# What do you think of Hillary's smack down of Sanders? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 5, 2019, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-hillarys-smack-down-of-sanders/844427 "2019-12-05T21:18:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2019, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-hillarys-smack-down-of-sanders/844427/81 "2019-12-09T04:00:06Z")
Not really. I myself have become a character voter when it comes to the Presidency. “The one I’d like to have a beer with” isn’t the best proxy for determining good character but it might be more effective for choosing Presidents than taking an issues quiz and finding the best match. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2019, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-hillarys-smack-down-of-sanders/844427/82 "2019-12-09T05:16:27Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > So not only did Hillary NOT get a majority of the total popular vote (only 48.18% of it), but it is not intellectually honest to use the argument that she got more votes than Trump because, as hard as this is to believe, Trump ran his election to win the electoral college meaning working the states where the swing of a few votes could (and did) change the election. **IF** Trump did what Hillary did and campaigned for the most votes possible no matter where they were from then the comparison would be valid. Ahistorical bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2019, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-hillarys-smack-down-of-sanders/844427/83 "2019-12-09T05:35:56Z")
In a world in which we go by popular vote we probably also require a majority. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2019, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-hillarys-smack-down-of-sanders/844427/84 "2019-12-09T05:41:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > In a world in which we go by popular vote we probably also require a majority. No. Not really. How would that even work? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2019, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-hillarys-smack-down-of-sanders/844427/85 "2019-12-09T05:46:35Z")
Think the recent Louisiana Governor race run off. None had won a majority so the top two had a run off. Not sure if that would be required though. Why do you think so **adaher**? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2019, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-hillarys-smack-down-of-sanders/844427/86 "2019-12-09T06:05:55Z")
The only other western democracy with a popularly elected President, France, does it with a required majority. You certainly don’t have to go that way but you are giving third party runs much more “spoiler” power if you don’t. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2019, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-hillarys-smack-down-of-sanders/844427/87 "2019-12-09T07:13:57Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Think the recent Louisiana Governor race run off. None had won a majority so the top two had a run off. > > Not sure if that would be required though. Why do you think so **adaher**? Because no one should be President when most people voted against them, and you don’t want spoilers. A runoff if no one gets a majority insures that voters put their stamp of approval on the winner. A popular vote result where the winner gets 43-48% is no more legitimate than what we have now. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2019, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-hillarys-smack-down-of-sanders/844427/88 "2019-12-09T12:42:18Z")
I get the point about wanting to reduce the power of spoilers but I would say that a popular vote result in which the person who wins 48 to 46% is more “legitimate” than the one have now in which the 46% candidate wins. And spoilers seem to have that power now, with each state doing their individual popular vote in which the plurality wins … maybe more so since it can be a few votes they take in just a single state. (Quotes placed because of course it is legal and the according to the rules of the game so of course is in fact “legitimate” in that sense.) ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2019, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-hillarys-smack-down-of-sanders/844427/89 "2019-12-09T13:57:57Z")
If 3 people run, there’s a chance a person with 34% could win. Seems like an awful lot of trouble to remove the Electoral College if you are just going to switch to first past the post. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2019, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-hillarys-smack-down-of-sanders/844427/90 "2019-12-09T14:12:36Z")
Given that with the Electoral College system that election would have no one with 270 so the House would decide [Frequently Asked Questions | National Archives](https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/faq.html#no270) with each state delegation getting one vote. Still better with popular vote. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2019, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-hillarys-smack-down-of-sanders/844427/91 "2019-12-09T14:35:50Z")
But also, still worse than have a popular vote with a runoff if nobody gets a majority. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2019, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-hillarys-smack-down-of-sanders/844427/92 "2019-12-09T17:50:02Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Yep. Doing the politician act at the Presidential level should be reserved for the truly gifted, like Obama and her husband. Otherwise, just be yourself. For Hillary, being arrogant, prickly, paranoid, and entitled, _is_ being herself. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2019, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-hillarys-smack-down-of-sanders/844427/93 "2019-12-09T19:22:58Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > For Hillary, being arrogant, prickly, paranoid, and entitled, _is_ being herself. > > Regards, > Shodan Expert opinion. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2019, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-hillarys-smack-down-of-sanders/844427/94 "2019-12-09T20:57:36Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Hey, if I bought a major news network and paid it to tell lies about you non-stop, and then spread even worse lies through arms-length operatives I could disassociate myself from if need be, and I continued that for going on three decades, I bet _you’d_ end up a pretty lousy politician, too. Then why exactly was she running? So she could lose to a bobblehead? > [@](#): > > Not to mention the rabid fans of a marginally-popular candidate from your own party using you as a scapegoat for why their guy, who has serious problems picking up minority votes, lost a competitive primary in the party where minority votes actually matter. Maybe if she didn’t cheat, they wouldn’t have as much to bitch about. > [@](#): > > But yeah, Hillary’s a Witch. You can find endless validation for that point of view. How accurate is it? Just never you mind! Right, because that’s what i said. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2019, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-hillarys-smack-down-of-sanders/844427/95 "2019-12-09T21:09:04Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Ahistorical bullshit. In what way did Saint Cad Mistate the facts? And in what way was that mistatement bullshit? Everything he said seem accurate. Or are you just saying shit to pass the time? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2019, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-hillarys-smack-down-of-sanders/844427/96 "2019-12-09T21:31:40Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The popular vote is functionally meaningless, but this shouldn’t be the case. It’s mind boggling to me that you think it’s acceptable that the votes of most Americans really don’t matter, based on nothing more than geography. In my preferred system, every single American, no matter what state they live in, would have the exact same voting influence. Everyone’s vote would count exactly the same. You haven’t articulated any reason why it’s good that the votes of most Americans don’t matter. A nationwide campaign is even harder for less well financed candidates and money becomes even more important than it is now. The electoral college has a protective function that acts as a fuse against a tyranny of the majority. It is much easier to scoop up votes in densely packed population centers than in sparsely populated rural areas. We would end up going from ignoring deep blue and deep red states to ignoring rural voters. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2019, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-hillarys-smack-down-of-sanders/844427/97 "2019-12-09T21:34:44Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I get the point about wanting to reduce the power of spoilers but I would say that a popular vote result in which the person who wins 48 to 46% is more “legitimate” than the one have now in which the 46% candidate wins. And spoilers seem to have that power now, with each state doing their individual popular vote in which the plurality wins … maybe more so since it can be a few votes they take in just a single state. > > (Quotes placed because of course it is legal and the according to the rules of the game so of course is in fact “legitimate” in that sense.) How do you know that the winner wouldn’t have gotten more of the popular vote if they were trying to get a majority of the popular vote rather than the electoral vote? That’s like saying that the football team with the the most yards should win the superbowl because they are obviously better. Well there are all sorts of decisions that would change in how a game is played if we scored games by yardage instead of touchdowns. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2019, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-hillarys-smack-down-of-sanders/844427/98 "2019-12-09T21:35:22Z")
To me rural voters are pretty much ignored now with the exception of Iowa and New Hampshire for the primaries. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2019, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-hillarys-smack-down-of-sanders/844427/99 "2019-12-09T22:56:31Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > A nationwide campaign is even harder for less well financed candidates and money becomes even more important than it is now. > > The electoral college has a protective function that acts as a fuse against a tyranny of the majority. I don’t see why either of these are necessarily the case. > [@](#): > > It is much easier to scoop up votes in densely packed population centers than in sparsely populated rural areas. We would end up going from ignoring deep blue and deep red states to ignoring rural voters. At least every vote would count the same, rural or urban. As we are right now, the millions of voters in NYC, LA, Chicago, Houston, Dallas, and many other big cities don’t matter at all. Seems ridiculous and anti-democratic to me that the biggest cities in the country don’t matter at all when it comes to electing presidents. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-hillarys-smack-down-of-sanders/844427/100 "2019-12-10T01:10:34Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t see why either of these are necessarily the case. > > At least every vote would count the same, rural or urban. As we are right now, the millions of voters in NYC, LA, Chicago, Houston, Dallas, and many other big cities don’t matter at all. Seems ridiculous and anti-democratic to me that the biggest cities in the country don’t matter at all when it comes to electing presidents. Of course they matter. They just aren’t all that matters. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-hillarys-smack-down-of-sanders/844427.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-hillarys-smack-down-of-sanders/844427.md?page=6)