# What Do You Think Is “The Most Liveable City” (based solely on places you have personally visited)? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 26, 2022, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-most-liveable-city-based-solely-on-places-you-have-personally-visited/966920 "2022-06-26T23:58:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![PookahMacPhellimey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pookahmacphellimey/32/3175_2.png) [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-most-liveable-city-based-solely-on-places-you-have-personally-visited/966920/21 "2022-06-27T13:59:41Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > > [@MrDibble](#): > > > > Others I’ve visited like Venice or London, while culturally great, had some big downsides. > > Venice is a mind-blowing historical relic, absolutely worth visiting and exploring, but trying to live there, realistically, would be nightmarishly difficult. I have enormous sympathy for the small population of tourist-service people who have chosen, or are effectively required, to reside in this slowly decaying open-air architectural museum. I live 35 km from Venice and I find even going there a chore sometimes. Many people of the Veneto region are like “Oh no, I have to go to Venice today. _dramatic sigh_”. Of course it is wonderful, but only if you are on holiday. If you’re trying to get anything done, it’s a nightmare. It takes ages to get anywhere, satnav doesn’t work well, your only mode of transport except boat is to walk, so if it rains you’ll get wet and if it’s hot you will fry - both of those are common. You have to dodge hordes of tourists each and every day and that’s not even counting acqua alta - though the new Mosa system seems to be mitigating that a lot. I don’t even want to think about mould. It’s the polar opposite of livable. My city, Padua, is actually quite good. Medium-sized university town with lots of things to do. A bit too much humidity, public transport could be better and Italian bureaucracy remains a nightmare, but I am never bored, practically all of the city is bikeable and rents, while going up, are affordable compared to elsewhere in Europe. For example, many places in my home country of the Netherlands would be very livable if they were not sunk by a complete and utter lack of affordable housing. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-most-liveable-city-based-solely-on-places-you-have-personally-visited/966920/22 "2022-06-27T14:08:06Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > London has even better walkability and transportation So, when I mentioned downsides to London, walkability was a big one for me - I didn’t find London that walkable the many times I’ve been. Great public transport compared to where I come from, but I only found parts of it walkable, the traffic congestion was just so bad. I don’t know if this has gotten that much better in the last decade, as that’s when I was last there, but I found e.g Paris or Helsinki less congested/more walkable. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-most-liveable-city-based-solely-on-places-you-have-personally-visited/966920/23 "2022-06-27T14:12:57Z")
If I set aside my one deal breaker (must have beaches), it’s a tossup between Berlin and Mexico City. Maybe the edge goes to Mexico City because of its affordability; you can take the subway pretty much anywhere for 5 pesos (25 cents)! ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-most-liveable-city-based-solely-on-places-you-have-personally-visited/966920/24 "2022-06-27T14:18:37Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > Can anyone post the Economist’s list? It’s paywalled. Here’s a link to a free Bloomberg article with the list; [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-23/canada-western-europe-top-world-s-most-liveable-cities-ranking](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-23/canada-western-europe-top-world-s-most-liveable-cities-ranking) ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-most-liveable-city-based-solely-on-places-you-have-personally-visited/966920/25 "2022-06-27T16:47:58Z")
To summarize the top and bottom ten cities _according to the article_: Canadian cities are more liveable than enthralling… These are the top 10 most liveable cities: 1. Vienna, Austria 2. Copenhagen, Denmark 3. Zurich, Switzerland 4. Calgary, Canada 5. Vancouver, Canada 6. Geneva, Switzerland 7. Frankfurt, Germany 8. Toronto, Canada 9. Amsterdam, Netherlands 10. Osaka, Japan 11. Melbourne, Australia And these are the bottom 10: 1. Tehran, Iran 2. Douala, Cameroon 3. Harare, Zimbabwe 4. Dhaka, Bangladesh 5. Port Moresby, Papua New Guinea 6. Karachi, Pakistan 7. Algiers, Algeria 8. Tripoli, Libya 9. Lagos, Nigeria 10. Damascus, Syria ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-most-liveable-city-based-solely-on-places-you-have-personally-visited/966920/26 "2022-06-27T16:52:26Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > **Houston** is the worst automotive-centered hellhole I’ve ever visited, so it gets my vote for “_least_ liveable”. I completely concur. I hated it when I would be assigned to go to Houston for meetings or conferences. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-most-liveable-city-based-solely-on-places-you-have-personally-visited/966920/27 "2022-06-27T16:54:05Z")
I can’t understand why Frankfurt is the highest ranked German city. It’s ugly and has a kind of unfriendly and cold (not in a meteorological way) reputation, mostly due to the fact that it’s the banking capital of Germany, and it still struggles with a lot of street crime. Of the major German cities, I’d rather live in Berlin, Cologne, Hamburg, Cologne, Düsseldorf or Munich than in Frankfurt. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-most-liveable-city-based-solely-on-places-you-have-personally-visited/966920/28 "2022-06-27T16:59:41Z")
I live in Portland and I would knock it off the list precisely because of the price of housing. Those shows where people win big at a scratch ticket and decide to buy their dream house? You won’t see too many of them filmed in Portland because mere scratch ticket winnings won’t get you much here-You need Powerball level moolah to get dream houses in this area. For example, $479,000 will get you this luxurious 2 bedroom, one bath mansion: [7015 N Westanna Ave, Portland, OR 97203 | MLS #22174403 | Zillow](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/7015-N-Westanna-Ave-Portland-OR-97203/53867039_zpid/) ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-most-liveable-city-based-solely-on-places-you-have-personally-visited/966920/29 "2022-06-27T17:06:27Z")
Toronto and Vancouver have many merits, but traffic is very bad, weather tends to be cold or dark or humid-hot and housing prices are beyond sanity or stratosphere. Most big Canadian cities are really becoming more similar than different - for good and bad. Alberta, a beautiful province, is often compared to Texas - sometimes accurately. If Toronto is “New York run by the Swiss”, what is Calgary? ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-most-liveable-city-based-solely-on-places-you-have-personally-visited/966920/30 "2022-06-27T17:21:07Z")
Of the top 10 I’ve only been to Vancouver and Melbourne and really enjoyed my visits to each. It’s a tough choice between the two, but I think I’d go with Melbourne because of the warmer climate (but there’s always a chance you’ll get Four Seasons In One Day) ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-most-liveable-city-based-solely-on-places-you-have-personally-visited/966920/31 "2022-06-27T17:30:45Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > Of the major German cities, I’d rather live in Berlin, Cologne, Hamburg, Cologne, Düsseldorf or Munich than in Frankfurt. Too late to edit: I REALLY like Cologne, but strike one of them. 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-most-liveable-city-based-solely-on-places-you-have-personally-visited/966920/32 "2022-06-27T17:38:40Z")
Well, Cologne is pretty wonderful. Though if I lived there I’d probably want to get out of town during at least some of the craziness of the Christmas Market season. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-most-liveable-city-based-solely-on-places-you-have-personally-visited/966920/33 "2022-06-27T17:47:14Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Though if I lived there I’d probably want to get out of town during at least some of the craziness of the Christmas Market season. You call the _Christmas season_ the Cologne craziness??? What about fucking Fastelovend (Carnival)? That’s when they all go bonkers! 😂 ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-most-liveable-city-based-solely-on-places-you-have-personally-visited/966920/34 "2022-06-27T17:50:46Z")
Seconded. It seems the Economist has asked too many bankers. A breed that concentrates there, so the rest of the Republic does not have to deal with them. As a revenge they close the branches in the other cities. The price of getting rid of bankers is inconvenience for everything that cannot be done online. > [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > You call the _Christmas season_ the Cologne craziness??? What about fucking Fastelovend (Carnival)? 😂 Seconded too, with all the emphasis in the world. Never again Cologne during Carnival. **Never!!** ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-most-liveable-city-based-solely-on-places-you-have-personally-visited/966920/35 "2022-06-27T18:00:03Z")
Perhaps they meant Frankfurt an der Oder. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-most-liveable-city-based-solely-on-places-you-have-personally-visited/966920/36 "2022-06-27T18:07:12Z")
I’ve never been there, but I’ve heard that it’s a nice city and that it’s good to live in. It has the advantage though that it hadn’t been bombed to shreds in the way Frankfurt am Main had been, which made that Frankfurt ugly as every other German city that suffered from the many architectural sins of the post-war reconstruction. On top of that, Frankfurt am Main has those piss-ugly skyscrapers added by the banker’s egos in the high-flying 90s and 00s. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-most-liveable-city-based-solely-on-places-you-have-personally-visited/966920/37 "2022-06-27T18:09:43Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > I can’t understand why Frankfurt is the highest ranked German city. Me neither. I lived there for four years and was very appreciative of the fact that my job took me everywhere else in Europe on a regular basis. I saw that NYC is way up on the list for North America. I like visiting there, but the constant crush of people is claustrophobic. I don’t agree with Geneva, either. Ugly concrete city with little to recommend it architecturally, but it does have train access to some spectacular scenery. ---
**Author:** ![Lancia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lancia/32/17174_2.png) [@Lancia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lancia)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-most-liveable-city-based-solely-on-places-you-have-personally-visited/966920/38 "2022-06-27T18:17:46Z")
I have extremely limited travel experience and have lived in even fewer places (I now live ~20 miles from where I grew up) but I did live in Portland for 2 years and can’t think of anywhere else I would rather be. It has everything that I could want and, despite Trump’s claim to the contrary, is still a pleasant, livable, clean, and overall safe city. Public transport is excellent, the food scene is top-notch, there are wonderful galleries and theaters and yeah, housing is expensive, but it’s expensive in most cities. In Portland you get a lot of bang for your buck. Like you I lived either within walking distance or a short public transport ride to anything I could need to get to. When I did have to drive traffic wasn’t too horrible even at rush hour. I miss it a lot. > [@Chefguy](#): > > Based on personal criteria of walkability, access to services, public transportation, restaurants, etc., it would have to be Portland, OR. Most neighborhoods there are like small towns, with solid business districts supporting them. Where we lived, we had access to two bus lines and light rail. We could walk to two groceries, a farmers’ market, our doctor, dentist, and eye doctor, several banks, the vet, many food carts, and the best pizza on the west coast. Six years before we left there, I bought a 2016 Mazda. When we left in 2022, it had 12,000 miles on it. Yeah, the weather can be dismal, but it’s offset by all the rest. I hadn’t realized you had left, you were one of the few PDX dopers that I was aware of. The weather never bothered me but I grew up with it so rain and never-ending clouds for 8 months of the year is just normal to me. Edit: > [@Czarcasm](#): > > I live in Portland and I would knock it off the list precisely because of the price of housing :🤦‍♂️ I totally spaced out you lived in Portland as well! The house you cited is only 6 blocks from the nearest bus stop which may have something to do with the price… location, location, location and all that. However, to play devil’s advocate: Another 100K will get you a very nice 2nd floor condo in the middle of the Alphabet district – much more desirable location: > **[2430 NW Westover Rd UNIT 201, Portland, OR 97210 | Zillow](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2430-NW-Westover-Rd-UNIT-201-Portland-OR-97210/2105296728_zpid/)** > > 2430 NW Westover Rd Unit 201, Portland OR, is a Condo home that contains 1233 sq ft and was built in 2008.It contains 2 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms.This home last sold for $550,000 in August 2022. > > The Zestimate for this Condo is $545,700, which has... Or for 40K _less_ than your example you can get an absolutely beautiful condo in the heart of downtown, literally across the street from both a MAX stop and a bus stop. I have personally been in one of the units in this building and the photos do not do it justice: > **[1500 SW 5th Ave UNIT 2103, Portland, OR 97201 | Zillow](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1500-SW-5th-Ave-UNIT-2103-Portland-OR-97201/53968856_zpid/)** > > 1500 SW 5th Ave Unit 2103, Portland OR, is a Condo home that contains 1319 sq ft and was built in 1973.It contains 2 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms.This home last sold for $352,500 in September 2022. > > The Zestimate for this Condo is $352,600, which has... The Portland Plaza location is also adjacent to a couple of theaters, a beautiful park with large cascading fountain, and a grocery store 4 blocks away. If I had the cash and the freedom I would be living in that building. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-most-liveable-city-based-solely-on-places-you-have-personally-visited/966920/39 "2022-06-27T19:33:20Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Very unlike Paris… I love to visit Paris. However, the rudeness isn’t directed at tourists. Parisians are rude to everyone including other French people and most specifically other Parisians. It’s all part of being from Paris. You’re supposed to be snotty, snooty, all while feigning a _laissez-faire – laissez-aller_ attitude. Looking proper _déshabillé_ of course. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-most-liveable-city-based-solely-on-places-you-have-personally-visited/966920/40 "2022-06-27T19:43:44Z")
Our band played a show in Frankfurt back in 2003, and I found it quite a pleasant surprise. My only knowledge of the city before was through many flights through that airport and its reputation as a business/banking center of Germany. The people there were quite friendly, and I found the city overall pleasant – didn’t find it ugly and found the skyscrapers kind of an odd, but interesting, backdrop for a European city. That said, I did prefer Hamburg, Berlin, Dresden, Munich. I didn’t get a chance to visit Heidelburg, but the university town of Freiburg and its location in the Black Forest and near Switzerland and France quite appealing. But that’s of a size that’s probably too small for a “livable city” list. Of larger cities I’ve been to, Seattle would have to be up there for me. My hometown of Chicago, despite its reputation, I find quite livable and enjoyable. Vienna is too boring and clean for me. For European cities, I’m more interested in places like Edinburgh or Budapest (where I lived for many years, though the quasi-fascist government now probably puts it off my list.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-most-liveable-city-based-solely-on-places-you-have-personally-visited/966920.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-is-the-most-liveable-city-based-solely-on-places-you-have-personally-visited/966920.md?page=3)