# What do you think of these photos? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 29, 2013, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243 "2013-03-29T07:10:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![supery00n](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f9b8f/32.png) [@supery00n](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supery00n)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/41 "2013-04-01T00:08:00Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Utterly irrelevant to the point you raised - the question of burden of proof. The burden of proof is on YOU no matter how good you personally think your evidence is. The burden of proof is always on the person who seeks to overthrow the status quo. So for you to blithely pronounce that it’s up to those who disagree with you to prove you wrong, well, that indicates that you really don’t know what you’re talking about. Point conceded. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/42 "2013-04-01T00:08:08Z")
> [@supery00n](#): > > It just seems too detailed to be a made up story. That has never been a compelling argument. ---
**Author:** ![supery00n](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f9b8f/32.png) [@supery00n](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supery00n)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/43 "2013-04-01T00:20:27Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > That has never been a compelling argument. I concur. But what about Plato having foreknowledge of the Americas, which can be substantiated by this passage? > [@](#): > > Many great and wonderful deeds are recorded of your state in our histories. But one of them exceeds all the rest in greatness and valour. For these histories tell of a mighty power which unprovoked made an expedition against the whole of Europe and Asia, and to which your city put an end. This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, _ **and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent** _. (emphasis mine). If a person were to trust this source, throwing caution to the wind, and sail west across the Atlantic Ocean before 1492, it would prove to be accurate. The Americas are well described as “surrounding” the Atlantic Ocean, as it borders it western boundary everywhere except for the Drake Passage, and at an area exceeding 40 million kilometers square, it is very well described as a “boundless” continent. So in essence, if Plato hinted at a geographical landmass that was not even known (The Americas), and perhaps considered to be mythical by very few people, such as scholars and sailors, and was dead on, either by coincidence or foreknowledge, does it not become plausible that he could be right about Atlantis, another such mythical geographical landmass? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/44 "2013-04-01T16:13:06Z")
If you’re treating Plato’s account as plausible, why are you disregarding what he said about the location? ---
**Author:** ![supery00n](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f9b8f/32.png) [@supery00n](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supery00n)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/45 "2013-04-01T20:37:43Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > If you’re treating Plato’s account as plausible, why are you disregarding what he said about the location? Plato makes a point of the Atlanteans as having come from outside the Strait of Gibraltar _ **when the Atlantic Ocean was still navigable** _, implying that the Atlanteans, in getting to Europe and Africa in their attempted conquest of these lands, had sailed across the Atlantic Ocean, or at least across a vast tract of it. Thus making the location I have proposed at least plausible. A navigable river is a river that can be navigated along a great portion of its length, not merely one small part. A navigable ocean is an ocean that can be navigated over a large portion of its overall area, not merely a small portion. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/46 "2013-04-01T21:11:11Z")
> [@supery00n](#): > > Plato makes a point of the Atlanteans as having come from outside the Strait of Gibraltar _ **when the Atlantic Ocean was still navigable** _, implying that the Atlanteans, in getting to Europe and Africa in their attempted conquest of these lands, had sailed across the Atlantic Ocean, or at least across a vast tract of it. Thus making the location I have proposed at least plausible. > > A navigable river is a river that can be navigated along a great portion of its length, not merely one small part. A navigable ocean is an ocean that can be navigated over a large portion of its overall area, not merely a small portion. All oceans are navigable. ---
**Author:** ![andrewm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c57346/32.png) [@andrewm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andrewm)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/47 "2013-04-02T01:11:38Z")
> [@supery00n](#): > > In the context of the Google Earth program, say a random point in the ocean is picked. For all objects that are shown in that view that are larger than the resolution size for that area of the ocean floor, the burden of proof is certainly on the side that says what is being shown in the view is not actually there, as that side would be arguing that what is being displayed is an error, the reason being that errors are **exceptions** to a rule (of there being no error, at least to a certain resolution size). Read this and look at the samples: [Moiré pattern - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moir%C3%A9_pattern) (for an example - this not necessarily specifically what is happening in your images) Patterns in the subject of an image and the pattern of the imaging sensor can interact in such a way as to create the appearance of features much larger than the sensor resolution. ---
**Author:** ![supery00n](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f9b8f/32.png) [@supery00n](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supery00n)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/48 "2013-04-02T01:48:12Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > All oceans are navigable. That is a fact today, but was not regarded as such in the time of Plato. For example, the Atlantic Ocean was not thought to be navigable, even though this belief was based in ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![supery00n](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f9b8f/32.png) [@supery00n](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supery00n)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/49 "2013-04-02T02:01:14Z")
> [@supery00n](#): > > That is a fact today (and may very well have always been), but was not regarded as such in the time of Plato. For example, the Atlantic Ocean was not thought to be navigable, even though this belief was based in ignorance. Edit ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/50 "2013-04-02T07:21:11Z")
> [@supery00n](#): > > That is a fact today, but was not regarded as such in the time of Plato. For example, the Atlantic Ocean was not thought to be navigable, even though this belief was based in ignorance. Like so many other beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![supery00n](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f9b8f/32.png) [@supery00n](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supery00n)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/51 "2013-04-02T09:42:51Z")
> [@supery00n](#): > > Edit > [@Mangetout](#): > > Like so many other beliefs. Yes, the question is, why was such a belief held in error? Why was the Atlantic Ocean believed to be nonnavigable for so long, if not in theory, at least in practice? Perhaps the simplest answer to this question is: because it once was, that is, the Atlantic Ocean at some point in the distant past indeed _ **was** _ nonnavigable precisely as Plato said. > [@](#): > > But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea. For which reason the sea in those parts is impassable and impenetrable, because there is a shoal of mud in the way; and this was caused by the subsidence of the island. (Timaeus, Plato) Assuming that such an event happened exactly as Plato said it did, namely that it rendered the Atlantic Ocean, at least in the vicinity of Atlantis, nonnavigable, the question as to why the Atlantic Ocean was believed to be nonnavigable for so long is easily explained. The destruction of Atlantis, occurring 11600 years ago, made the Atlantic Ocean nonnavigable for so long that as the millennia passed, and the sediment thrown up into the ocean at long last settled sufficiently for ships to be able to traverse it once more, as it supposedly did in the more recent past, the folk memory and sailors’ tails of the ocean being not navigable passed down and originating from the more distant past, closer to 9600 BC retained its hold on the European imagination. _In other words, the nonnavigability of the Atlantic Ocean was considered, mistakenly, to be a permanent condition of that body of water, rather than as an anomalous situation that was the result of a catastrophe in the distant past, and thus with the passage of time would tend toward amelioration, as the disturbed sediments suspended in the ocean settled down over time._ Perhaps by mid-way between now and 9600 BC, which is circa 4000 BC, a Columbus sailing forth beyond the Western horizon could have made his journey much as he did in 1492. But it is my guess that a Columbus who tried the same journey in 8000 BC or 7000 BC would have encountered a viscous and thickened waters as he approached the as yet unsettled sediments thrown up by the swallowing up of Atlantis. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/52 "2013-04-02T11:55:38Z")
This island is 1.5 miles across, and sunk 14,000’ deep and its mud made large areas of the Atlantic unnavigable for a long period of time? How is there enough mud? Why didn’t the sediment just sink? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/53 "2013-04-02T16:44:20Z")
**supery00n** , you really just need to get over the misapprehension you have about the imagery you’re looking at. The conspicuous linear features you can see right across the undersea imaging of the Caribbean are exactly what you get when you try to stitch together data that was originally captured in long thin strips - you can find this on land on Google Maps too - where the imagery was stitched together from data captured by a bunch of planes flying in parallel lines (or even more conspicuously when a single plane crosses an area in raster fashion, as this means that there is more opportunity for lighting conditions to change between capture of each strip). You can see it in other sonar imagery of the sea floor - on pretty much any scale - for example - try googling “Titanic sonar imaging”. Either the image contains linear artifacts, or the Titanic came to rest in a submerged ploughed field (I won’t be terribly surprised if you decide it’s the latter). And the radial feature you’re obsessing over can also be very easily explained as an artifact - if submerged features cause the sonar pulse to be reflected more than once before returning, it could very easily result in such an anomaly. A concave cliff face might do exactly this. Also, Stop trying to discuss this with me via PM. Here is fine. ---
**Author:** ![Peaton\_of\_peat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecae2f/32.png) [@Peaton\_of\_peat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peaton_of_peat)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/54 "2013-04-02T17:38:42Z")
**supery00n** , [is this you](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeN8bSvYv0U)? Don’t be him. Don’t be that guy. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/55 "2013-04-02T19:18:37Z")
Dude. I can totally see the Atlantis model in the initial post’s links (no sarcasm). The problem, however, is that Plato was just a troll. Ever notice how Socrates, this fantastic philosopher-type whom you’d expect would be well-known by everyone who met him, never wrote anything down, and is quoted almost exclusively by Plato and Aristophanes (who is not exactly a paragon of seriousness)? Get it? SOCKrates? My money says Plato has seen this exact Google image and made up Atlantis to explain it just for the attention. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/56 "2013-04-02T19:38:05Z")
> [@Peaton\_of\_peat](#): > > **supery00n** , [is this you](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeN8bSvYv0U)? > > Don’t be him. Don’t be that guy. I’m fairly sure there’s more than one of this kind of lunatic on the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/57 "2013-04-02T19:41:06Z")
> [@The Great Sun Jester](#): > > Dude. I can totally see the Atlantis model in the initial post’s links (no sarcasm). The problem, however, is that Plato was just a troll. Ever notice how Socrates, this fantastic philosopher-type whom you’d expect would be well-known by everyone who met him, never wrote anything down, and is quoted almost exclusively by Plato and Aristophanes (who is not exactly a paragon of seriousness)? Get it? SOCKrates? My money says Plato has seen this exact Google image and made up Atlantis to explain it just for the attention. Dang. It’s so simple once someone points it out… ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/58 "2013-04-02T20:34:46Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > Dang. It’s so simple once someone points it out… Hey, just because I’m sane now doesn’t mean I’ve forgotten how to _think_ nuts. That’s NOT a poke at the OP, by the way. I have no convincing evidence one way or the other about God, Atlantis, the G-spot, UFOs or even Socrates. Science has proven time and again that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. But uh…until Google gets us “street view” for the ocean floor, I’m more inclined to go with “imaging artifact” for deep sea snapshots. ---
**Author:** ![supery00n](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f9b8f/32.png) [@supery00n](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supery00n)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/59 "2013-04-03T04:43:38Z")
> [@The Great Sun Jester](#): > > Hey, just because I’m sane now doesn’t mean I’ve forgotten how to _think_ nuts. > > That’s NOT a poke at the OP, by the way. I have no convincing evidence one way or the other about God, Atlantis, the G-spot, UFOs or even Socrates. Science has proven time and again that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. But uh…until Google gets us “street view” for the ocean floor, I’m more inclined to go with “imaging artifact” for deep sea snapshots. Don’t get me started on the G-spot. Btw I found an interesting picture on the Internet…😉 ---
**Author:** ![supery00n](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f9b8f/32.png) [@supery00n](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supery00n)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243/60 "2013-04-03T04:53:54Z")
> [@Weedy](#): > > This island is 1.5 miles across, and sunk 14,000’ deep and its mud made large areas of the Atlantic unnavigable for a long period of time? How is there enough mud? Why didn’t the sediment just sink? The 1.5 mile across feature is found in the Caribbean Basin. If it is actually Atlantis, then one can conclude (through a few steps of logic and inference) that the Caribbean Basin was once dry, and that the Atlantic Ocean burst into the basin and flowed in. The speed of the inflowing water, which created the Caribbean Sea as it exists today, coming in torrents and waterfalls, would have eroded tremendous amounts of land. Then, the Gulf Stream would have carried this suspended sediment into the Atlantic Ocean, where it would have circulated around the North Atlantic Gyre. It’s a similar situation as what happened to the Mediterranean Basin circa 5.3 million years ago, when the Mediterranean Sea was formed in the **Zanclean Flood** , in that a sea was formed by a flood that had its source as the Atlantic Ocean. The Caribbean Basin, during the time of Atlantis, was already _ **sunken** _. It did not sink during the catastrophe that made it disappear beneath the sea. The ocean simply reclaimed an expanse of land that had already, over million of years, subsided into the giant Caribbean Basin. It was as deep as it was 10,000 years ago as it is now. The only (and huge) difference is that then, the Caribbean tectonic plate was a continental plate, home to a prosperous civilization, and now, it is an oceanic plate, filled with the sea. It is obvious how the Atlantean civilization met its demise, and quite tragic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-these-photos/654243.md?page=4)