# What do you think of the hypothesis that tipping culture is a form of sexism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 19, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-hypothesis-that-tipping-culture-is-a-form-of-sexism/666659 "2013-08-19T20:43:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-hypothesis-that-tipping-culture-is-a-form-of-sexism/666659/41 "2013-08-22T23:34:18Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I have no great attachment to the current tipping system in restaurants, and would be fine with another system. > > But if Jay Porter is right, why bother with this “service charge” nonsense at all? Why not just pay the entire staff a decent wage, and charge the customers the appropriate prices for their food? > > Why pretend that a steak dinner costs $30 and that a $6 “service fee” is something separate? Why not just charge $36? It’s all coming out of the customer’s pocket one way or another anyway! In addition to the lack of sticker shock, it does have the advantage of giving the servers more money if they are efficient and busy, and saves the restaurant money on times when the place is dead. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-hypothesis-that-tipping-culture-is-a-form-of-sexism/666659/42 "2013-08-23T00:41:26Z")
> [@](#): > > What about claim two? Do you think that it’s harder for a manager to convince mediocre servers that they need to step it up if the tips are telling them they’re doing all right? It’s hard to convince anyone working in a restaurant that they need to work harder. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-hypothesis-that-tipping-culture-is-a-form-of-sexism/666659/43 "2013-08-23T04:42:50Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > I remember when I visited NZ for 7 weeks, back in 1985. No tipping was the rule, and the result was that only the most expensive restaurants had waitstaff. Everything else was self-serve. Sorry, but I like going to my favorite diners, where the food is cheap, the service is good, and the coffe is hot. Self-serves are fine, too, but not exclusively. I dunno where you went or what you ate, but self serve in restaurants is certainly NOT the norm in NZ. And in my experience (yes I’m a Kiwi) I generally get good service where-ever I go - from the “greasy spoon” style restaurant to the very expensive. Further, I would say that how well a waiter (be it female or male) does their job is more about their attitude and work-ethic than how much tip they are likely to earn. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-hypothesis-that-tipping-culture-is-a-form-of-sexism/666659/44 "2013-08-23T05:56:43Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > I’m a little bothered when people try to make it sound like women are all feminazis and trying to make men hate themselves, but I’ll try to let your second sentence go. It was meant tongue-in-cheek. I’m certainly not one of the “White men are now the ones who are discriminated against!” brigade. Also the article was written by a guy, so I wouldn’t be accusing women of anything here. > [@](#): > > But it’s pretty simple: you’re not a bad guy if you treat your waitress with respect, don’t make her feel uncomfortable with your flirting, tip her decently if she does her job well, or talk with the manager if she doesn’t do her job well, and don’t make ridiculous demands. Treat your waitress basically like you would treat your waiter. Don’t penalize her if she’s not super perky and friendly and doesn’t have a lot of makeup on her face, just like you wouldn’t penalize a waiter for the same. Obviously, but I was talking about in terms of the article and what it says about tipping. I was rhetorically asking the author what is the right behaviour here. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-hypothesis-that-tipping-culture-is-a-form-of-sexism/666659/45 "2013-08-23T06:05:08Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > I’ve been to countries where they don’t tip: Ugly servers, slow service and general unpleasantness was rampant. In the US where they need to earn tips you can sense the hustle from them. Whipping them would probably work, too. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-hypothesis-that-tipping-culture-is-a-form-of-sexism/666659/46 "2013-08-23T14:55:25Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Further, I would say that how well a waiter (be it female or male) does their job is more about their attitude and work-ethic than how much tip they are likely to earn. I bet you never worked as a waiter. I haven’t either, but I’ve lived with those who have. Tips are important to them, and they hussle to get them. They hussle in two ways: one, to serve as efficiently as possibly (cover as many tables/seats), and two: to keep the customer happy. Sure, a good waitperson wants to do these things regardless of tips, but if you add income to the equation, it amplifies the effect. Ask someone who’s worked in a restaurant or bar. Efficient servers rake in the tips, even though the hot ones might get higher tips per table. I haven’t read the freakonomics article yet, though. The summary posted here seems to contradict my viewpoint, and I’ll be interested to see what they have to say. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-hypothesis-that-tipping-culture-is-a-form-of-sexism/666659/47 "2013-08-26T02:14:54Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > I bet you never worked as a waiter. > > I haven’t either, but I’ve lived with those who have. Tips are important to them, and they hussle to get them. They hussle in two ways: one, to serve as efficiently as possibly (cover as many tables/seats), and two: to keep the customer happy. Sure, a good waitperson wants to do these things regardless of tips, but if you add income to the equation, it amplifies the effect. > > Ask someone who’s worked in a restaurant or bar. Efficient servers rake in the tips, even though the hot ones might get higher tips per table. > > I haven’t read the freakonomics article yet, though. The summary posted here seems to contradict my viewpoint, and I’ll be interested to see what they have to say. Waiter no…barman, busser, shop assistant, commission sales, gardener …yes. I have always been motivated more by doing my job well than by anything else - the tips are a validation of a job well done, but not necessary for it ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-hypothesis-that-tipping-culture-is-a-form-of-sexism/666659/48 "2013-08-26T03:54:27Z")
it’s obvious that Jay Porter hates tipping. Other than calling it racism, what better way to show how very evil it is that call is sexism, too?:rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-hypothesis-that-tipping-culture-is-a-form-of-sexism/666659.md?page=2)