# What do you think of Obama's National Security Team **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 1, 2008, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-obamas-national-security-team/475198 "2008-12-01T16:49:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-obamas-national-security-team/475198/61 "2008-12-02T02:48:26Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Oh no, requiring voters to actually be citizens, the horror. Can you expand on why she was against that? Have you ever produced proof of citizenship when registering to vote? I’m betting you haven’t. ETA, John McCain was against it too. Did you vote for him? ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-obamas-national-security-team/475198/62 "2008-12-02T03:58:42Z")
I think the Napolitano pick is Obama being a very smart politician. No one wants to be governor of a major state in the next year. There are going to be ugly budget battles, fights with the education unions, and tax increases. So, Napolitano gets to leave Arizona in the hands of a Republican governor and she gets to go to Washington to get some experience. Then, she resigns and runs against McCain in 2010. Rather than running as an unpopular governor who raised taxes and hates our kids’ education, she runs as an experienced Washington politician. I"m hoping that Obama will eventually eliminate the Dept. of Homeland Security. It is an unnecessary department that was created as a knee jerk 9/11 reaction. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-obamas-national-security-team/475198/63 "2008-12-02T04:07:14Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Or Wesley Clark! Isn’t he ineligible for another year? Why would he be ineligible? I haven’t heard about that. But since Jones has advised Obama and is now on the inside I think he’s a likely choice. The story was that Gates initially wanted to quit on Jan. 20, so I doubt he serves out the next four years. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-obamas-national-security-team/475198/64 "2008-12-02T04:26:08Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Have you ever produced proof of citizenship when registering to vote? I’m betting you haven’t. I had to swear under oath that I was a U.S. citizen. Is it different in Arizona? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-obamas-national-security-team/475198/65 "2008-12-02T04:34:35Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > I had to swear under oath that I was a U.S. citizen. Is it different in Arizona? I don’t know, but I’ve voted in 4 different states and I’ve never had to prove citizenship. I’ve certainly never had to swear an oath. What state did you have to swear an oath in? That seems like a fairly ineffective proof of citizenship. Does it bother you that McCain opposed Prop 200? ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-obamas-national-security-team/475198/66 "2008-12-02T04:49:43Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t know, but I’ve voted in 4 different states and I’ve never had to prove citizenship. I’ve certainly never had to swear an oath. What state did you have to swear an oath in? That seems like a fairly ineffective proof of citizenship. [http://cms.dupageelections.com/uploads/JID37\_Website%20Registration%20Form.pdf](http://cms.dupageelections.com/uploads/JID37_Website%20Registration%20Form.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-obamas-national-security-team/475198/67 "2008-12-02T05:52:36Z")
Getting back to the picks… I pretty much agree with everything **Diogenes** said. The picks so far, like his picks for his economic team, show a willingness to choose experience and ability over ideology. Not that he’s putting conservatives into his government (nor should he have to), but these people are all serious policy people with sound judgment. This team is more centrist than Clinton’s first cabinet was. There’s not a Donna Shalala or Robert Reich in the bunch. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-obamas-national-security-team/475198/68 "2008-12-02T06:02:06Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Why would he [Wesley Clark] be ineligible? Ah, you got me. I can’t find a cite right offhand, but I thought I remembered hearing that a potential Secretary of Defense had to be retired (or out of) active duty military for 10 years prior to being confirmed, and Clark has only been out 8 or 9 years. I could be talking out my ass with a faulty memory though. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-obamas-national-security-team/475198/69 "2008-12-02T06:23:15Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Ah, you got me. I can’t find a cite right offhand, but I thought I remembered hearing that a potential Secretary of Defense had to be retired (or out of) active duty military for 10 years prior to being confirmed, and Clark has only been out 8 or 9 years. I could be talking out my ass with a faulty memory though. Colin Powell became Sec Def 8 years after retiring from the military. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-obamas-national-security-team/475198/70 "2008-12-02T11:18:20Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Thank you for your posts about Holder tim314. They take the edge off and ultimately I do trust Obama to do what’s best for the country. I’ll admit that my disappointment in Holder might partially be due to wanting either Vincent Bugliosi or Elliot Spitzer\* in that spot. Wild pipe dreams, I know. > > \*yeah, so he paid for hookers. I care? No. It’s not my business. He was a fighter against corruption and was targeted. Spitzer targeted the “corruption” that would advance his personal/political agenda. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-obamas-national-security-team/475198/71 "2008-12-02T11:35:28Z")
Ignore if too off-topic too early … 1. What’s with this Team of Rivals crap? Simply a way to further Obama as the second coming of Honest Abe perhaps? HRC is the only real rival… nothing compared to Lincoln’s cabinet. 2. What prompted all the smart folks to call for Bill to release his donor’s lists etc. now? Seems like that might have been pertinent back when HRC was running for president. 3. (Really off-topic but while I’m at it…) Have there been any post-election liberal media threads? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-obamas-national-security-team/475198/72 "2008-12-02T11:49:44Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > 1. What’s with this Team of Rivals crap? Simply a way to further Obama as the second coming of Honest Abe perhaps? HRC is the only real rival… nothing compared to Lincoln’s cabinet. Joe Biden ran against him. General Jones is a Republican, and a friend of John McCain. Bob Gates is a registered Independent. Jim Leach is a Republican. Bill Richardson ran against him. > [@](#): > > 1. What prompted all the smart folks to call for Bill to release his donor’s lists etc. now? Seems like that might have been pertinent back when HRC was running for president. Running for office is different from either winning the office or being appointed to the office. Anyone can run. > [@](#): > > 1. (Really off-topic but while I’m at it…) Have there been any post-election liberal media threads? If you use the word “liberal” the way you’ve used the words “rival” and “pertinent”, one can only wonder what your third question means. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-obamas-national-security-team/475198/73 "2008-12-02T14:38:01Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > 1. What’s with this Team of Rivals crap? Simply a way to further Obama as the second coming of Honest Abe perhaps? HRC is the only real rival… nothing compared to Lincoln’s cabinet. It’s become an irrtating catchphrase, but compared to other recent administrations I think Obama is going outside his base of supporters and advisers to a greater extent. And of course it’s nothing compared to Lincoln. Lincoln was a dark horse candidate elected from a young party and _needed_ to pick his rivals to shore up his support. Obama didn’t need to do that. What Lincoln did was rare and I don’t think many presidents would do it if they didn’t need to. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-obamas-national-security-team/475198/74 "2008-12-02T14:47:20Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > 1. What prompted all the smart folks to call for Bill to release his donor’s lists etc. now? Seems like that might have been pertinent back when HRC was running for president. The primary reason was to prevent any embarrassment to the Obama administration . ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-obamas-national-security-team/475198/75 "2008-12-02T14:52:17Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > I think the Napolitano pick is Obama being a very smart politician. No one wants to be governor of a major state in the next year. There are going to be ugly budget battles, fights with the education unions, and tax increases. So, Napolitano gets to leave Arizona in the hands of a Republican governor and she gets to go to Washington to get some experience. Then, she resigns and runs against McCain in 2010. Rather than running as an unpopular governor who raised taxes and hates our kids’ education, she runs as an experienced Washington politician. Unpopular governor? My sense of it is that Napolitano is well regarded in Arizona. Getting her out of there only makes sense since, IIRC, Napolitano is term limited and cannot run again anyway. She will be out in (what?) two years no matter if she walks on water. Getting her into the Obama cabinet keeps a promising democrat political career alive. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-obamas-national-security-team/475198/76 "2008-12-02T15:27:27Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > Spitzer targeted the “corruption” that would advance his personal/political agenda. You misspelled “Kenneth Starr.” Eliot Spitzer [targeted **real** corruption.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliot_Spitzer#Work_as_Attorney_General) The kind that **matters.** ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-obamas-national-security-team/475198/77 "2008-12-03T10:58:34Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Getting her out of there only makes sense since, IIRC, Napolitano is term limited and cannot run again anyway. She will be out in (what?) two years no matter if she walks on water. She could’ve/should’ve talked with Mike Bloomberg (NYC mayor) about that. 😉 Oh, and thank you, **Sam Stone** for the positive words. I’m rather enamoured with **Dio** ’s phrasing (in another thread) that Obama’s picks are “_stone-cold pragmatist_”. As an aside: do you feel a bit more comfortable now (not necessarily _totally_ comfortable, but _more_) with Obama’s win? I’m just wondering if his picks are doing anything to alleviate some of the pre-election misgivings/worries expressed by those in the non-nutjob contingent of conservative voters… ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-obamas-national-security-team/475198/78 "2008-12-03T11:16:04Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > By [Executive Order](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/01/20080104-6.html) the salary of Sec State (among others) was increased in January of 2008. The Constitution does not say Congress had to make the pay raise, just that a pay raise occurred during their tenure. To flip the argument the other way, suppose a president issued an executive order increasing all the cabinet salaries by $1 per year. Would that render all current members of Congress permanently ineligible for service in the cabinet? ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-obamas-national-security-team/475198/79 "2008-12-03T11:31:42Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Joe Biden ran against him. General Jones is a Republican, and a friend of John McCain. Bob Gates is a registered Independent. Jim Leach is a Republican. Bill Richardson ran against him.. You didn’t read the book did you? > [@Liberal](#): > > Running for office is different from either winning the office or being appointed to the office. Anyone can run.. We’re not talking Ralph Nader… in the beginning it was her nomination to lose . > [@Liberal](#): > > If you use the word “liberal” the way you’ve used the words “rival” and “pertinent”, one can only wonder what your third question means. Do a search on the term and you’ll figure it out. I’m sure you don’t agree with it but it’s out there. Seriously, there hasn’t been a post-election thread has there? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-obamas-national-security-team/475198/80 "2008-12-03T12:54:20Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > You didn’t read the book did you? Oh, I see. Only if one has read The Book can one engage in your discussion. Maybe you should take this over to Cafe Society. > [@](#): > > We’re not talking Ralph Nader… in the beginning it was her nomination to lose . What does that have to do with anything? There are legal reasons one has to make disclosures with respect to appointed offices, but one can run for elective office even if one is a multiple felon. > [@](#): > > Do a search on the term and you’ll figure it out. I’m sure you don’t agree with it but it’s out there. Seriously, there hasn’t been a post-election thread has there? How about you just make a point instead. I can’t use Google to read your mind. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-obamas-national-security-team/475198.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-obamas-national-security-team/475198.md?page=5)