doctor Octopus is an excellent choice but I’d pick the Green Goblin. So iconic that it was the only villain chosen for this [legendary adaptation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider-Man_(Atari_2600_video_game)). Sweet memories. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-first-villain-most-think-of-when-they-think-of-these-superheroes/770512/6 "2016-11-03T12:14:44Z")
I would also argue for Green Goblin as Spidey’s iconic villain. That’s who they used in the first modern movie which is a good clue to general awareness, I’d venture. How does it stack up on the rest of the Marvel side? Thor:Loki Cap:Red Skull F4: Doom X-Men:Magneto Hulk: General Ross? Iron Man:Tony Stark 🙂 ETA: do the rest of the Avengers even have iconic villains outside the Avengers’ group nemeses? BW, The Vision & Hawkeye? I suppose Ultron, for Vision ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-first-villain-most-think-of-when-they-think-of-these-superheroes/770512/7 "2016-11-03T12:45:49Z")
There are a lot of good choices for the Flash; he is up with Batman and Spider-Man for best rogues gallery. I’d have go with Gorilla Grodd, but a case can be made for Mirror Master. Green Lantern: Sinestro. Second choice would be Star Sapphire. The Heckler: Bushwack’r. (Beep Beep) Howard the Duck: The Kidney Lady or Doctor Bong ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-first-villain-most-think-of-when-they-think-of-these-superheroes/770512/8 "2016-11-03T12:53:09Z")
Ok guys, how is reverse flash not the most iconic flash villain? I mean, sure Flash has a lot of good choices but only one of them killed his wife. ---
**Author:** ![Vicsage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/e68b1a/32.png) [@Vicsage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vicsage)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-first-villain-most-think-of-when-they-think-of-these-superheroes/770512/9 "2016-11-03T13:49:33Z")
Hulk, at least early on was either The Leader or “puny Banner”. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-first-villain-most-think-of-when-they-think-of-these-superheroes/770512/10 "2016-11-03T14:43:19Z")
My own instinct was Supermman/Luthor, Batman/Joker, Spider-Man/Doc Ock. Since I know crap-all about superheroes, take that as a totally lay opinion. Other “major” heroes I can think of: Wonder Woman, Aqua Man, Iron Man, Hulk, Capt. America, I wouldn’t have guessed any iconic villain. With someone in the thread having said “Red Skull” for Capt., I can agree but I wouldn’t have thought of it myself. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-first-villain-most-think-of-when-they-think-of-these-superheroes/770512/11 "2016-11-03T14:49:14Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Ok guys, how is reverse flash not the most iconic flash villain? I mean, sure Flash has a lot of good choices but only one of them killed his wife. First villain I think of for Flash is Captain Cold, probably because of his Legion of Doom membership in the “Challenge of the Super Friends” (where I first saw was introduced to the Flash.) Same goes for Wonder Woman (Cheetah) and Aquaman (Black Manta). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-first-villain-most-think-of-when-they-think-of-these-superheroes/770512/12 "2016-11-03T15:03:01Z")
The Flash is a special case because he has a arch enemy _group_-The Rogues Gallery. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-first-villain-most-think-of-when-they-think-of-these-superheroes/770512/13 "2016-11-03T15:10:07Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The Flash is a special case because he has a arch enemy _group_-The Rogues Gallery. This might actually be the right answer. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-first-villain-most-think-of-when-they-think-of-these-superheroes/770512/14 "2016-11-03T15:37:20Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > … > > Who is Green Arrow’s primary villain? Honestly, I’ve no idea. I’m not even sure I could name even a handful of his recurring enemies, but I was never a fan of the comic character nor a watcher of _Arrow_. Based on the show, I’d say Deathstroke. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-first-villain-most-think-of-when-they-think-of-these-superheroes/770512/15 "2016-11-03T16:04:58Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Based on the show, I’d say Deathstroke. Based on everything I’ve seen of him over the last 30 years, I would say his own ego. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-first-villain-most-think-of-when-they-think-of-these-superheroes/770512/16 "2016-11-03T16:46:52Z")
The fact that the first modern Spiderman movie starred Green Goblin makes me think that’d be the winner there as well, although my guess is that significantly less than half of Americans would be able to name him. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-first-villain-most-think-of-when-they-think-of-these-superheroes/770512/17 "2016-11-03T18:19:58Z")
The Green Goblin was the marquee villain for Spider-Man when the legend was being created. It was GG who was his best friends dad, and who unmasked him on the cover of the mag, which seems quite intimate in a way. It may have wild fluctuations based on what happens in succeeding decades or in the movies after the first. ---
**Author:** ![Trancephalic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trancephalic/32/380_2.png) [@Trancephalic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trancephalic)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-first-villain-most-think-of-when-they-think-of-these-superheroes/770512/18 "2016-11-03T18:37:49Z")
I’ll second Flash=Gorilla Grodd and Wonder Woman=Cheetah, especially for those of of who grew up with the DCAU and reruns of Super Friends. To that end, I’d nominate Robin=Deathstroke(aka Slade). Also Captain Marvel/Shazam=Mister Mind, the best super villain ever concieved! ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-first-villain-most-think-of-when-they-think-of-these-superheroes/770512/19 "2016-11-03T19:24:27Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Based on the show, I’d say Deathstroke. I put Deathstroke with Robin. I like Arrow but it has almost nothing at all to do with the comic. Or at least when I stopped reading it around 05 or 06. I would say Count Vertigo for Ollie or maybe Merlyn. But I lean to Vertigo. ---
**Author:** ![neofishboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/neofishboy/32/444_2.png) [@neofishboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neofishboy)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-first-villain-most-think-of-when-they-think-of-these-superheroes/770512/20 "2016-11-03T20:32:38Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, if we were going to choose the primary enemy of the Kingpin, I’d say the response would be: > > 1. Spider-Man, if you read comics up until 1990 or so, or > > 2. Daredevil, if you read comics after 1990 or have never read comics but only seen the _Daredevil_ film or television series. I was a Marvel kid in the early-to-mid '80s and I would have chosen Daredevil due to Frank Miller’s focus on the conflict between the two. The “Born Again” arc was pretty badass. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-first-villain-most-think-of-when-they-think-of-these-superheroes/770512.md?page=2)