# What do you think of this plea deal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 22, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-plea-deal/603751 "2011-11-22T15:08:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-plea-deal/603751/61 "2011-11-23T18:30:23Z")
> [@David42](#): > > How about Jews in a Nazi concentration camp executing the commandant in order to escape oppression? Why does their lesser culpability matter? Are you sure you desire to play that particular card? ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-plea-deal/603751/62 "2011-11-23T18:33:31Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Are you sure you desire to play that particular card? In response to a statement that moral culpability does not enter into consideration when there is an execution, yes, I’m quite comfortable asking the question. Why don’t you answer it instead? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-plea-deal/603751/63 "2011-11-23T18:38:13Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > Does it have to be a shooting? In the head? Does it have to be premeditated? > > Why? > > [Child Shoots Another Child on Playground in Hillcrest Heights](http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/news/maryland/child-shoots-another-child-on-playground-in-hillcrest-heights-063011) The fact that this culprit was 5 years old, not 14, and that the article does not indicate that there was any intent to cause harm, much less kill with premeditation, do make a difference in my view. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-plea-deal/603751/64 "2011-11-23T18:54:02Z")
> [@David42](#): > > Which again seems to lead to the conclusion that you do not believe mitigating factors should be recognized. Which agains seems to lead to the conclusion that you’ve chosen to ignore what I just said about 13 posts ago. Here: > [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > I repeat. There is no circumstance that mitigates an execution like this. I’ve looked at the mitigating factor; I’m discounting it. You continue: > [@](#): > > How about Jews in a Nazi concentration camp executing the commandant in order to escape oppression? Why does their lesser culpability matter? That’s some pretty fucked up Godwinizing. The gay kid wasn’t throwing the executor kid’s relatives into an oven. So you should really drop that horseshit argument. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-plea-deal/603751/65 "2011-11-23T18:59:25Z")
> [@David42](#): > > I agree. McInerney did all that the system tells him to do, and instead of relief, he was chided for not accepting the gay advances thrust upon him. > > The assistant principal should be fired, and gay activists everywhere should take it to heart–Your activism should be limited to the political process. I tend to agree with you, and thought your previous, longer post was right on the mark. I hope that Brandon’s parents sue the fuck out of the VP and the school district. And the victim’s parents, too. (Sue the school, that is.) ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-plea-deal/603751/66 "2011-11-23T19:47:35Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Which agains seems to lead to the conclusion that you’ve chosen to ignore what I just said about 13 posts ago. Here: > > You continue: > That’s some pretty fucked up Godwinizing. The gay kid wasn’t throwing the executor kid’s relatives into an oven. So you should really drop that horseshit argument. I’ll take that to mean, YES, mitigating factors should be considered if it were jews executing their commandant in a concentration camp. I’m not trying to say that it’s the equivalent, just trying to see if you believe in the concept of mitigation at all. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-plea-deal/603751/67 "2011-11-23T19:53:15Z")
I’m wondering how many times I have to post that, in this case, I \*have \*considered the mitigating circumstances and that I don’t find them all that mitigating. Not to mention the fact that your Godwinized analogy is flawed. If the shooter is a Jew in a concentration camp, how is the dead gay kid the commandant of the prison? It seems to me the bullies giving shit to the kid are the oppressive ones. But the shooter didn’t go out and shoot bullies. He shot the gay kid who made him uncomfortable. Twice. In the back of the head. 25 years should be the minimum he spends in prison. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-plea-deal/603751/68 "2011-11-23T20:11:05Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > I’m wondering how many times I have to post that, in this case, I \*have \*considered the mitigating circumstances and that I don’t find them all that mitigating. > > Not to mention the fact that your Godwinized analogy is flawed. If the shooter is a Jew in a concentration camp, how is the dead gay kid the commandant of the prison? It seems to me the bullies giving shit to the kid are the oppressive ones. > > But the shooter didn’t go out and shoot bullies. He shot the gay kid who made him uncomfortable. Twice. In the back of the head. > 25 years should be the minimum he spends in prison. I’m a pretty staunch law and order guy, with little sympathy for those who break the law. But this kid was a _kid_. Fourteen years old is not an adult by any stretch of the imagination. He reached out for help and it wasn’t there for him. Did he handle things horribly? Yes. And he should go to jail for some time. But a kid is a kid. He certainly doesn’t deserve to to lose 25 years of his life. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-plea-deal/603751/69 "2011-11-23T20:16:51Z")
> [@David42](#): > > In another instance, we had a gay co-worker who couldn’t keep his gayness to himself. Yeah, that sucks. I know how it feels. Just yesterday at work this one woman rudely told us her boyfriend had “popped the question” and showed off the engagement ring she’d recieved from him. Beyond that, I regularly have to hear several of the women gossip to each other about their husbands or boyfriends and several of the men when sitting around the lunch table will talk to each other about their wives. And all the married people are so obnoxious and insensitive that they wear wedding rings and have pictures on their desks of themselves with their spouses and/or kids. I’ve never understood why so many straights can’t keep their “straightness” to themselves and not flaunt their sexuality. It’s really weird. I’m also furious because when I complained to HR, the woman(who was wearing a wedding ring!) asked me if I was joking! ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-plea-deal/603751/70 "2011-11-23T20:22:42Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Yeah, that sucks. I know how it feels. You apparently don’t, because what you wrote has nothing to do with the situation in **David** ’s post. Mentioning you are straight =/= sexual harassment. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-plea-deal/603751/71 "2011-11-23T20:23:46Z")
Also, I seriously doubt that the killer will serve anywhere close to 25 years. Generally speaking, most people are eligible for parole after they’ve served a third of their sentences. That’s why many people given “life sentences” are released after about 15 years. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-plea-deal/603751/72 "2011-11-23T20:26:12Z")
> [@David42](#): > > Yep, but the lesbian assistant principal defined gay rights as trumping all else, including appropriate dress and behavior. How do you know she was a lesbian? I don’t see it mentioned in either article. Also, even if she was, why are you bringing it up? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-plea-deal/603751/73 "2011-11-23T20:31:09Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > You apparently don’t, because what you wrote has nothing to do with the situation in **David** ’s post. Mentioning you are straight =/= sexual harassment. Except he complained about his co-worker not “keeping his gayness to himself” in addition to sexual harassment. I’m merely pointing out that vastly too many straight people don’t “keep their straightness” to themselves. Additionally he’s complained about the school allowing the boy to wear makeup which is similar to people wearing wedding rings and posting pictures of their spouses and kids. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-plea-deal/603751/74 "2011-11-23T20:43:13Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > It doesn’t make a difference what the crime is. Are you going to lock up a six-year old if he did a really bad thing? A three-year old? > > The reason fourteen-year olds can’t drive, can’t drink, can’t smoke, can’t vote etc. is that they have impaired decision making abilities. If we recognize they can’t make good decisions, why punish them for what they’re incapable of? No but fourteen years olds are allowed to have sex (at least provided its not with an adult), are allowed to stay at home alone, and make some adult judgements for themselves. And not murdering is very, very basic. > [@](#): > > I am literally not the same person I was when I was 14. Neither are you (I hope). When this boy is 30, do you think he’ll be the same person as the kid who killed his classmate? Depends on whether he is remorseful or not. > [@](#): > > Keeping him in prison until he’s 39 is a pointless waste of a life and of state resources that would have been better used elsewhere. No because even if McInnerney is not rehabilitated he must be punished and he should be thankful he is not to be put to death or locked away for the rest of his life./ ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-plea-deal/603751/75 "2011-11-23T20:46:15Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > How do you know she was a lesbian? > > I don’t see it mentioned in either article. > > Also, even if she was, why are you bringing it up? Because his allegation is that, being a lesbian, she supported the gay guy. Because, honestly, it’s hard to come up with another reason that someone sexually harassing someone would not have been looked at. And that’s what this is. Once your advances are rebuffed, anything else is harassment. It doesn’t matter if you are gay or straight. And, like others, I only support this if the same sentence would have been given to a woman. And in no way do I think this means he would kill again for other reasons. I’ve seen how you guys react to harassment, and it is completely different to how you react to everything else. It’s clear that making it sexual is a game changer. ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-plea-deal/603751/76 "2011-11-23T20:54:41Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Yeah, that sucks. I know how it feels. > > Just yesterday at work this one woman rudely told us her boyfriend had “popped the question” and showed off the engagement ring she’d recieved from him. > > Beyond that, I regularly have to hear several of the women gossip to each other about their husbands or boyfriends and several of the men when sitting around the lunch table will talk to each other about their wives. > > And all the married people are so obnoxious and insensitive that they wear wedding rings and have pictures on their desks of themselves with their spouses and/or kids. > > I’ve never understood why so many straights can’t keep their “straightness” to themselves and not flaunt their sexuality. > > It’s really weird. > > I’m also furious because when I complained to HR, the woman(who was wearing a wedding ring!) asked me if I was joking! I was complaining of the gay guy’s grabbing my ass every day and otherwise touching me in a sexual manner. I wouldn’t have had a problem if he was merely mentioning his boyfriend. ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-plea-deal/603751/77 "2011-11-23T21:06:55Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > How do you know she was a lesbian? > > I don’t see it mentioned in either article. > > Also, even if she was, why are you bringing it up? > **[Murder of Larry King](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E.O._Green_School_shooting)** > > Lawrence Fobes King, also known as Latisha King\[a\] (January 13, 1993 – February 14, 2008), was a 15-year-old student at E.O. Green Junior High School in Oxnard, California, who was shot twice by a fellow student, 14-year-old Brandon McInerney, and kept on life support for two days afterwards. > Newsweek described the shooting as "the most prominent gay-bias crime since the 1998 murder of Matthew Shepard", bringing attention to issues of gun violence as well as gender expression and sexual identi... I had thought it was in the news article, or maybe I originally read a different article. Anyway, Wikipedia above has the facts that Joy Epstein is an open lesbian. I am bringing it up because a boy lost his life over her belief that sexual harassment is ok as long as it’s expressing gay pride. That’s my wording, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-plea-deal/603751/78 "2011-11-23T21:41:11Z")
> [@David42](#): > > I was complaining of the gay guy’s grabbing my ass every day and otherwise touching me in a sexual manner. I wouldn’t have had a problem if he was merely mentioning his boyfriend. Except you also specifically complained about him “not keeping his gayness to himself” in addition to the rather odd claims of him sexually harassing dozens of co-workers while the company rather foolishly and inexplicably decided to open itself up to massive sexual harassment lawsuit. Additionally, you’ve complained about the school allowing Larry to wear makeup and high heels. That’s hardly sexual harassment. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-plea-deal/603751/79 "2011-11-23T21:42:51Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I’m a pretty staunch law and order guy, with little sympathy for those who break the law. But this kid was a _kid_. Fourteen years old is not an adult by any stretch of the imagination. He reached out for help and it wasn’t there for him. Did he handle things horribly? Yes. And he should go to jail for some time. But a kid is a kid. He certainly doesn’t deserve to to lose 25 years of his life. And what did the gay kid deserve to lose? You know he’s dead, right? You don’t come back from something like that. You know what, it sucks that this kid was made to feel uncomfortable, and he caught some shit from other kids. I feel for him. Sincerely, I know what it’s like to be embarrassed as a kid. But he \*executed \*this other kid because he didn’t like a gay guy coming on to him. Executed him. Two shots to the back of the head to make sure he was well and truly dead. That cannot be described with, “he handled it poorly.” If the circumstances were reversed and it was the gay kid who shot the other one because he’d been rebuffed and bullied, are you trying to tell me you take the same, fuck personal responsibility, stance? I’m betting you wouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-plea-deal/603751/80 "2011-11-23T21:43:02Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Except you also specifically complained about him “not keeping his gayness to himself” in addition to the rather odd claims of him sexually harassing dozens of co-workers while the company rather foolishly and inexplicably decided to open itself up to massive sexual harassment lawsuit. > > Additionally, you’ve complained about the school allowing Larry to wear makeup and high heels. > > That’s hardly sexual harassment. Grrr…Missed the edit window. “Odd” does not mean false. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-plea-deal/603751.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-plea-deal/603751.md?page=5)