# What do you think of interracial couples? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 28, 2012, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-interracial-couples/642331 "2012-11-28T01:55:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-interracial-couples/642331/281 "2012-12-06T15:54:14Z")
> [@taskmgr.exe](#): > > Sorry, I am little confused about that. Are you implying that her husband’s state of being a policeman helped her face no opposition from her own parents, compensating her husband’s being a protestant(=even tough her husband was a protestant)? The RUC (Police of NI) weren’t exactly popular among most Catholics during the Troubles. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-interracial-couples/642331/282 "2012-12-07T00:41:29Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > The RUC (Police of NI) weren’t exactly popular among most Catholics during the Troubles. Not only that, but being a policeman meant he was constantly living in danger. Many of his friends were killed during the Troubles. I’d understand if a family would have been reluctant to have their daughter date and marry a policeman during this time. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-interracial-couples/642331/283 "2012-12-07T11:22:52Z")
> [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > Not only that, but being a policeman meant he was constantly living in danger. Many of his friends were killed during the Troubles. I’d understand if a family would have been reluctant to have their daughter date and marry a policeman during this time. Ah yes, hadn’t thought of that angle. My uncle tried to join the RUC in the years before the Troubles but they wouldn’t have him. Just as well really in light of subsequent events. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-interracial-couples/642331/284 "2012-12-07T16:01:23Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I would recommend that people who are getting embroiled in discussion about race take a look at the participants in various race-oriented threads in the Pit and GD and then decide if this is a rabbit hole you want to go down. Yes, an unfortunate but thankfully small number of Board members have revealed themselves to be white supremacists. From my experience, there is absolutely no use engaging that sort of person in dialogue of any sort whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-interracial-couples/642331/285 "2012-12-07T17:58:46Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Ummm, does that mean yes or no?S > Is it your view that any time it’s difficult to draw a clear line between two groups or entities, any distinction between those two groups or entities is an illusion? > > Does the same reasoning apply to distinctions between neighborhoods in a city? > > Between different dialects of languages? > > Between different species? I think I was clear, but perhaps not. Your analogies don’t hold up. The categories we call “race” are essentially illusions born of ignorance and superficial judgments; they don’t hold up to biological examination. The differences between “white” and “black” are not at all like the differences between midtown and Lakeview Gardens (two Memphis neighborhoods). Incidentally, the distinction between biological species is not as clear as you seem to think it is. If you wish to learn more, this Wikipedia article on the [species problem](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species_problem) is a good place to start. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-interracial-couples/642331/286 "2012-12-07T22:23:27Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I think I was clear, but perhaps not. Your analogies don’t hold up. Why is it so hard to answer my question? I’m simply trying to find out if your reasoning is universal or if you are engaged in special pleading. You seem to be saying that since it is difficult to draw a clear line between races, any distinction between races is an illusion. I’m trying to figure out if your argument applies to any groups or entities between which it is difficult to draw a clear line. Or, if you are engaged in special pleading. It really is a very simple question. > [@](#): > > The categories we call “race” are essentially illusions born of ignorance and superficial judgments; they don’t hold up to biological examination. Well what’s a test you could do to see whether races “hold up to biological examination”? > [@](#): > > Incidentally, the distinction between biological species is not as clear as you seem to think it is. Lol, I don’t think it’s clear at all. And yet nobody seriously claims that species are “an illusion.” ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-interracial-couples/642331/287 "2012-12-07T22:27:30Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Why is it so hard to answer my question? I’m simply trying to find out if your reasoning is universal or if you are engaged in special pleading. I am not engaging in special pleading. I am saying that the various human races are not like the neighborhoods of a city. I am saying that your analogies are bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-interracial-couples/642331/288 "2012-12-07T22:33:59Z")
Nearly half of married black men in Minnesota are married to white women, one of, if not the highest rate in the US. I think of that, smile deeply and laugh at backwater hell holes like Mississippi. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-interracial-couples/642331/289 "2012-12-07T22:39:59Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I am not engaging in special pleading. Ok, so according to you, any time it’s difficult to draw a clear line between two groups or entities, the distinction between them is an illusion. Do I understand you correctly? > [@](#): > > I am saying that the various human races are not like the neighborhoods of a city. And how exactly are they different? Also, what’s a test you could do to see whether races “hold up to biological examination”? I’m trying to nail down your position. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-interracial-couples/642331/290 "2012-12-07T22:44:38Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Nearly half of married black men in Minnesota are married to white women, one of, if not the highest rate in the US. If they’re anything like the sole MN person I know, a black man who wants to marry me, that doesn’t mean they don’t absolutely despise them for being white. It does kind of fly in the face of his party line about how Seattle black people are just whitewashed unlike awesome MN black people blah blah blah. Possibly MN people are just crazy? It’s a small sample size, I realize, but it’s a whole lot of crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-interracial-couples/642331/291 "2012-12-07T23:07:07Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Ok, so according to you, any time it’s difficult to draw a clear line between two groups or entities, the distinction between them is an illusion. Do I understand you correctly? You are not stating my position correctly. Some groupings are not like other groupings. Neighborhoods are an example of groupings that hvae distinct differences. Central Gardens in Memphis has clear, quantifiable, and real differences from Lakeview Gardens in Memphis: location, average property value, proximity to amenities, etc. “White” persons and “black” persons have some superficial differences but far more similarities. There’s more genuineness to notions of culture than of race. I have more in common with a “white” person from Boston than I do with a “black” person from Nairobi. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-interracial-couples/642331/292 "2012-12-07T23:32:53Z")
> [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > Not only that, but being a policeman meant he was constantly living in danger. Many of his friends were killed during the Troubles. I’d understand if a family would have been reluctant to have their daughter date and marry a policeman during this time. Sure. Policemen were occasionally killed by Loyalist gangs, too, not just the IRA. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-interracial-couples/642331/293 "2012-12-08T07:05:22Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > You are not stating my position correctly. So that means no? > [@](#): > > Some groupings are not like other groupings. Neighborhoods are an example of groupings that hvae distinct differences. Central Gardens in Memphis has clear, quantifiable, and real differences from Lakeview Gardens in Memphis: location, average property value, proximity to amenities, etc. “White” persons and “black” persons have some superficial differences but far more similarities. There’s more genuineness to notions of culture than of race. I have more in common with a “white” person from Boston than I do with a “black” person from Nairobi. Ok, then what are your criteria for determining whether a grouping is illusory or not? Is it the presence or absence of quantifiable differences? The ease of drawing clear lines? Or something else? Also, what’s a test you could do to see whether races “hold up to biological examination”? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-interracial-couples/642331/294 "2012-12-08T13:20:11Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Also, what’s a test you could do to see whether races “hold up to biological examination”? Examine the genetic history to determine the most recent common ancestor of two “races” or ethnic groups. And scientists have done this- and found that there are “black” (or sub-Saharan African) populations that are more closely related, genetically, to non-“black” populations then to certain other far flung “black” populations. So any race that includes all black people will also include all non-black people (which makes just one race total for humans!). ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-interracial-couples/642331/295 "2012-12-08T15:52:25Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Yes, please do not engage me on the merits. That might subject your views to scrutiny. :rolleyes: I have nothing to prove, and I will not give people like you a platform if I can help it. Have a nice day! ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-interracial-couples/642331/296 "2012-12-08T16:02:53Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > I have nothing to prove, Of course not. > [@](#): > > and I will not give people like you a platform if I can help it. Of course not. > [@](#): > > Have a nice day! You too. ---
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-interracial-couples/642331/297 "2012-12-08T17:51:19Z")
> [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > Yes, I should have made that clearer. My boyfriend’s father lost a lot of friends to IRA violence but it was because they were police officers. I have never heard any stories about violence due to the relationship. I’ll ask him once I get home tonight. > > I was always impressed that his mum’s parents didn’t oppose the relationship though. Not because he was Protestant per se, but because he was a policeman. From what I understand from knowing both Catholics and Protestant Irish during the troubles there was less trouble about mixed relationships among the middle classes. Working class areas were almost completely segregated so peole just didn’t mix in any way at all. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-interracial-couples/642331/298 "2012-12-10T19:06:58Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Also, what’s a test you could do to see whether races “hold up to biological examination”? I hesitate to engage in conversation on this subject, sir or madam, because I suspect that your motives are somewhat distasteful and might lead me to being impolite. Well, that’s only half the reason; there’s also the fact that I’m really, really lazy. Anywho, someone in another thread has posted something that not only goes to my point but does so more competently than I could have, though with fewer wisecracks. > [@Race is non-existent](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/race-is-non-existent/643100/46): > > Would you consider taking a college-level molecular biology class to further your knowledge in this subject? I think you’ll find the subject enlightening. Here’s a bit of foreshadowing. Read carefully, I get paid to teach this stuff, there’ll be a test at the end: Human haplogroups consist of mostly silent mutations which means there’s a change in a nucleotide but due to the degeneracy (e.g. or, in layman’s terms: redundancy) of the genetic code, there’s no change in the resultant protein (the physical expression of the gene, or the phenotype). > > Now, using your example, this means while Europeans and Blacks have a change in nucleotide sequence, there is no change in the final protein. I’ll repeat: there’s no change in the final protein. There are evolutionary examples in which groups carry real, phenotypic changes that are passed down (e.g. Southern Europeans & CCR5 and Sub-saharan Africans & Hemoglobin S) but these were due to infection-induced bottlenecks, and these should be considered the exceptions not the rule. > > What you and the peanut gallery fail to see (because your knowledge of genes does not extend past year 1999) is that a phenotype does not emerge due to a genes alone; indeed, traits are an intricate interplay between genes and epigenetics (environment). If you need any proof of this unassailable fact, just look [here](http://www.mun.ca/biology/scarr/Cloned_Cat.html) where the fur coloration of a cat is different from its clone. Further, why do you think that nearly all suicide victims show epigenetic silencing of BDNF? It’s because the genes are responsive to the environment. > The OP is correct. Race does not exist in biology nor in reality. What we perceive as differences in characteristics (e.g. curly hair, narrow noses, full lips, brown skin, etc) are referred to as a specific [cline](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cline_(biology)) not a race. > > - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-interracial-couples/642331/299 "2012-12-11T12:35:00Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I hesitate to engage in conversation on this subject, sir or madam, because I suspect that your motives are somewhat distasteful and might lead me to being impolite. Lol. Either that or you do not want to admit your true criteria for holding that racial distinctions are an “illusion,” which is that you don’t like such distinctions. If your position is based on reason and not emotion, then it should be easy enough to answer my question. P.S. The quote you selected does not answer my question. If somebody wants to make an argument rejecting racial distinctions, then they need to be explicit about their criteria for accepting or rejecting distinctions in general. Otherwise, they are just engaged in emotion-driven special pleading. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-interracial-couples/642331/300 "2012-12-12T00:12:19Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Lol. Either that or you do not want to admit your true criteria for holding that racial distinctions are an “illusion,” which is that you don’t like such distinctions. > > If your position is based on reason and not emotion, then it should be easy enough to answer my question. > > P.S. The quote you selected does not answer my question. > > If somebody wants to make an argument rejecting racial distinctions, then they need to be explicit about their criteria for accepting or rejecting distinctions in general. Otherwise, they are just engaged in emotion-driven special pleading. Which particular group do you belong to? How do you plan on preserving its identity in an American context? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-interracial-couples/642331.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-interracial-couples/642331.md?page=16)