# What do you think of this quote from True Detective **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 7, 2014, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-quote-from-true-detective/683155 "2014-03-07T22:51:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-quote-from-true-detective/683155/1 "2014-03-07T22:51:15Z")
I find it striking. It’s sat with me for a few days and, like a catchy tune, won’t go away easily: > [@](#): > > “I think human consciousness is a tragic misstep in evolution. We became too self-aware; nature created an aspect of nature separate from itself. We are creatures that should not exist, by natural law. We are things that labour under the illusion of having a self, a secretion of sensory experience and feeling: programmed with total assurance we are each somebody when, in fact, everybody is nobody.” Sort of related supplementals: are we the only species that doesn’t act in harmony with nature? Indeed, are we the only species that actively acts against nature? ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-quote-from-true-detective/683155/2 "2014-03-07T22:59:50Z")
It’s a nice quote as far as reflecting on human nature goes, but other species have self destructive behaviors, or evolve features that in some circumstances can reduce fitness (e.g. peacock tails). Other animals have a degree of self awareness and emotions and the problems that come from that (like grief). It does skirt the philosophical problem of consciousness. That is, what good is it? What is it for? Wouldn’t [p-zombies](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie) be just as effective? Apparently not. Or maybe something like that, like a machine that acts like a human but with no interior life, is impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-quote-from-true-detective/683155/3 "2014-03-07T23:43:48Z")
I think it’s fairly typical nihilist cant. And if that isn’t clear, I don’t agree with it at all. Yes, self-awareness does put us in a significant way outside of the rest of nature. Might as well yearn for the lost innocence of Eden as wish for self-awareness to go away. Sure, being human isn’t perfect, but I’d rather be a human than any other being on this planet. Roddy ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-quote-from-true-detective/683155/4 "2014-03-08T00:35:58Z")
Define “nature”. Are termite mounds natural? Beehives? The African grasslands exist mainly because elephants go around knocking down trees, otherwise it would all be forested. Is that natural? Against nature? It’s a virtually meaningless phrase. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-quote-from-true-detective/683155/5 "2014-03-08T11:13:17Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Define “nature”. > **[Nature](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nature)** > > Nature is an inherent character or constitution, particularly of the ecosphere or the universe as a whole. In this general sense nature refers to the laws, elements and phenomena of the physical world, including life. Although humans are part of nature, human activity or humans as a whole are often described as at times at odds, or outright separate and even superior to nature. > During the advent of modern scientific method in the last several centuries, nature became the passive reality, orga... … and the idea is everyone reading this is an aspect (of what the opening paragraphs of that page describe) “separate from itself” ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-quote-from-true-detective/683155/6 "2014-03-08T11:27:13Z")
It’s very Zen. It isn’t saying that we act against nature, just that we mistake our perception of what is happening as an actual experience of what is happening. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-quote-from-true-detective/683155/7 "2014-03-08T11:45:08Z")
without human consciousness, we will truly overrun the planet until we drive ourselves and most everything else to extinction. we are a species that recognises the value of another species’ life beyond food and survival, and the only ones who are capable of considering the future and reining in others of our own kind from destroying the upholstery. \* - when you say ‘nature’, you are just referring to the pretty parts right? ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-quote-from-true-detective/683155/8 "2014-03-08T14:31:34Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > It’s very Zen. It isn’t saying that we act against nature, just that we mistake our perception of what is happening as an actual experience of what is happening. ‘zen’ I can see. The rest I don’t think I can agree with. If he’s not saying it we do, in fact, act against nature while seemingly being within nature - that makes us unique, right? > [@shijinn](#): > > - when you say ‘nature’, you are just referring to the pretty parts right? 'nature 'is a whole lot more than a panoramic vista - see the Wiki link (above). I’m quite stuck on this sentence: > [@](#): > > We are creatures that should not exist, by natural law. I can’t quite see what is meant, in this context, by the phrase ‘natural law’. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-quote-from-true-detective/683155/9 "2014-03-08T15:07:29Z")
We are a product of ‘natural law’. As is everything else that exists in nature. So it’s a meaningless, nihilistic sentiment. I would not dwell on it too long. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-quote-from-true-detective/683155/10 "2014-03-08T15:14:11Z")
The only organised meaning of the phrase ‘natural law’ I could find pertains to justice within the legal system, which is why I was troubled by its use. Have you a link to what you are calling ‘natural law’? ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-quote-from-true-detective/683155/11 "2014-03-08T15:16:00Z")
Of course we are unique but we cannot act against nature because whatever is nature just is. The point that I think he is making is that we think we are in control of nature but the thought is just an illusion. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-quote-from-true-detective/683155/12 "2014-03-08T15:17:10Z")
Oh and I think it’s the opposite of nihilism. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-quote-from-true-detective/683155/13 "2014-03-08T15:52:04Z")
I’m not sure what you mean, **BrokenBriton**. Am I using it in a different way than it’s meant in the quote, i.e. the laws that govern the universe in which we live? ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-quote-from-true-detective/683155/14 "2014-03-08T16:25:28Z")
It’s a woo way of viewing nature. Everything that happens is “natural”. We may alter the planet to our needs more than, say, beavers but so what? I don’t agree with the quote nor think it’s particularly clever. ---
**Author:** ![ethelbert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@ethelbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ethelbert)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-quote-from-true-detective/683155/15 "2014-03-08T16:44:06Z")
[QUOTE=Marty Hart] Shut the fuck up Cohle. [/QUOTE] The only proper response. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-quote-from-true-detective/683155/16 "2014-03-08T16:44:37Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > Sort of related supplementals: are we the only species that doesn’t act in harmony with nature? Let’s say a certain species makes it to a new environment. A eucalyptus or snake fish or whatever. It sucks up all the water, eats all the local frogs, or some such so that the native flora or fauna is run to extinction. In your view, is that plant or animal acting in harmony with nature? ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-quote-from-true-detective/683155/17 "2014-03-08T17:24:35Z")
^ That is inded what we’re discussing. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > So it’s a meaningless, nihilistic sentiment. yep > [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > I think it’s the opposite of nihilism. yep 🙂 Carry on, please. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-quote-from-true-detective/683155/18 "2014-03-08T18:06:00Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > ^ That is inded what we’re discussing. > yep > > yep > > 🙂 Carry on, please. 😕 No, what are _you_ talking about? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-quote-from-true-detective/683155/19 "2014-03-08T19:37:54Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > ^ That is inded what we’re discussing. I agree. Also, your name is **BrokenBriton** and my name is **Ravenman**. It is currently March 8th where I am. We are posting on the Straight Dope Message Board. Now that we have all the most basic facts established, let’s return to my post: do you think that snake fish and eucalyptus trees “act against nature?” ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-quote-from-true-detective/683155/20 "2014-03-08T19:55:35Z")
I don’t know jack shit about “snake fish and eucalyptus trees” but I have a feeling you are aching to tell me something … [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-quote-from-true-detective/683155.md?page=2)