# What do you think of The Mamas and the Papas? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 7, 2005, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-mamas-and-the-papas/311417 "2005-07-07T05:00:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-mamas-and-the-papas/311417/21 "2005-07-07T17:15:59Z")
I think they’re fantastic. I bought their Greatest Hits album last month, and it’s pretty much the only CD I’ve listened to since. While I think they had some really great songs, I’m amazed at some of the crap–specifically the covers-- they put out too (“Twist and Shout” and “My Girl” I’m looking at you!) Happy ---
**Author:** ![CBCD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@CBCD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBCD)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-mamas-and-the-papas/311417/22 "2005-07-07T17:22:47Z")
I saw the Mamas and the Papas in concert in 1966 in Washington, DC. I loved them, and was over the moon to see them in concert. Also on the bill were **Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels, ? and the Mysterians** (96 Tears), and \*\*The Left Banke \*\* (Just Walk Away Renee). I was still in grade school. It was pure joy to be a teenybopper on that day. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-mamas-and-the-papas/311417/23 "2005-07-07T17:40:17Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > One of the women was probably John’s daughter Mackenzie Philips (best known as Julie from One Day at a Time) who was part of the re-incarnated touring version of the group. Not at the time I saw them. On of the singers was Mama Lisa, and the other I forget, but I would have recognized Mackenzie Philips on stage. I know they toured with many different women as singers. ---
**Author:** ![kelly5078](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6f9a4e/32.png) [@kelly5078](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kelly5078)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-mamas-and-the-papas/311417/24 "2005-07-07T18:12:16Z")
I remember that at one time Spanky MacFarlane was with them. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-mamas-and-the-papas/311417/25 "2005-07-07T18:42:33Z")
> [@kelly5078](#): > > I remember that at one time Spanky MacFarlane was with them. I saw them in concert with Spanky taking Cass’ parts. (At that time Spanky was also pretty much able to match Cass’ profile). She was a good alto singer, and had enough stage presence to remind people she had fronted a group, but her voice was no competition for Cass Elliot. ---
**Author:** ![Talon\_Karrde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Talon\_Karrde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Talon_Karrde)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-mamas-and-the-papas/311417/26 "2005-07-07T18:44:35Z")
I’d never heard about the story behind the band. Interesting. I’ll have to see if they have that episode on dvd. It’s cool to see that all you folks like them. They had some great stuff. But man, I bet some of their not-so-good songs are really bad. I can’t picture them doing Twist and Shout. I don’t remember what other songs of theirs I like, besides Monday, Monday. I know that the last time my dad was listening to it in the car, I liked several of them, but don’t remember anything about them or know their names. Maybe I’ll have to borrow one of his cds- or even better, see if he has any of their albums on vinyl! ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-mamas-and-the-papas/311417/27 "2005-07-07T18:55:10Z")
I like their Twist & Shout. What’s the point of a cover if you’re going to do it exactly the same? I don’t like their Dancin’ In the Streets cover much, thoug – it gets too silly. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-mamas-and-the-papas/311417/28 "2005-07-07T20:22:18Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Must . . . not . . . make . . . Cass Elliott/Karen Carpenter joke . . . You evil woman you! (But delightfully so.) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-mamas-and-the-papas/311417/29 "2005-07-07T21:35:18Z")
I’ve seen the 1988 documentary, Straight Shooters, about the group. It is a fascinating story. Their music was beautiful, their lives, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![fishbicycle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aeb1de/32.png) [@fishbicycle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fishbicycle)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-mamas-and-the-papas/311417/30 "2005-07-07T21:48:40Z")
I saw them in Toronto in the early '90s with Spanky McFarlane as Cass and Mackenzie Phillips as her mom; their special guest was Scott McKenzie. It was pretty nice all around - nice to see them where I lived, nice to see that they were still working. This was a package show, with The Turtles and some other folks I can’t remember now. A related aside: when my mom was going to buy me a record player for Xmas, she and a neighbor were shopping for records. Their choices came down to The Monkees’ “Headquarters” or The Mamas & The Papas’ “If You Can Believe Your Eyes & Ears”. My mother’s opinion was that TM&TP looked too much like hippies. I got the Monkees album. ---
**Author:** ![Kilvert\_s\_Pagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@Kilvert\_s\_Pagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilvert_s_Pagan)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-mamas-and-the-papas/311417/31 "2005-07-07T22:48:47Z")
> [@fishbicycle](#): > > …I got the Monkees album. So instead of _Monday, Monday_ and _California Dreamin’_ you got _Randy Scouse Git_ and _Zilch_? Doesn’t seem fair… Even though I LIKE Randy Scouse Git… ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-mamas-and-the-papas/311417/32 "2005-07-07T23:53:19Z")
In high school, four of us tried to do some of the Mamas and Papas songs…mind you, the four of us were in choir and had been singing for many years. It was not easy trying to copy that sound, and even on our best days, we never came close. Their songs may sound like easy fluff to the non-fans, but when you realize how tight those vocals were, what they accomplished was truly magical. I can only imagine how much fun it would have been to be a part of that group - in the beginning at least - and creating those songs and hearing them for the first time. ---
**Author:** ![fishbicycle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aeb1de/32.png) [@fishbicycle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fishbicycle)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-mamas-and-the-papas/311417/33 "2005-07-08T00:22:18Z")
> [@Kilvert's Pagan](#): > > So instead of _Monday, Monday_ and _California Dreamin’_ you got _Randy Scouse Git_ and _Zilch_? Doesn’t seem fair… > Even though I LIKE Randy Scouse Git… Well, I got “For Pete’s Sake” and “Sunny Girlfriend” and “No Time” and “You Told Me” and “Early Morning Blues And Greens” as well, so it wasn’t a loss by any means! “HQ” remains one of my favorite albums. And I _love_ “Randy Scouse Git”! I also own TM&TP catalogue now. ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-mamas-and-the-papas/311417/34 "2005-07-08T02:47:55Z")
Definitely one of my all time favorite bands. They were big when I was a teenybopper, so many of their songs bring back fond memories of the hippie era. If I was forced to choose a top 10 favorite songs from that era, I am sure at least 2 would be from M&P. California Dreamin’ Monday, Monday I Saw Her Again Creeque Alley Twelve-Thirty (young girls are coming to the canyon) Dream a Little Dream of Me Great stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-mamas-and-the-papas/311417/35 "2005-07-08T02:48:40Z")
Hmm. Half a dozen cover songs by a group who required studio musicians to achieve a goovy sound vs. the Monkees album on which they first wrote all the songs and played all the instruments? Seems like a pretty good trade-off to me. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![fishbicycle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aeb1de/32.png) [@fishbicycle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fishbicycle)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-mamas-and-the-papas/311417/36 "2005-07-08T03:07:06Z")
[nitpick] Sorry to be hijacking this towards a discussion of The Monkees, but they didn’t write all the songs on this record. They just played most of the instruments. For songwriting credits, Pete gets one, Micky gets one, Mike gets three, they all get two. The rest are Boyce/Hart, Mann/Weil, Hildebrand/Keller, one’s by their producer Chip Douglas under a pseudonym, and they gave the writing credit for another to their engineer, Hank Cicalo, in appreciation. [/nitpick] I think I’d have to choose “Creeque Alley” as my fave TM&TP song. I’ve got “Straight Shooter” on videotape, too. Funny, fascinating and sad story. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-mamas-and-the-papas/311417/37 "2005-07-08T06:42:02Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Must . . . not . . . make . . . Cass Elliott/Karen Carpenter joke . . . What joke? It’s a fact that if Mama Cass had given Karen Carpenter a bite of her ham sandwich, both would be alive today. What’s so funny about that? ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-mamas-and-the-papas/311417/38 "2005-07-08T06:48:53Z")
> [@Talon Karrde](#): > > I don’t hear this band mentioned much in the context of great older bands, so I was wondering what the general opinion of them was from other dopers. > > My dad’s a fan of them so I’ve been hearing them all my life, but lately I’ve been starting to really appreciate their music. I love the way their harmonies sound, and some of their songwriting’s great. “California Dreamin’” is a great song. One of the better vocal groups of the sixties. Their vocals were really tight. They were friends with the Byrds, Lovin’ Spoonful, Jefferson Airplane. Cass’s style, both vocally and lifestyle, influenced Grace Slick, Mama Cowsill, Janis Joplin, Spanky of our Gang. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-mamas-and-the-papas/311417/39 "2005-07-08T07:02:09Z")
> [@Wendell Wagner](#): > > It’s also interesting that the song “California Dreaming” is about Michelle. After all, who else in the group would care about California? Not John, whose father was a Marine officer (I think) and, in so far as he had a permanent home as a child, lived in the northeastern U.S. Not Cass, who grew up in Baltimore. And certainly not Denny, who grew up in Nova Scotia. It was Michelle who was miserable about having to spend winters in New York. The song was written while they were stuck on the east coast. Creeque Alley chronicles the groups history. All the love songs John wrote were about him and Michelle. As you can surmise from the songs, they were constantly breaking up and coming back together. Neither of them were exactly faithful to each other. What ultimately broke them up was two separate events: Denny’s attraction to and eventually hooking up with Michelle and John’s jealousy when they broke up, when Michelle started dating a Byrd. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-mamas-and-the-papas/311417/40 "2005-07-08T07:08:52Z")
> [@Ellen Cherry](#): > > I hope I get this right. I might have seen it on the VH1 Behind the Music doc. It’s about the production of California Dreamin.’ Someone else recorded the main vocals with the girls doing the backup. It was decided later to use Denny’s voice as the lead, so the original track was removed and Denny’s laid in, preserving the original back-up. So the record was totally created, new when it was mixed. For some reason this fascinates me, even though I know records are made with multiple tracks. > > Regarding the affairs, to top it all off, Cass was in love with Denny for the entire time the group existed, so we have her torment to add. Michelle was young and it was evident in the interviews she was not proud of her behavior as a “Mama.” The song was supposed to be the follow up hit for Barry Maguire of “Eve of destruction”. But the producer, Lou Adler liked the vocals in the demo without Barry so much, he decided to delete him and produce the MnP’s instead. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-mamas-and-the-papas/311417.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-mamas-and-the-papas/311417.md?page=3)