# What do you think of the US DUI Level **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 12, 2011, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-us-dui-level/567402 "2011-01-12T23:34:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-us-dui-level/567402/81 "2011-01-13T20:12:49Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > I had no idea that in Germany (as we all know, a country where the DUI laws are much stricter than in most of the USA) passengers were allowed to drink while riding in a car. It’s rather that passengers are not forbidden to drink. They aren’t especially allowed to, but then, passengers are only forbidden from disturbing the driver. So a sober passenger who shouts at the driver or puts his hands over the drivers eyes because he is horsing around will get into trouble under general rule, but a drunk passenger quietly drinking beer is in no trouble. I don’t see why the law should care about passengers. We want one sober driver to transport his 3 or 4 drunken buddies home, so as long as driver is clean, the passengers can do what they like. They can also use the phone, eat, smoke, sleep - all of which is too distracting for the driver. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-us-dui-level/567402/82 "2011-01-13T20:15:46Z")
> [@kushiel](#): > > I’d like to see a study comparing different types of influences on driving erratically. Like, people with 0.08, people texting, people with loud passengers, people with music at some obscene number of decibels, etc. I’m sorry son. Your radio dial was set to 11. Afraid I am going to have to take you in 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-us-dui-level/567402/83 "2011-01-13T20:16:42Z")
> [@kushiel](#): > > I’d like to see a study comparing different types of influences on driving erratically. Like, people with 0.08, people texting, people with loud passengers, people with music at some obscene number of decibels, etc. These studies have been done in simulators, and texting as well as talking on the phone (even with handless sets) is very distracting. Talking to a passenger is slightly distracting (psychologists say that a passenger will react to the traffic flow, while the driver will put priority over an unseen person on the phone). Music is slightly distracting, depending on how much attention the driver pays to it. But it can also help with getting dulled by straight roads, so it depends a lot. Loudness itself is less of a problem, since elderly and deaf people can drive, too, they just pay more attention. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-us-dui-level/567402/84 "2011-01-13T20:20:30Z")
Every time this question comes up, someone says that it’s too low, because it penalizes light drinkers who have only had 4 or 5 drinks in the past hour, and they personally can drink that much without being impaired. There are two problems with this: First of all, 4 or 5 drinks is not, by any reasonable standard, light drinking. Light drinking is more like that much per _week_. Second, while it may be true that there are a handful of people who can drink that much and still drive safely, they’re very, very rare… But almost everyone who drinks that much _thinks_ they’re one of those rare few. As for the argument that the typical drinker at .08 is no more impaired than someone texting while driving, or subject to other distractions, well, that may be so. But that doesn’t mean that the .08 drinking laws are too strict; it means that we’re not strict enough against other driving distractions. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-us-dui-level/567402/85 "2011-01-13T21:03:45Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > Ok, what purpose does allowing open containers of alcohol in a car serve? Freedom of others to drink? > [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > So that your buddies can all get loaded on the way from Party A to Party B? Why should that be illegal? ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-us-dui-level/567402/86 "2011-01-13T21:04:59Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > No, you should have the willpower not to have that oh-so-precious glass of wine with dinner. There are plenty of non-alcoholic drinks you can choose from. > > Please note, the above is not anywhere near close to my opinion – it’s the argument I’ve seen offered up by the 0%BAC-types in the past. The current legal limit is laughably low, and exists purely as a money maker. I agree with the first two sentences. People should be drinking chocolate milk. 😛 > **[Chocolate Milk](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=592498)** > > Isn’t it silly for a grownup to order chocolate milk at a restaurant? I was having breakfast today and the guy sitting one table over and I couldn’t help but laugh. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-us-dui-level/567402/87 "2011-01-13T21:17:29Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Freedom of others to drink? wow, they really can’t control themselves and their imbibing that they need to have the freedom to drink in a passenger car? I think I’m ok with abridging this freedom > [@](#): > > Why should that be illegal? because it’s probable that the driver is going to want to partake, and balancing that probability against the hardship of not being able to booze in a car isn’t such a hard test to me. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-us-dui-level/567402/88 "2011-01-13T21:24:22Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > because it’s probable that the driver is going to want to partake, and balancing that probability against the hardship of not being able to booze in a car isn’t such a hard test to me. :rolleyes: Have you ever heard the term “designated driver”? Believe it or not, some people can be in the vicinity of alcohol, attend parties and bars, and not partake. I’m not one of these people, but I know them, and they drive me around a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-us-dui-level/567402/89 "2011-01-13T21:41:23Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > What do you mean, in many European countries? I mean that I don’t know the rules in all European countries. Thus the modifier (“many”). > [@constanze](#): > > Are you saying that despite a law with a fixed _per se_ BAC level of currently 0.08, police in the US can’t stop you and test your BAC? Really? Am I understanding you correct? In that case, that’s the first thing you need to change! > Is there any reason for why not? Really, don’t ask me. I live on the east bank of the pond, just like you apparently do. You gotta ask some Americans about that, but when I lived in the US some years ago, my American colleagues were pretty shocked that our police could pull you over for a breathalyzer test just as a matter of routine. I live in a country with a 0.02% BAC limit for _per se_ DUI **plus** the “risk” of being pulled over for no apparent reason, whereby a polite police officer asks me nicely if I would blow in his instrument (uh, that didn’t come (oops!) out exactly as I intended…). I’m fine with that, maybe because I’ve had the rather dubious pleasure of administering first aid to a guy who drove drunk and subsequently died from it :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Terraplane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@Terraplane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terraplane)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-us-dui-level/567402/90 "2011-01-13T21:51:52Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > I had no idea that in Germany (as we all know, a country where the DUI laws are much stricter than in most of the USA) passengers were allowed to drink while riding in a car. > > There are a few states that still allow this (Louisiana, Wyoming, Montana, Texas) but it’s not the norm in America. I don’t know about the other states but Texas hasn’t allowed this since 2001. ---
**Author:** ![CPomeroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed8c4c/32.png) [@CPomeroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CPomeroy)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-us-dui-level/567402/91 "2011-01-13T23:27:28Z")
Just a few random observations; it seems like part of the difference of opinion here is based on how much alcohol an individual and their friends typically consume. For example, in my world, 4-5 drinks in a night is light drinking. That does not seem to be the case for some of the folks who favor very strict per se DUI standards. In my experience there also is a generational component. I have noted that people my age (44) or older tend to be more tolerant of mild drinking and driving than the younger folks that have been brainwashed, I mean educated, about the evils of alcohol. I expect any negative affect that alcohol has had on your life may also play into it. ---
**Author:** ![SandyHook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dec6dc/32.png) [@SandyHook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SandyHook)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-us-dui-level/567402/92 "2011-01-13T23:48:10Z")
I said it was too low because you have no business driving if you’ve been drinking. My personal rule is 1 1/2 hour wait if I’ve had, for instance, one beer with lunch. The next day if I’ve had more than one. There have been a few times in the last 15ish years when I’ve fudged a bit on this, but not lot. These very few lapses were only when I really, really had to be someplace. Generally I just forgot I had something to do, had a couple with lunch and then realized the problem. After reading the entry above mine I guess I should add that on the whole I drink a fair amount. There’s rarely a day I don’t have something to drink. Second edit: After re-rereading my entry I need to change line one to - I said it was too high. . . . Been drinking you know. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-us-dui-level/567402/93 "2011-01-14T00:10:44Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > :rolleyes: Have you ever heard the term “designated driver”? Believe it or not, some people can be in the vicinity of alcohol, attend parties and bars, and not partake. I’m not one of these people, but I know them, and they drive me around a lot. do you pop a colt 45 while you’re being driven around? ever feel sad that you couldn’t because of open container laws? ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-us-dui-level/567402/94 "2011-01-14T00:49:16Z")
I think .1% is fine. I also know that the times I’ve driven tipsy I was less impaired than the time I and my longish-distance boyfriend broke up on my birthday and I had to drive 3 hours home through a fog of tears. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-us-dui-level/567402/95 "2011-01-14T01:21:58Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > do you pop a colt 45 while you’re being driven around? ever feel sad that you couldn’t because of open container laws? I’ve drank in cars when someone else was driving. It wouldn’t be a big deal not to do it, but it’s not a big deal to do it either. And that’s not even all there is to open container laws, at least here in WA. It’s illegal to have a container that has ever been opened (unless it’s in the trunk), even if no one in the car is drinking. There have been times I was taking an opened bottle of alcohol to a friend’s house, hadn’t been drinking, and wasn’t going to start until after I got to the friend’s. Still illegal. (I’m not worried about it because it wasn’t in plain view and nobody was going to be searching my car, but it’s still a silly law.) ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-us-dui-level/567402/96 "2011-01-14T02:32:36Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > 1. Designated driver: one person stays sober > > 2. Take a walk or public transport - they do have cities in Czech, not everybody lives out in the woods miles and miles and miles away like in the US. > > 3. Meet at somebodys home and stay overnight. > > Germany has lowered the BAC from 0.08 to 0.05 (and to 0.00 for beginning drivers), and during the Octoberfest, there are millions of people getting drunk. They take cabs and public transport. (And the police sets up roadblocks all around). > When the young people want to party, cities offer party bus lines that pick the people up at designated spots, drive to different clubs and discos, and then drive them back to the stops in the middle of the night. > > When a middle-aged couple wants to have a nice evening in a good restaurant, they either take public transport or the wife (many women I know don’t like to drink much alcohol anyway) stays sober. That’s fine, my question was directed more to **Leaffan** , who objected to lowering the BAC. The point is that people find a way to enjoy themselves just fine, with alcohol at dinner, even with a BAC limit of zero. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-us-dui-level/567402/97 "2011-01-14T03:11:39Z")
People who abuse the system infringe upon my ability to consume a reasonable amount of alcohol and drive in a perfectly safe manner. ---
**Author:** ![kushiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-us-dui-level/567402/98 "2011-01-14T03:31:46Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > These studies have been done in simulators, and texting as well as talking on the phone (even with handless sets) is very distracting. Talking to a passenger is slightly distracting (psychologists say that a passenger will react to the traffic flow, while the driver will put priority over an unseen person on the phone). > Music is slightly distracting, depending on how much attention the driver pays to it. But it can also help with getting dulled by straight roads, so it depends a lot. > > Loudness itself is less of a problem, since elderly and deaf people can drive, too, they just pay more attention. I didn’t want to bring up specific examples because I thought I might get piled on, but a car full of teens or a car with crying/arguing/yelling children can be just as dangerous as any BAC, but you’d never ever say it was bad for a parent to drive around with their children. There are laws now in some places for new drivers saying how many people can be in the car with them/what age they can be though. Personally, I know passengers talking affect me more than a drink. But I do try to avoid either scenario. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-us-dui-level/567402/99 "2011-01-14T10:39:23Z")
> [@kushiel](#): > > I didn’t want to bring up specific examples because I thought I might get piled on, but a car full of teens or a car with crying/arguing/yelling children can be just as dangerous as any BAC, but you’d never ever say it was bad for a parent to drive around with their children. There are laws now in some places for new drivers saying how many people can be in the car with them/what age they can be though. That seems really … strange. On the one hand, in the US, cops have incredibly wide latitude, like seizing your property under the anti-drug laws. On the other hand, laws are made so narrow as to be idiotic. Children are not automatically noisy and distracting, so limiting how many / how old people in the car can be is dumb. Instead, drivers should be educated and aware enough to know that they are endangering others and should stop. For those who aren’t aware of this, the cops stop them and apply the general traffic law\* to them. Of course German families drive with their cars full of children, too. But the parents issue the rule of “If you don’t stop making noise, I will stop the car” and follow through, just like parents follow other areas of discipline and rules. (My father also did not start the car before everybody was belted in. No discussion about it, that was the rule, and it made sense). - The first paragraph of the German StVO- Traffic law is (paraphrased): Each participant in traffic (=pedestrians, bikers, cars, inliners…) is responsible to always act in a manner that neither endangers nor hinders anybody else. From this prinicple the other rules are derived and also practical applied, so e.g. there are general speed laws, but if its foggy or snowing, you have to drive slower than posted to not endanger others. Likewise, there’s a specific rule about alcohol, and a general rule about not driving impaired that includes medications and non-alcohol drugs (though they are harder to test for). So if you are upset enough to cry, or have a cold with fever and headache, you don’t belong behind the wheel of a car! If you are unable to act as responsible adult, then the cops will stop and ticket you, so threat of punishment will stop you, if insight is not enough. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-us-dui-level/567402/100 "2011-01-14T15:17:10Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > do you pop a colt 45 while you’re being driven around? ever feel sad that you couldn’t because of open container laws? What does my answer to this question have to do with anything? Does whether or not open container laws are silly depend on whether or not MeanOldLady has ever drank in a vehicle while someone else was driving? It really shouldn’t. If you’re dying to know about my personal habits, my answer is: I own three flasks. Well, three \*traditional \*flasks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-us-dui-level/567402.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-the-us-dui-level/567402.md?page=6)