# What do you think of the claim that the students from the massacre are 'too young' to speak? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 28, 2018, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-claim-that-the-students-from-the-massacre-are-too-young-to-speak/809733 "2018-02-28T05:23:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2018, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-claim-that-the-students-from-the-massacre-are-too-young-to-speak/809733/81 "2018-03-03T03:07:39Z")
We’re praising them because they’re making good choices. Staying in school is also a good choice. In jurisdictions where they would not be required to stay in school, if they chose to drop out, we would not be praising them for that. As to what expertise they have, that others lack: They know that the victims of gun violence are real people, who had real lives, which are now lost. That’s something that a great many people, even people with many more years under their belts, don’t really get. If nobody in your [Dunbar circle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number) has ever been a victim of gun violence, it doesn’t register to you as “real”, even though it objectively, factually is. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2018, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-claim-that-the-students-from-the-massacre-are-too-young-to-speak/809733/82 "2018-03-03T13:30:32Z")
And, again, it isn’t that they’re too young to speak, only that they have something to say that you would prefer not to have to reply to. ---
**Author:** ![carlb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carlb/32/5930_2.png) [@carlb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carlb)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2018, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-claim-that-the-students-from-the-massacre-are-too-young-to-speak/809733/83 "2018-03-03T14:11:18Z")
I think the students at Marjory Stoneman Douglas _may_ be a little too young to offer a lot of workable ideas for passing legislation, new regulations, or other technocratic issues. They simply don’t have the experience in government to know which levers to pull, how to move things through legislative or regulatory bodies, and so on. I would not give their opinions on such matters a lot of weight. They are, clearly, _ **not** _ too young to cry out for help. They are not too young to reprimand us adults for failing to keep them safe from this kind of harm. They are not too young to steel their resolve to make things better. They are not too young to energize others to start trying to remedy some of our worst issues with gun violence. And, for some of them, they are emphatically not too young to consider how they are going to cast their first votes in coming elections. It’s up to those of us with more experience to listen to them, to understand where they are coming from, and, if we agree with their broader points, to use our wisdom and experience to bring about whatever change we can manage. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-claim-that-the-students-from-the-massacre-are-too-young-to-speak/809733/84 "2018-03-04T15:39:43Z")
You’re never too young to speak, if you agree with me. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-claim-that-the-students-from-the-massacre-are-too-young-to-speak/809733/85 "2018-03-04T16:39:16Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Yet I were to suggest that all high school-aged kids should be free to make their own decisions about how to lead and use their lives in general, how many of those friends would agree? I can’t speak for your friends, but I’m onboard with that. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-claim-that-the-students-from-the-massacre-are-too-young-to-speak/809733/86 "2018-03-04T16:44:47Z")
> [@carlb](#): > > I think the students at Marjory Stoneman Douglas _may_ be a little too young to offer a lot of workable ideas for passing legislation, new regulations, or other technocratic issues. They simply don’t have the experience in government to know which levers to pull, how to move things through legislative or regulatory bodies, and so on. I would not give their opinions on such matters a lot of weight. > > They are, clearly, _ **not** _ too young to cry out for help. They are not too young to reprimand us adults for failing to keep them safe from this kind of harm. They are not too young to steel their resolve to make things better. They are not too young to energize others to start trying to remedy some of our worst issues with gun violence. And, for some of them, they are emphatically not too young to consider how they are going to cast their first votes in coming elections. > > It’s up to those of us with more experience to listen to them, to understand where they are coming from, and, if we agree with their broader points, to use our wisdom and experience to bring about whatever change we can manage. Well spoken. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-claim-that-the-students-from-the-massacre-are-too-young-to-speak/809733/87 "2018-03-05T07:18:19Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I think they may be too young and too emotionally traumatized by what happened to be able to properly weigh whether the populace as a whole is safer with gun ownership as it is or with it as the proponents of gun control desire it to be. I don’t know what that means: they should be able to speak their opinion. Trump can speak his opinion despite knowing fuck all about anything. > [@](#): > > I think they’re also too young to recognize and take into account the slippery slope that undoubtedly exists once gun control should get underway in earnest, and/or to judge whether the result of that slippery slope once it takes effect is ultimately beneficial or harmful. The slippery slope is a completely empty argument used by those who have no other recourse. It implicitly concedes the point, but implies, sans evidence, that if we do X now, some silly Y will happen in the future. If we allow gay marriage then bestiality is next! > [@](#): > > I also think they’re too young, too unsophisticated and too underfunded to be organizing nationwide rallies. Well yeah, a small group of _adults_ would be unable to organize events of this size for all these locations, so clearly they’ve had help. However, if you think that means they’ve been pushed into a position, I’d like to see any evidence of that. Some of the first interviews given to the press, while still at the location, already they were expressing views on gun control. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-claim-that-the-students-from-the-massacre-are-too-young-to-speak/809733/88 "2018-03-05T09:59:27Z")
> [@carlb](#): > > I think the students at Marjory Stoneman Douglas _may_ be a little too young to offer a lot of workable ideas for passing legislation, new regulations, or other technocratic issues. They simply don’t have the experience in government to know which levers to pull, how to move things through legislative or regulatory bodies, and so on. I would not give their opinions on such matters a lot of weight. > > They are, clearly, _ **not** _ too young to cry out for help. They are not too young to reprimand us adults for failing to keep them safe from this kind of harm. They are not too young to steel their resolve to make things better. They are not too young to energize others to start trying to remedy some of our worst issues with gun violence. And, for some of them, they are emphatically not too young to consider how they are going to cast their first votes in coming elections. > > It’s up to those of us with more experience to listen to them, to understand where they are coming from, and, if we agree with their broader points, to use our wisdom and experience to bring about whatever change we can manage. Of course they’re not too young to offer workable ideas for passing legislation. Most kids learn about how government works in high school government classes. Many high schools have student organization–they go by different names at different schools–in which students identify pressing social and political issues, write legislation, and lobby for passage of those bills in the state legislature There is, of course, a faculty advisor. And almost every school that has a forensics teams has kids who compete in the Student Congress event, where students introduce and debate bills using the same rules as state and federal legislatures. It takes a lot of drive and commitment, but it’s not that complicated. Naturally they’re getting advice from people with more experience. So does everyone who decides to organize marches and rallies. And while I agree wholeheartedly agree that it’s up to us to use our wisdom and experience to bring about change, I also hope we can remember that it’s precisely because our wisdom and experience haven’t changed anything that the teens decided to take matters into their own hands. Don’t sell them short. They’re capable of a lot more than you might think. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-claim-that-the-students-from-the-massacre-are-too-young-to-speak/809733/89 "2018-03-05T15:32:47Z")
They aren’t too young to speak, but their policy recommendations, if any, don’t get any special weight. Those recommendations have to stand or fall on their own merits. OTOH there is a reason we don’t let 16 year olds vote. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-claim-that-the-students-from-the-massacre-are-too-young-to-speak/809733/90 "2018-03-05T15:53:18Z")
The resistance to policy changes is based largely on the ability of the resisters to consider gun deaths as abstractions, somehow not involving real people. The students (don’t call them children or kids, because they aren’t, not anymore) have the value of shoving real consequences into the resisters’ faces, perhaps breaking through the mental block that has obstructed addressing the problem for so long. They also have no patience with diverting the discussion safely into definitions of terms, and can keep the discussion focused on results instead. Most current high school seniors will be able to vote \*this \*November. Juniors and sophomores will be able to vote in the \*next \*Presidential election. And they’re pissed, for good reason. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-claim-that-the-students-from-the-massacre-are-too-young-to-speak/809733/91 "2018-03-05T16:27:17Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > … And they’re pissed, for good reason. Do you base this claim on some polling data you’ve seen, or is your impression based off the interviews of a dozen or so MSD students? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-claim-that-the-students-from-the-massacre-are-too-young-to-speak/809733/92 "2018-03-05T16:31:30Z")
No, I guess you’re right, they’re probably all cool with getting shot at. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-claim-that-the-students-from-the-massacre-are-too-young-to-speak/809733/93 "2018-03-05T16:36:24Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Do you base this claim on some polling data you’ve seen, or is your impression based off the interviews of a dozen or so MSD students? He’s probably guessing that being angry at the relentless opposition to gun policy changes is a natural consequence of seeing your friends and teachers shot to death and very nearly being killed yourself by yet another rampaging lunatic with a gun on yet another day in America. I don’t think you really need a poll for that. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-claim-that-the-students-from-the-massacre-are-too-young-to-speak/809733/94 "2018-03-05T16:37:52Z")
The comment about seeing victims as abstractions, numbers, and not real people applies here as well. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-claim-that-the-students-from-the-massacre-are-too-young-to-speak/809733/95 "2018-03-05T16:44:46Z")
[A growing number of teens are running for office](http://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2018/02/19/kids-these-days-politicians), and gun sanity is a central plank in many of their platforms. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-claim-that-the-students-from-the-massacre-are-too-young-to-speak/809733/96 "2018-03-05T16:58:14Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > He’s probably guessing … That’s all I needed to know. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-claim-that-the-students-from-the-massacre-are-too-young-to-speak/809733/97 "2018-03-05T17:14:17Z")
No, it is not, sadly. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-claim-that-the-students-from-the-massacre-are-too-young-to-speak/809733/98 "2018-03-05T17:15:29Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > No, it is not, sadly. Hey, you made an unsubstantiated claim without credible evidence to support it. It’s ok. It happens. We’ll both carry on just fine. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-claim-that-the-students-from-the-massacre-are-too-young-to-speak/809733/99 "2018-03-05T17:23:27Z")
When, or if, the point finally dawns on you, do please tell us, won’t you? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-claim-that-the-students-from-the-massacre-are-too-young-to-speak/809733/100 "2018-03-05T17:24:33Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > When, or if, the point finally dawns on you, do please tell us, won’t you? The point is you are imagining / fantasizing about some wider movement from a handful of CNN interviews and the like. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-claim-that-the-students-from-the-massacre-are-too-young-to-speak/809733.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-claim-that-the-students-from-the-massacre-are-too-young-to-speak/809733.md?page=6)