# What do you think of this? 8 year old pepper-sprayed by cops. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 8, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-8-year-old-pepper-sprayed-by-cops/577712 "2011-04-08T20:17:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-8-year-old-pepper-sprayed-by-cops/577712/41 "2011-04-09T18:16:12Z")
> [@rowrrbazzle](#): > > I think the reason the police get called is to avoid staff who try to restrain him themselves having a bullshit charge of assault lodged against them. Which is a stupid state of affairs. > > If the cops thought pepper spray was the thing to use, that’s fine by me. Obviously little [del]Damien[/del]Aidan deserved it. But two cops at most can’t handle an 8-year-old hellion just by grabbing him without anybody getting injured? Even if he does have a sharp stick? Said eight-year-old: > [@](#): > > On Feb. 22, the boy, whose name was not released, got into trouble on the bus on the way to Glennon Heights Elementary School, Davis said. > > When the child entered the classroom, he began yelling and threatening to kill his teacher and another staff member. > > The staff members were so afraid that they barricaded themselves in an adjacent office while the boy threw chairs and a TV at the door, Davis said. He was ramming the door with a cart. For godsakes, this was the THIRD TIME the police had to deal with this little shit. I don’t know about you, but I never had the cops called on me when I was little. **Dio** just don’t. Just stop it. You do this every fucking time. You’re right, everyone else is wrong, period. We get it. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-8-year-old-pepper-sprayed-by-cops/577712/42 "2011-04-09T18:20:27Z")
I’d be really interested to hear in a working policeman’s take on this - are they actually trained to take down children, or do they just make it up as they go along when it’s a child involved in a violent incident? Can you even use a taser on a child, seeing as how they have a much smaller body? I’m guessing the reality for police officers is that they do indeed run across violent children, but I don’t have any idea how often. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-8-year-old-pepper-sprayed-by-cops/577712/43 "2011-04-09T18:24:35Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > People who work with kids who have behavioral disorders get specific training in it. I underlined some of your words for you. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-8-year-old-pepper-sprayed-by-cops/577712/44 "2011-04-09T18:44:15Z")
It is not the job of the police to go unarmed toe-to-toe with someone armed and violent. It is not their job to fight fair. It is their job to stop those threatening the public, by whatever means are safest for everyone involved. Now, clearly, some restraint was called for, given the age of the perp. And that restraint was shown. Pepper spray is what the police would ordinarily use against an unarmed violent adult. Against an armed violent adult, they’ll generally go for firearms, or at least tasers. A taser would have been a bad choice here (though I could understand the mistake being made in the heat of the moment), but I can’t really criticize pepper spray. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-8-year-old-pepper-sprayed-by-cops/577712/45 "2011-04-09T18:46:03Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Well, if anyone really misunderstood, I will clarify. It is possible to de-escalete and/or restrain and disarm a small child without hurting him. People who work with kids who have behavioral disorders get specific training in it. Jesus Christ man, it was a joke. [An old, old joke.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfN_gcjGoJo) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-8-year-old-pepper-sprayed-by-cops/577712/46 "2011-04-09T18:49:22Z")
Oh, and for **Dio** saying the cops should have de-escalated… What do you think they _did_? The kid was wielding a lethal weapon, which he in fact chose because of its potential to do damage. The cops used a nonlethal weapon to get him to stand down. End result, nobody (violent kid, police, or bystanders) got injured. How is that anything other than a de-escalation? ---
**Author:** ![Ostrya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/35a633/32.png) [@Ostrya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ostrya)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-8-year-old-pepper-sprayed-by-cops/577712/47 "2011-04-09T18:55:29Z")
I think they should have used one of those bean bag launchers on the kid, (or one that shoots airline-size bags of mixed nuts.) ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-8-year-old-pepper-sprayed-by-cops/577712/48 "2011-04-09T19:18:18Z")
> [@the lone cashew](#): > > I think they should have used one of those bean bag launchers on the kid, (or one that shoots airline-size bags of mixed nuts.) Yeah, but the mom would have sued because of his bean/nut allergy… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![pbbth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@pbbth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pbbth)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-8-year-old-pepper-sprayed-by-cops/577712/49 "2011-04-09T19:31:00Z")
If the police have to be called twice to keep everyone safe why weren’t his parents told to find another school before it happened a third time? I would be interested in hearing why someone who was obviously a danger to the other children wasn’t automatically told to get the hell out and not come back. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-8-year-old-pepper-sprayed-by-cops/577712/50 "2011-04-09T20:02:58Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I’d be really interested to hear in a working policeman’s take on this - are they actually trained to take down children, or do they just make it up as they go along when it’s a child involved in a violent incident? Can you even use a taser on a child, seeing as how they have a much smaller body? I’m guessing the reality for police officers is that they do indeed run across violent children, but I don’t have any idea how often. I have a friend who is a Chicago police officer. I’ll ask, no promises I’ll get a timely answer (she’s really busy). Personally, I think the cops did the right thing. Pepper spray is _harmless,_ if temporarily painful. The kid was threatening people with a weapon – a sharp stick which can _kill you_ if shivved through your chest or gut. Talk him down? Sounds like they tried, and it didn’t work. Is it really necessary to have a 12-hour standoff with an 8-year-old? Or how about just taking the opportunity to end it in a fashion where no one gets hurt? A lethal weapon does not become un-lethal due to the age of the person wielding it. In fact, I’d posit that weapons are more dangerous in inexperienced hands, and more dangerous still when the offender is in a blind rage. Under the circumstances, this was an appropriately moderate response. (As mentioned, I imagine an adult doing the same thing would have had actual guns pointed at him, and cops don’t shoot to wound, they shoot to kill.) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-8-year-old-pepper-sprayed-by-cops/577712/51 "2011-04-09T20:36:24Z")
I was thinking about a reality show that follows the kid. Where will he explode next? Who will be his next victims? Why have all the neighborhood cats been disappearing? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-8-year-old-pepper-sprayed-by-cops/577712/52 "2011-04-09T20:42:09Z")
I’ve taken training (24 hours worth) in principles of subject control, and also treated patients who have been in altercations with emotionally unstable folks, or been the unstable person that got subdued. Significant unintentional damage can be and is often inflicted by physical attempts to subdue someone, including dislocated joints and broken bones and concussions. Certain control techniques only work on a subject who is not violently resisting, and trying to use said techniques on folks who are resisting is where a lot of the injuries happen. To both the would-be subduer and the person being subdued. Permanent nerve damage and joint damage are possible. I saw some really nasty damage inflicted by a 93 pound woman when she was out of control. The subduer tried to use physical control techniques rather than pepper spray. I am fine with the use of a nontoxic pepper spray. It’s unfortunate that it came to that, but better than having the kid inadvertently busted up, or one of the officers injured. ---
**Author:** ![Soliloquy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@Soliloquy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soliloquy)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-8-year-old-pepper-sprayed-by-cops/577712/53 "2011-04-09T20:45:55Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I’d be really interested to hear in a working policeman’s take on this - are they actually trained to take down children, or do they just make it up as they go along when it’s a child involved in a violent incident? Can you even use a taser on a child, seeing as how they have a much smaller body? I’m guessing the reality for police officers is that they do indeed run across violent children, but I don’t have any idea how often. Real, working LEO here. (Deputy, not police officer, but that’s splitting hairs.) We are trained to treat a threat as a threat, regardless of where the threat is coming from. An 8 year old with a weapon can still keep you from going home to your children, if you get complacent. “He’s just a kid. He won’t really stab me.” could lead to a piece of wood sticking out of my neck. So I’ll approach that kid with the same caution that I would use with an adult. Maybe more, because the child probably doesn’t truly understand the consequences of attacking a cop. My worst fight in patrol was with a 16 year old girl who, moments before I arrived, had punched a 25 year old woman in the face and broken her nose and thrown a huge rock through a plate glass window, nearly cutting two little kids. She swung at me, ran from me, turned on me, and the fight was on. It was all I could do to keep her from hurting me until my partners arrived to help me get her cuffed. The number one rule that all cops live by is : Go home at night. If pepper spraying an 8 year old with a piece of wood or shooting a 12 year old with a gun means my 2 year old has a mommy, so be it. I lost a friend and partner a few years ago to a 15 year old punk with a gun who made a lucky shot. He was survived by his wife. They hadn’t been married a year. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-8-year-old-pepper-sprayed-by-cops/577712/54 "2011-04-09T20:47:54Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Oh, and for **Dio** saying the cops should have de-escalated… What do you think they _did_? The kid was wielding a lethal weapon, which he in fact chose because of its potential to do damage. The cops used a nonlethal weapon to get him to stand down. End result, nobody (violent kid, police, or bystanders) got injured. How is that anything other than a de-escalation? Lethal weapon, my ass. What a load of crap. It was a little kid with a stick. Any cop who’s afraid of a little kid with a stick is too much of a fucking pussy to even be a crossing guard, much less a cop. I’ve taken baseball bats away from raging 12 year olds. A fucking 8 year old with a stick is not a threat. Just out of curiosity, if they had shot the kid dead, would anyone here have had any objection? I’m guessing you’d all be just fine with it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-8-year-old-pepper-sprayed-by-cops/577712/55 "2011-04-09T20:50:13Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > I’ve taken training (24 hours worth) in principles of subject control, and also treated patients who have been in altercations with emotionally unstable folks, or been the unstable person that got subdued. Significant unintentional damage can be and is often inflicted by physical attempts to subdue someone, including dislocated joints and broken bones and concussions. > > Certain control techniques only work on a subject who is not violently resisting, and trying to use said techniques on folks who are resisting is where a lot of the injuries happen. To both the would-be subduer and the person being subdued. Permanent nerve damage and joint damage are possible. > > I saw some really nasty damage inflicted by a 93 pound woman when she was out of control. The subduer tried to use physical control techniques rather than pepper spray. > > I am fine with the use of a nontoxic pepper spray. It’s unfortunate that it came to that, but better than having the kid inadvertently busted up, or one of the officers injured. It was an 8 year old with a stick. I could have disarmed the kid no problem. Even if I got scratched a little bit, who gives a shit? I’d rather get scratched then harm a little kid. That’s just me. I’m not a big tough cop or anything. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-8-year-old-pepper-sprayed-by-cops/577712/56 "2011-04-09T20:52:43Z")
> [@Soliloquy](#): > > An 8 year old with a weapon can still keep you from going home to your children, if you get complacent. What a crock of shit. How typical of a cop to elevate everything to a life or death threat. An 8 year old with a stick is not a threat. Full stop. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-8-year-old-pepper-sprayed-by-cops/577712/57 "2011-04-09T20:53:26Z")
o/` It’s the Dio Show! The Dio Show! You’re positively gonna love the Dio Show! There’s Dopers here, and sure to please, Here’s that Doper known as Diogenes! Ready, here we go! It’s the Dio Show! o/` ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-8-year-old-pepper-sprayed-by-cops/577712/58 "2011-04-09T20:55:44Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > A lethal weapon does not become un-lethal due to the age of the person wielding it. He didn’t have a lethal weapon. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-8-year-old-pepper-sprayed-by-cops/577712/59 "2011-04-09T20:56:49Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > o/` It’s the Dio Show! The Dio Show! > You’re positively gonna love the Dio Show! > There’s Dopers here, and sure to please, > Here’s that Doper known as Diogenes! > > Ready, here we go! > It’s the Dio Show! o/` Here’s what the “Dio show” really amonts to: Waaah. Somebody has a different opinion that me. Waaaah. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-8-year-old-pepper-sprayed-by-cops/577712/60 "2011-04-09T20:59:54Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Here’s what the “Dio show” really amonts to: Waaah. Somebody has a different opinion that me. Waaaah. There’s enough irony in this post to cause hemochromatosis… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-8-year-old-pepper-sprayed-by-cops/577712.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-8-year-old-pepper-sprayed-by-cops/577712.md?page=4)