# What do you think of these photos? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 29, 2013, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243 "2013-03-29T07:10:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![supery00n](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f9b8f/32.png) [@supery00n](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supery00n)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/21 "2013-03-30T02:16:15Z")
I added six screenshots of radial measurements of the concentric ring pattern, which conform to Plato’s dialogue pertaining to the measurements of each ring of the city of Atlantis; this can be verified by converting miles to stadia, there being 8.8 stadia to 1 mile. I also created a [Facebook page](https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=509748595736781&set=a.509747699070204.117114.509747252403582&type=1&theater) with all of these screenshots. The city was described as having a radius of 13.5 stadia in Plato’s dialogue _Critias_, which is equal to 1.53 miles. This is precisely the radius of the pattern found in the screenshots, as can be seen in the photo first linked to on the Facebook page. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/22 "2013-03-30T09:17:23Z")
> [@supery00n](#): > > What do you think of the Muertos Trough? I don’t really care about it. Are you serious about thinking this is Atlantis? Can you really not tell how much of that data is subject to noise and other corruption? ---
**Author:** ![supery00n](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f9b8f/32.png) [@supery00n](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supery00n)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/23 "2013-03-30T10:48:05Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I don’t really care about it. Are you serious about thinking this is Atlantis? Can you really not tell how much of that data is subject to noise and other corruption? I am actually 100% sure that it is Atlantis. As for noise and other corruption, the burden of proof lies on the side that claims it is noise. The visual data that you dismiss as noise and other corruption is in actuality irrefutable evidence of a human civilization’s transformation of its natural environment to suit its needs, the most visible of which are canals for irrigation and terraces for agriculture. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/24 "2013-03-30T10:55:34Z")
> [@supery00n](#): > > I am actually 100% sure that it is Atlantis. As for noise and other corruption, the burden of proof lies on the side that claims it is noise. The visual data that you dismiss as noise and other corruption is in actuality irrefutable evidence of a human civilization’s transformation of its natural environment to suit its needs, the most visible of which are canals for irrigation and terraces for agriculture. Utter nonsense. Every word. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/25 "2013-03-30T13:55:46Z")
> [@supery00n](#): > > I am actually 100% sure that it is Atlantis. As for noise and other corruption, the burden of proof lies on the side that claims it is noise. The visual data that you dismiss as noise and other corruption is in actuality irrefutable evidence of a human civilization’s transformation of its natural environment to suit its needs, the most visible of which are canals for irrigation and terraces for agriculture. LOL Good luck with that. You’re not going to be taken seriously when all you have done is looked at some pretty patterns on Google maps. You haven’t even taken the trouble to research the limitations of the imaging technology used to create this mapping. Here’s a free clue: no system of human agriculture or engineering has ever produced so regular a grid, across so large an area. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/26 "2013-03-30T16:30:26Z")
Also… This is not news. > **[Page Not Found (404)](https://www.cnet.com/html/404.html)** > > Page Not Found (404) - CNET ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/27 "2013-03-31T03:41:01Z")
> [@supery00n](#): > > the burden of proof lies on the side that claims it is noise. I do not think “the burden of proof” means what you think it means. ---
**Author:** ![supery00n](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f9b8f/32.png) [@supery00n](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supery00n)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/28 "2013-03-31T04:58:06Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > I do not think “the burden of proof” means what you think it means. In the context of the Google Earth program, say a random point in the ocean is picked. For all objects that are shown in that view that are larger than the resolution size for that area of the ocean floor, the burden of proof is certainly on the side that says what is being shown in the view is not actually there, as that side would be arguing that what is being displayed is an error, the reason being that errors are **exceptions** to a rule (of there being no error, at least to a certain resolution size). If this is not a self-evident truth for you, then our views of what we consider empirical knowledge are different, and we’ll have to agree to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/29 "2013-03-31T08:14:39Z")
Just remember - they laughed at Galileo too. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/30 "2013-03-31T11:45:30Z")
So, on the one hand, we have people who actually work with this sort of data saying that not only is it just noise, but that similar noise is visible all around that area. On the other hand, we have you claiming that these apparent rings are PROOF of a long-dead super civilization that sank under the ocean thousands of years ago. And you’re seriously attempting to claim that the burden of proof is on them? Are you a nutcase? ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/31 "2013-03-31T14:55:50Z")
If you really believed it, you’d be making plans to get there, not spending your time on an internet bulletin board. [The Telegraph did a story on this](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/technology/google/4731313/Google-Ocean-Has-Atlantis-been-found-off-Africa.html) back in Feb of 2009, so you’d better hurry. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/32 "2013-03-31T15:20:24Z")
> [@digs](#): > > If you really believed it, you’d be making plans to get there, not spending your time on an internet bulletin board. Give him a chance. He’s still working the kinks out of his fan powered windmill powered fan powered windmill invention. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/33 "2013-03-31T19:25:02Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Give him a chance. He’s still working the kinks out of his fan powered windmill powered fan powered windmill invention. Okay, everyone here who’s found an amazing product, or discovery, or perpetual motion machine …I wasn’t asking for a show of hands, _Kozmik_, but everyone appreciates your enthusiasm… put down the mouse and back away from the message board. Get outta here, for the sake of your bankroll and the good of all humanity! That cold fusion contraption isn’t going to power _supery00n_’s ‘Atlantis Express’ Sub/Train if you don’t get it built in time. ---
**Author:** ![tellyworth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@tellyworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tellyworth)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/34 "2013-03-31T20:42:56Z")
**supery00n** , a question: If someone organized an expedition to explore the area, and they returned with no evidence of anything unusual - no lost city or sunken island - what would you conclude? ---
**Author:** ![supery00n](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f9b8f/32.png) [@supery00n](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supery00n)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/35 "2013-03-31T21:48:05Z")
> [@tellyworth](#): > > **supery00n** , a question: > > If someone organized an expedition to explore the area, and they returned with no evidence of anything unusual - no lost city or sunken island - what would you conclude? That I was 100% wrong. ---
**Author:** ![supery00n](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f9b8f/32.png) [@supery00n](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supery00n)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/36 "2013-03-31T22:02:59Z")
The thing that convinced me of the underwater pattern being the city of Atlantis was not that it vaguely resembled a target with a bullseye in the middle - that, as has been pointed out here, can be attributed to the imperfections of Google Earth’s sources and their tools and data-acquisition methodologies. To the contrary, it is that the measurements and width, as well as their number, of each concentric ring, whatever these rings may be, if anything at all, match precisely those written down in Plato’s dialogues. (What is more, the ringed structure is cut through by a rift, and strongly suggests that an earthquake damaged it…which would jibe with Plato’s description of the swallowing up by the sea being presaged by a sequence of “portentous earthquakes.”) It is my opinion, and only that, that the _simplest explanation_ at this point of what the pattern is, is that it is Atlantis, as absurd and ridiculous as this sounds. ---
**Author:** ![supery00n](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f9b8f/32.png) [@supery00n](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supery00n)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/37 "2013-03-31T22:13:16Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > So, on the one hand, we have people who actually work with this sort of data saying that not only is it just noise, but that similar noise is visible all around that area. > > On the other hand, we have you claiming that these apparent rings are PROOF of a long-dead super civilization that sank under the ocean thousands of years ago. > > And you’re seriously attempting to claim that the burden of proof is on them? > > Are you a nutcase? I’m actually a very sane and reasonable person…although I am not very good at communicating this through the Internet. It is not that I deny that noise is always present to a certain extent in every data-gathering process, which it is. I fully acknowledge this fact, as I am sure every sentient being does as well. I just think in _this particular case_, that it is not noise, for reasons which I have given and which I feel are justified with solid arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/38 "2013-03-31T22:59:26Z")
Why do you think Plato’s description of Atlantis is accurate? If he is wrong, then your conclusions are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/39 "2013-03-31T23:38:37Z")
> [@supery00n](#): > > I just think in _this particular case_, that it is not noise, for reasons which I have given and which I feel are justified with solid arguments. Utterly irrelevant to the point you raised - the question of burden of proof. The burden of proof is on YOU no matter how good you personally think your evidence is. The burden of proof is always on the person who seeks to overthrow the status quo. So for you to blithely pronounce that it’s up to those who disagree with you to prove you wrong, well, that indicates that you really don’t know what you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![supery00n](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f9b8f/32.png) [@supery00n](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supery00n)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/40 "2013-03-31T23:44:49Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Why do you think Plato’s description of Atlantis is accurate? If he is wrong, then your conclusions are wrong. It just seems too detailed to be a made up story. And besides that, I am in no position to say that he is right or wrong, as he is the only reliable source on Atlantis. (Diodorus Siculus, in _The Library of History_, mentions Atlantis also, but it is not an authoritative source on Atlantis). I can only say that _ **if** _ Plato intended the story of Atlantis to be true, and based on actual historical records, which were themselves “correct,” _ **then** _ the pattern underwater in the Caribbean Sea matches that description given. If Plato is wrong, then what I am asserting has no basis, though this does not mean that the underwater pattern does not exist. What is down there is down there, if there is anything down there, regardless of what anyone has said or done. > [@](#): > > First of all they bridged over the zones of sea which surrounded the ancient metropolis, making a road to and from the royal palace. And at the very beginning they built the palace in the habitation of the god and of their ancestors, which they continued to ornament in successive generations, every king surpassing the one who went before him to the utmost of his power, until they made the building a marvel to behold for size and for beauty. And beginning from the sea they bored a canal of three hundred feet in width and one hundred feet in depth and fifty stadia in length, which they carried through to the outermost zone, making a passage from the sea up to this, which became a harbour, and leaving an opening sufficient to enable the largest vessels to find ingress. Moreover, they divided at the bridges the zones of land which parted the zones of sea, leaving room for a single trireme to pass out of one zone into another, and they covered over the channels so as to leave a way underneath for the ships; for the banks were raised considerably above the water. Now the largest of the zones into which a passage was cut from the sea was three stadia in breadth, and the zone of land which came next of equal breadth; but the next two zones, the one of water, the other of land, were two stadia, and the one which surrounded the central island was a stadium only in width. The island in which the palace was situated had a diameter of five stadia. All this including the zones and the bridge, which was the sixth part of a stadium in width, they surrounded by a stone wall on every side, placing towers and gates on the bridges where the sea passed in. The stone which was used in the work they quarried from underneath the centre island, and from underneath the zones, on the outer as well as the inner side. One kind was white, another black, and a third red, and as they quarried, they at the same time hollowed out double docks, having roofs formed out of the native rock. Some of their buildings were simple, but in others they put together different stones, varying the colour to please the eye, and to be a natural source of delight. The entire circuit of the wall, which went round the outermost zone, they covered with a coating of brass, and the circuit of the next wall they coated with tin, and the third, which encompassed the citadel, flashed with the red light of orichalcum. (Plato, Critias) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243.md?page=3)