# What do you think of the "natural beauty/no makeup" movement? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 15, 2015, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-natural-beauty-no-makeup-movement/725199 "2015-07-15T01:31:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-natural-beauty-no-makeup-movement/725199/81 "2015-07-16T15:04:55Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > I’m all for questioning (although acceptable threshold is a concept you should look up), I just don’t understand how a personal preference becomes grounds for judgment of other people. Yes, why are women who \*choose \*\*not \*_to wear make up_ seen as less valuable by 2/3 of businesses? Shouldn’t their personal preferences be respected? Not to mention that for _some_ women it’s not about personal preference, it’s about personal health (I did mention that _actual doctors_ have told me for years to avoid all make up, in my case it’s medical advice, not “preference”). The judgement is about women who choose to _wear_ make up, it’s about women who _do not_. And yeah, some people are epicly bad at applying make up. I sort of expect teenagers to go through a phase of that because, well, teenagers. When you’re talking about 30, 40, 50 year women it gets sort of sad. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-natural-beauty-no-makeup-movement/725199/82 "2015-07-16T15:11:31Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > One other quick thing, so we don’t have to hear additional descriptions of Broomstick’s disgusting pus filled facial sores – I understand some people have sensitive skin and therefore cannot wear makeup. That’s not the same as toxicity in the general population. :dubious: I do believe you’re the first person to mention the word “pus” here… ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-natural-beauty-no-makeup-movement/725199/83 "2015-07-16T15:23:38Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > I’m all for questioning (although acceptable threshold is a concept you should look up), I just don’t understand how a personal preference becomes grounds for judgment of other people. > > For example, I don’t watch prime time television. I don’t need to trump up some nasty finger-pointing at those who do – I just don’t care for it. I fail to understand why on the topic of make up and many others, there has to be such nasty comments. > > I have to go now and smear chemicals on my face. I didn’t realize it was a requirement – I just enjoy how I look with lead, mercury and formaldehyde on my face. I guess I’ll just have to deal with the tremendous tumors I’m going to get on my lips. Although no one has yet provided any actual scientific evidence that indicates make up is toxic when used properly. If you want to use a tanning bed, never wear a seat belt, huff toluene, drink yourself into a stupor nightly, or slather carcinogens on your skin, feel free. I’m going to judge those all as potentially self-destructive activities with little benefit and assume you are either ignorant of the detrimental effect these activities could have on your life and health or value them above your physical well-being. Sorry if that sounds judgemental of your choices, but why do you care? Why do you think your choices are above judgment? This is a discussion about wearing vs. not wearing makeup. No one is mocking you in the street and making nasty comments about how you look. I think you probably do understand that makeup does contain harmful ingredients, but you don’t want to believe it or stop using it so you are upset that it has been pointed out and feel bad that you don’t care to stop the self-destructive behavior. Putting your health on the back burner and ignoring the potential for long-term negative consequences is pretty normal really, but the person that notices is not out to get you. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-natural-beauty-no-makeup-movement/725199/84 "2015-07-16T15:32:51Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Propylparaben can cause skin reactions in the amounts used in lipstick in particularly sensitive or allergic individuals. This is a silly thing to say. Anything can cause a reaction in people who are particularly sensitive or allergic to that thing. That’s what being sensitive to or allergic to _mean_. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-natural-beauty-no-makeup-movement/725199/85 "2015-07-16T15:35:45Z")
Yes, but some substances are more likely to cause reactions than others. Those ingredients cause that sort of problem more frequently than many others. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-natural-beauty-no-makeup-movement/725199/86 "2015-07-16T15:39:09Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Yes, but some substances are more likely to cause reactions than others. Those ingredients cause that sort of problem more frequently than many others. When you are highlighting “particularly sensitive or allergic individuals,” you aren’t talking about a problem ingredient. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-natural-beauty-no-makeup-movement/725199/87 "2015-07-16T15:42:06Z")
I have no dog in this fight, but in the interest of providing unbiased information, I give you this [link.](http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancercauses/othercarcinogens/athome/cosmetics) to the American Cancer Society page on cosmentics and cancer. At best all we can say for sure is “no one really knows”: > [@](#): > > Federal and international agencies who try to determine if a substance causes cancer typically classify an exposure as being either a known human carcinogen, probably carcinogenic to humans, or possibly carcinogenic to humans. Not surprisingly, most chemicals that make these lists fall into the possibly carcinogenic category, meaning there is potential for cancer but no evidence or only limited evidence of this in humans. Most often, this means that no epidemiologic studies have been done or those that have been done have serious limitations. Just saying something is “toxic” really doesn’t give much information. Almonds contain cyanide, for instance. Wild almonds contain enough in as few as a dozen nuts to kill a person. Commercially available domesticated almonds contain the same chemical, but it would take somewhere north of 1,600 nuts to reach toxic levels in a human. Water is toxic in large enough doses. It’s all about the quantity, and that is where the data on cosmetics becomes very scarce. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-natural-beauty-no-makeup-movement/725199/88 "2015-07-16T15:43:55Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > but it would take somewhere north of 1,600 nuts to reach toxic levels in a human. You can get that much exposure to nuts in one hour on the internet! ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-natural-beauty-no-makeup-movement/725199/89 "2015-07-16T15:48:30Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > When you are highlighting “particularly sensitive or allergic individuals,” you aren’t talking about a problem ingredient. How about lead? The FDA found lead in every lipstick they tested ( [Limiting Lead in Lipstick and Other Cosmetics | FDA](http://www.fda.gov/Cosmetics/ProductsIngredients/Products/ucm137224.htm#expanalyses) ) and they consider acceptable level of lead ingestion to be zero. That’s for everyone, not just “lead-sensitive” individuals. They still say wearing the lipstick is okay, just don’t lick your lips or ever eat or drink with it on! Sounds pretty safe to put all over your mouth, huh? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-natural-beauty-no-makeup-movement/725199/90 "2015-07-16T15:52:23Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > How about lead? The FDA found lead in every lipstick they tested ( [Limiting Lead in Lipstick and Other Cosmetics | FDA](http://www.fda.gov/Cosmetics/ProductsIngredients/Products/ucm137224.htm#expanalyses) ) and they consider acceptable level of lead ingestion to be zero. That’s for everyone, not just “lead-sensitive” individuals. They still say wearing the lipstick is okay, just don’t lick your lips or ever eat or drink with it on! Sounds pretty safe to put all over your mouth, huh? So, different things are different. I see. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-natural-beauty-no-makeup-movement/725199/91 "2015-07-16T15:54:48Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > So, different things are different. I see. Huh? A lot of people do eat and drink with their mouths. If you don’t, that’s cool and all, but it is very common, dare I say “normal” even. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-natural-beauty-no-makeup-movement/725199/92 "2015-07-16T15:56:23Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > Huh? A lot of people do eat and drink with their mouths. If you don’t, that’s cool and all, but it is very common, dare I say “normal” even. I wasn’t talking about lead, nor about dangerous things in makeup in general. So you may tell me about lead to your heart’s content and it will not actually change my position on the topic I was addressing. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-natural-beauty-no-makeup-movement/725199/93 "2015-07-16T16:04:01Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I wasn’t talking about lead, nor about dangerous things in makeup in general. So you may tell me about lead to your heart’s content and it will not actually change my position on the topic I was addressing. It’s almost like I was not trying to change your opinion on that, but rather mentioning the fact that lead is not something one should ingest in any quantity at all, and thus could reasonably be considered to be a bad thing to paint a ring of around your food-hole every day, regardless of how you feel about chemicals that cause an obvious reaction in sensitive individuals. If some people immediately suffer from immediate obvious negative effects from a chemical, the idea that it might not be so great for anybody does have some merit and could warrant further investigation is not so crazy either. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-natural-beauty-no-makeup-movement/725199/94 "2015-07-16T16:08:53Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > It’s almost like I was not trying to change your opinion on that, but rather mentioning the fact that lead is not something one should ingest in any quantity at all, and thus could reasonably be considered to be a bad thing to paint a ring of around your food-hole every day, regardless of how you feel about chemicals that cause an obvious reaction in sensitive individuals. Yes, I heard you. Different things are different. > [@](#): > > If some people immediately suffer from immediate obvious negative effects from a chemical, the idea that it might not be so great for anybody does have some merit and could warrant further investigation is not so crazy either. You think you might be harmed by things because I’m allergic to or sensitive to them? I don’t think you’re going to be happy with where that leads. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-natural-beauty-no-makeup-movement/725199/95 "2015-07-16T16:28:47Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > No one “needs” to have a white-collar professional job either but if you’re a woman getting one without wearing make up is going to be a LOT harder. Most of my woman friends, including the one I’m married to, don’t use makeup. Yet, other than during the Great Recession, they haven’t had problems finding work. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-natural-beauty-no-makeup-movement/725199/96 "2015-07-16T16:52:13Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > You think you might be harmed by things because I’m allergic to or sensitive to them? I don’t think you’re going to be happy with where that leads. Not _you_, individual person, significant portions of the population. When the canary is having trouble, it’s time to head out of the coal mine. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-natural-beauty-no-makeup-movement/725199/97 "2015-07-16T18:56:37Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Most of my woman friends, including the one I’m married to, don’t use makeup. Yet, other than during the Great Recession, they haven’t had problems finding work. Oh, sure, before the Great Recession I didn’t have trouble finding work either, but when the crap hit the fan it was just one more way to whittle down the pool of eligible candidates. This will also vary from one location to another due to local culture. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-natural-beauty-no-makeup-movement/725199/98 "2015-07-16T19:39:58Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > No, really, some of it IS toxic. These days nail polish is probably the worst offender but quite a bit of it is less than healthy. > > Hair dye can also be a problem. Not just for women - Grecian Formula hair coloring, targeted at men, contains lead acetate. In the US, not in Europe, where lead acetate is banned. Oh, yeah, that’s not good for you… I have no idea how that manages to still be legal. I haven’t yet seen anything that would tell me that makeup is actually “toxic”, beyond articles quoting scary-sounding ingredients, without mentioning the danger level of the ingredients vs the amount actually found in the makeup. The dose makes the poison. Hair dye…yeah, I’d forgotten about lead acetate in Grecian Formula, but I tend to lighten my hair, not darken it. ---
**Author:** ![Q.N.Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3da27b/32.png) [@Q.N.Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.N.Jones)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-natural-beauty-no-makeup-movement/725199/99 "2015-07-16T21:05:40Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Yes, why are women who \*choose \*\*not \*_to wear make up_ seen as less valuable by 2/3 of businesses? Shouldn’t their personal preferences be respected? A lot of business owners/managers really believe that physical attractiveness in the women who work there will help their business. And by that, I mean they want female employees who will be conventionally alluring to men. This tends to mean they wear makeup, sexy fashions, etc. And, in some instances, I have seen them be right. Some clients and VIPs really will show up more/throw their business your way if they really like being around your office. And part of that sometimes is, they like flirting with that sexy receptionist when they come in the door. Or looking down the blouse of the hot administrator during the necessary but boring meetings. I was no-makeup for a lot of my career, and that definitely attracted a certain type of man (usually older) in a big (and often slightly creepy) way. So there were times I was very aware I got a career advantage for _not_ wearing it/looking the way I do. Is that fair? Nope. I’m pretty confident it happened, though, because some of them made comments. I think it’s a nice ideal, that we should respect others’ looks choices, but I think it’s unlikely to happen because there are some primal reactions, and strong social conventions, getting in the way. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2015, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-natural-beauty-no-makeup-movement/725199/100 "2015-07-17T02:24:51Z")
Well, since Grecian Fomula and other progressive dye products have been known to be high in lead for decades, people should freakin’ know better. > [@AnaMen](#): > > I don’t need a “makeup study” to tell me that mercury and lead don’t belong near my mouth and eyes. The unsecret ingredients in makeup are poisonous to ingest and can be absorbed by your skin. Those facts are not questionable or deserving of deep inquiry as far as I’m concerned. What levels are “safe” is immaterial to me, since there are no health benefits I am eschewing by not wearing makeup. There’s probably some “safe” level of lead I could add to my food too, but I’m just going to try my best to eat lead-free anyway. Which means there aren’t any easily-available studies that demonstrate the likelihood of being \*actually \*harmed by lipstick, but there are lots of web pages that will tell you, “ZOMG!!! LEAD IN MAKEUP!!!” without any mention of amount or potential for damage. The CDC considers dirt to be uncomtaminated by lead when there is up to 50 ppm (parts per million). A lipstick contains from .009 on up (I think the highest I saw while looking up actual facts and data was around 8 ppm). How much lipstick will you have to eat to actually have a problem? _Candy_, BTW, can legally have up to .1 ppm. In 2010, the FDA tested 13 samples of apple juice, grape juice, peach slices, pears, mixed fruit and fruit cocktail for lead. There was lead in all of the samples, but less than the amount considered unsafe for consumption. If you don’t want to wear makeup, fine, but don’t go on about it being “toxic”, like it’s been whipped up with water from Three Mile Island. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-natural-beauty-no-makeup-movement/725199.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-natural-beauty-no-makeup-movement/725199.md?page=6)