# What do you think of the new National Security Strategy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 21, 2002, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-new-national-security-strategy/128920 "2002-09-21T02:50:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2002, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-new-national-security-strategy/128920/21 "2002-09-22T04:37:59Z")
_“How do you know the US is better?”_ Go count patents and papers. US biotech is far larger than Chinese biotech. An attack need not be undetectable, merely the fact that it actually is an attack. That deception is much easier to carry off with bioweapons than with bombs. _“So unilaterally attacking Chinese agriculture without provocation and possibly killing millions through a famine is “moral”?”_ I wasn’t arguing that it is, merely that your reliance on the Chinese ability to retaliate being a disincentive to US action depends on the very sort of cold war thinking that we are supposed to have moved beyond. The “moral” basis of cold war vs Bush doctrine was raised by the President. I’d be happy to hear him try explain to us how preemptive strikes are morally preferable to deterrence and MAD. IMHO, I don’t think he’s up to the task. ---
**Author:** ![CyberPundit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@CyberPundit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CyberPundit)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2002, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-new-national-security-strategy/128920/22 "2002-09-22T05:01:33Z")
“US biotech is far larger than Chinese biotech” There is a difference between general bio-tech and bio-weapons. It is perfectly possible for the Chinese government to develop terrible bio-wepaons even if their bio-tech industry isn’t as big as America’s. And they don’t have to equal America to cause huge damage. About detectibility aren’t the Chinese going to be intensely suspicious if their economy suddenly starts crumbling because of mysterious diseases if the official policy of the US , more or less, is to hurt their economy? They may even retaliate against the US without waiting for proof. As for your other point, just saying that the US is “moving beyond” cold war calculations isn’t going to stop the Chinese from retaliating. What you seem to be suggesting is that the US attacks China and then the Chinese are going to say “Damn. Since Bush has moved beyond Cold-War calcuations we can’t retaliate”. It doesn’t work that way; they will just retaliate. In any event the very idea of a pre-emptive attack by the US on Chinese agriculture is absurd so I am not going to argue about it further. The fact that no one else can think of any other ideas to check other potential superpowers shows the absurdity of the “Bush doctrine”. It is just bluster. ---
**Author:** ![bloomingpouf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@bloomingpouf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bloomingpouf)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2002, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-new-national-security-strategy/128920/23 "2002-09-22T12:58:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > **But if this document is the real thing, and is not substantially changed, then I think you are looking at an historic moment. This is in essence a declaration of a _Pax Americana_ - the moment the United States essentially became an empire.** Sorry - But America is already acting as an empire - it’s only now saying to The American people that there it might not be possible to kep All of the People Fooled! Most of the Non American world has known about the American Empire for a long time - perhaps it’s just been that CNN hasn’t reported on it yet! ---
**Author:** ![woolly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ebca7d/32.png) [@woolly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woolly)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2002, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-new-national-security-strategy/128920/24 "2002-09-22T13:26:16Z")
The lead item in yesterday’s Sydney Morning Herald: [Bush: how I’ll rule the world](http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/09/20/1032054963259.html) which opens with: > [@](#): > > The Bush Administration has spelt out its determination to enforce America’s global domination, insisting it will allow no other power to challenge its military and economic supremacy. … > [@](#): > > "A senior White House official said Mr Bush had edited the document heavily “because he thought there were sections where we sounded overbearing or arrogant”. I’m so pleased he did that. ---
**Author:** ![bloomingpouf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@bloomingpouf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bloomingpouf)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2002, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-new-national-security-strategy/128920/25 "2002-09-22T15:16:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by woolly \* > \*\*The lead item in yesterday’s Sydney Morning Herald: > [Bush: how I’ll rule the world](http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/09/20/1032054963259.html) which opens with: > … > I’m so pleased he did that. \*\* [It says the US will never subject its citizens to the new International Criminal Court, “whose jurisdiction does not extend to Americans”.](http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/09/20/1032054963259.html) No shocks there then… I mean who would ever be arrogant enough to arrest an American for a war Crime when The Shrub has stated that such action will result if necessary in The World Criminal Court in the Hague being Bombed! No arrogance there at all! So The Criminals threaten to blow up the courts if they are taken there… a Nice example of “How To Become a Terrorist for Dummies”!… ohhhhh that’s what the shrub has just published!:smack: So we have The Shrub telling the world to watch out or we will blow you away for looking at us funny… and if we get it wrong and try to hold us to account that is the same thing as looking at us funny. So we all have to stand back and let Bully have his own way or he will bully us another way. Don’t this sort of remind you of the High School Jock Jerk who ended up getting “Seven Shades Of Shite” kicked out of him when enough people grew tired of his attitude? – which was heavily adjusted! HUMMMMMMM… does anyone see any kind of self satisfied bias here… and is there any possibility that Americans might see their own interests as more important that anyone else’s??? ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2002, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-new-national-security-strategy/128920/26 "2002-09-22T16:36:42Z")
This document is the wet dream of the military-industrial complex. (It’s the defense contractors’ world. We only live in it.) ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2002, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-new-national-security-strategy/128920/27 "2002-09-22T17:54:59Z")
Ever think of looking on the “author’s” web site for the original document? See [http://www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/nss.html](http://www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/nss.html) ---
**Author:** ![ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZombiesAteMyBrain)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2002, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-new-national-security-strategy/128920/28 "2002-09-22T20:00:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spoke- \* > \*\*This document is the wet dream of the military-industrial complex. > > (It’s the defense contractors’ world. We only live in it.) \*\* [We make no distinction between terrorists and those who knowingly harbor or provide aid to them.](http://www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/nss3.html) [America will help nations that need our assistance in combating terror. And America will hold to account nations that are compromised by terror, including those who harbor terrorists— because the allies of terror are the enemies of civilization.](http://www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/nssintro.html) [White House ‘passed British secrets to IRA’](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/48407.stm) Many in the UK still remember the TV coverage of The President of the United States receiving Terrorists in the White House! How nice it was for them – and how sickening for so many around the world. It seems that if you terrorise enough you get to meet the president – or maybe it’s cos places like Northern Ireland were not seen as Strategically Important – But the Irish vote was! Political Correctness American Style! Oh this is a great one. So In the United Kingdom there are convicted Terrorists in Parliament and in the Northern Ireland Executive - the Government of The United Kingdom. These Guys are being allowed to do this because AMERICA THE USA brokered a deal that supported Terrorists being reformed – and Now The SHRUB and his merry men are trying to claim that they are going to be Robin Hood to the rest of the World. The US Government – men in Tights! Well America supported the IRA and refused to ban then as a Terrorist Organisation operating in the USA – allowing them to gather money and support on American Soil for many years. Many people in the UK remember that and the bombs that American money funded on the Streets of London – Manchester – Birmingham – Warrington as well as all the terror alerts and security that we were forced to take for granted! So this is great – If America will not tolerate Giving Aide and Comfort to Terrorists that’s the end of America and it vanishes in a pouf of it’s own Ideological Logic! How much safer the world will be. Bye Bye We’ll Miss You ……………… NOT! When will the American people wake up to the Gross Double Standards and Hypocritical Fraud — and even the poor use of smoke and mirrors by the Government of the USA. It seems that Hollywood has been getting tax breaks for years to get folks believing the plot lines in the Movies. Dubya is not Like Luke Skywalker or Obe One – and black hawk down was for real – not just a screen play! Terrorist have been given aide and comfort by the USA and people are not willing to be subjugated by the USA’s Double standards. The National Security Strategy of the United States of America- This piece of foolishness just made the world a hell of a lot more dangerous for the Average American – and also for the rest of the planet too! As For the repeated references that America’s way is the best and only way – the Arrogance is staggering. I hope that as many people as possible question this document and it’s intent. It’s scary and grossly self serving! It’s declaring war on the world – and it seems that the USA has no allies to fall back on! ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-new-national-security-strategy/128920/29 "2002-09-23T05:10:47Z")
**Moderator’s Note:** **Rhapsody** , please don’t express on our message board your desire to see the President of the United States assassinated. I would imagine the Secret Service is in a particularly humorless mood these days. ---
**Author:** ![Rhapsody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9de0a6/32.png) [@Rhapsody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhapsody)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-new-national-security-strategy/128920/30 "2002-09-23T07:26:13Z")
[http://cagle.slate.msn.com/news/BushWarFrenzy/BushIraqgifs/bennetghjt.jpg](http://cagle.slate.msn.com/news/BushWarFrenzy/BushIraqgifs/bennetghjt.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![woolly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ebca7d/32.png) [@woolly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woolly)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-new-national-security-strategy/128920/31 "2002-09-23T09:54:26Z")
**bloomingpouf** , methinks the absence of the irony smilie in my post has caused some confusion. ---
**Author:** ![bloomingpouf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@bloomingpouf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bloomingpouf)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-new-national-security-strategy/128920/32 "2002-09-23T20:03:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by woolly \* > \*\ ***bloomingpouf** , methinks the absence of the irony smilie in my post has caused some confusion. \*\* Dear Wooly I see no use in irony and it would make little difference at this time. Many in the UK recall that the USA refused to ban the IRA and other terrorist organisations in the past – for F\*\*\* sake the USA even gave the guns to the Taliban in the first place! People recall the pictures of terrorists being greeted in the Whitehouse and I personally recall having to stand up in Philadelphia many years ago and decry the sponsorship of Terrorism that was happening in front of my eyes - $1000 bills being dropped into hats to pay for bombs that I could well face upon arrival back in the UK. I have also had to face Terrorist threats face on – have you seen London – Manchester – Belfast. I have! Terrorism only works if a country agrees to be terrorised and the USA has agreed to be terrorised. The Shrub can think it a great idea to be all big and butch – but he’s a child when it comes to the real world and The US Government is causing the people of the world to view the USA with more contempt daily. America and American Multinationals have been terrorising the planet for years! What is the biggest cause of civil war in Africa??? The Mining of minerals needed to build mobile phones and the largest consumer is America. The Mineral Is called Coltan – look it up and be horrified. If you thought Gold was valuable or blood diamonds had a high yield – you missed the boat on the biggest money earner that you will see in your lifetime! The Economic terrorism that the USA has waged even against The European Union is bad enough – but far to many third world countries have had it worse. The USA is becoming the biggest threat to the world and the people of the world. One question that has to be addressed is exactly how are the worlds resources to be shared out when the USA consumes more than any other country – the average American consumes more and the resources of the planet are simply not enough to give everyone the same as the average American. Will the average American give up so much – or will Bush and the boys just call you a terrorist is you refuse to give the average American what they want? The Document under the dignature of the Shrub is a warning to the world that America will have what it wants - and if you read it from a non American bias you will see that there are no safeguards for the rest of the world - only threats! ---
**Author:** ![woolly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ebca7d/32.png) [@woolly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woolly)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-new-national-security-strategy/128920/33 "2002-09-23T22:34:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bloomingpouf \* > and if you read it from a non American bias … and being a non-American, that is the way I usually percieve issues, though I prefer to call it a basis. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2002, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-new-national-security-strategy/128920/34 "2002-09-24T05:06:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rhapsody \* > > [http://cagle.slate.msn.com/news/BushWarFrenzy/BushIraqgifs/bennetghjt.jpg](http://cagle.slate.msn.com/news/BushWarFrenzy/BushIraqgifs/bennetghjt.jpg) Your link illustrates political comment, protected by the Constitution. It does not carry the same weight as your earlier personal observations, which cuts close to 18 USC 871. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2002, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-new-national-security-strategy/128920/35 "2002-09-24T05:49:29Z")
I suppose this doctrine means that Osama was justified. I mean, he was feeling threatened by the U.S… So he struck first, instead of being crushed over time. No harm in that: right? Just looking out for his interests. Hey: this is a great rationale to justify! ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2002, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-new-national-security-strategy/128920/36 "2002-09-24T12:18:07Z")
I read the WHOLE THING. As a non-American I feel this: the pre-emptive strike policy, the planned unilateralism, the implied coercion and/or fiscal pressure to promote “universal” (i.e. American) values look like an attempt to grasp global hegemony with a _Pax Americana_ that looks like utter bloody arrogance. The ‘right to pre-emption’ part is the worst of all, because it gives a justification for rogue states to pre-empt the pre-emption. And how do they do that? With terrorism, of course. YMMV. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2002, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-new-national-security-strategy/128920/37 "2002-09-24T13:31:14Z")
> [@](#): > > jjim: …it gives a justification for rogue states to pre-empt the pre-emption. Not if we can pre-pre-prempt them. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2002, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-new-national-security-strategy/128920/38 "2002-09-24T13:55:01Z")
I was talking to a friend about this over e-mail and we basically came to the conclusion that what the US needs is regime change. The sheer arrogance of that document is staggering and quite worrying. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2002, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-new-national-security-strategy/128920/39 "2002-09-24T14:07:46Z")
How about we take a step back and look at this document from a different perspective. Given the threats in the world today, how SHOULD the U.S. defend itself? This document may be frightening, but is it \*necessary? ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2002, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-new-national-security-strategy/128920/40 "2002-09-24T15:08:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > \*\* > Given the threats in the world today, how SHOULD the U.S. defend itself? \*\* It should **defend** (key word here) itself when attacked. Not **attack** all that might possibly pose a threat, at some time in the future. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-new-national-security-strategy/128920.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-new-national-security-strategy/128920.md?page=3)