# What do you think of this style of writing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 31, 2008, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-style-of-writing/443330 "2008-03-31T00:23:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-style-of-writing/443330/21 "2008-04-01T02:18:52Z")
I had to read the sentence twice, slowly. I’m a fast reader but not smart enough to understand complex sentences without re-reading. I like the construction. He put quite a bit of meaning into relatively few words. But I think Bill Cosby said it better: “I brought you into this world, and I can take you out!” ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-style-of-writing/443330/22 "2008-04-01T02:35:39Z")
[QUOTE=Colophon] He’s hardly using any “big” or difficult words; not in that extract anyway. What words are “big” there? “Rebelliousness” is the longest; “rectitude” possibly the most obscure. Neither is likely to be beyond anyone who’s ever read a book. [/QUOTE] I think this is more of a case of “I know what all these words mean on their own, but when you string them together like this…” To me it looks like more of an attempt to appear clever than to communicate…which is tedious in fiction. Or any writing that isn’t of a technical nature, really. I think I finally understand what I was asking about in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=368806) now. Roth’s style seems to be what **RealityChuck** refers to as a “A ‘stained glass’ style.” ---
**Author:** ![jackelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@jackelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackelope)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-style-of-writing/443330/23 "2008-04-01T02:45:47Z")
I haven’t read any Philip Roth, but I liked this a lot. It’s a carefully constructed sentence, doing what it needs to do to get its point across but carrying great nuance and shades of meaning. There are some really nicely turned phrases in there: “…the pervasive rectitude of the era, whose taboos we’d taken between our teeth at birth…”: Taking the taboos “between our teeth” makes it an almost invasive thing to have these values foisted upon one. He could have said “whose taboos had been shoved down our throats,” but that would have been a cliche, not to mention that Roth’s image adds nuance by making “we” the subject: “_we_ had taken them.” “We” had willingly accepted the values, even though we’d now come to hate them. “…not least was the enacted ideology of parental self-sacrifice that bled us of wanton rebelliousness…”: Another fine-tuned phrase. “Enacted ideology” takes the parents’ demonstrative acts (or whatever it was) and turns it into a Passion Play, and I love the verb choice: the enacted ideology _bled_ us of wanton rebelliousness, as opposed to beating it out of us or somehow making us choose not to be rebellious. It weakened us until there was no enthusiasm for rebellion. And “wanton” is a great choice, adding a hint of sexuality to the rebellion that was bled out of us. “…and sent underground almost every indecent urge.” I love this image. It didn’t just “make us hide” the urges. It _sent them underground_. Underground is where seeds grow and change; it’s metaphorically where society’s outsiders spend their lives. No one ever uses the word “underground” to describe something healthy. So yeah, I’m impressed, and on the basis of this passage I’m more likely to pick up something of Roth’s. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-style-of-writing/443330/24 "2008-04-01T02:48:13Z")
For a novel, I think it’s fine. A certain type of novel, anyway. It would be annoying in a plot-centered novel (think Tom Clancy), but for something more sophisticated, when you want to enjoy the language, I don’t mind having to read a bit slower to understand densely-packed sentences like that. As **jackelope** noted, it is quite evocative. However: [QUOTE=koeeoaddi] I dislike it. It reads like a text book. [/QUOTE] You’ve been reading some godawful textbooks. A good textbook is written in language a 4th-grader could understand. The concepts, probably not. But certainly the language. I’m reminded of a quote: > [@Paul Dirac](#): > > Oppenheimer, they tell me you are writing poetry. I do not see how a man can work on the frontiers of physics and write poetry at the same time. They are in opposition. In science you want to say something that nobody knew before, in words which everyone can understand. In poetry you are bound to say… something that everybody knows already in words that nobody can understand. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-style-of-writing/443330/25 "2008-04-01T02:51:51Z")
I’ve read many of Roth’s books and I’ve enjoyed most of them (Deception was the only one I really really didn’t like). His books are littered with sentences or paragraphs in that style. The ending of\*\* I Married A Communist\*\* is somewhat similar in style but it’s one of my favourite passages in any novel. I don’t know how to spoiler so I won’t post it here. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-style-of-writing/443330/26 "2008-04-01T02:59:26Z")
[QUOTE=An Gadaí] I don’t know how to spoiler so I won’t post it here. [/QUOTE] [spoiler] put spoiler here.[/spoiler] but don’t put a space after either of the brackets. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-style-of-writing/443330/27 "2008-04-01T03:51:58Z")
[QUOTE=jackelope] So yeah, I’m impressed, and on the basis of this passage I’m more likely to pick up something of Roth’s. [/QUOTE] I’m impressed by your analysis. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-style-of-writing/443330/28 "2008-04-01T05:15:10Z")
Not sure that the writing style is similar, but my impression is about the same as with someone like Joseph Conrad. Not terribly fun to read, trying to fit accuracy in instead of fluidity, but not so unreadable that you can’t read straight through. Though if you do try to stop and reread the sentences enough to figure out all the radio instructions, you’ll get stuck for a bit and not really glean much more than you would through skimming. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-style-of-writing/443330/29 "2008-04-01T11:19:18Z")
**jackelope** , thanks for the breakdown. Looking at it again now I have a better appreciation for it. **Absolute** , thank you too. The simple distinction you draw between a “plot-centered novel” and something a bit more sophisticated is a succinct way of describing this type of book. In a way, I find this to be almost anti-Hemingway (who is one of my favorite authors.) They both import tremendous meaning with their words, but Hemingway did it in a minimalist style. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-style-of-writing/443330/30 "2008-04-01T19:14:00Z")
[QUOTE=Southern Yankee] Hemingway did it in a minimalist style. [/QUOTE] Obligatory 6-word story reference. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-style-of-writing/443330/31 "2008-04-01T20:03:52Z")
[QUOTE=elfkin477] [spoiler] put spoiler here.[/spoiler] but don’t put a space after either of the brackets. [/QUOTE] Thank you for fighting my ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-style-of-writing/443330/32 "2008-04-01T20:10:58Z")
It’s not even a sentence. It’s a list of three things with a lot of clauses. ETA: Although there might be some tertiary definition of “sentence” that might apply. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-style-of-writing/443330/33 "2008-04-01T20:47:33Z")
I like it, but, then, I like [Avram Davidson.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avram_Davidson) ---
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-style-of-writing/443330/34 "2008-04-01T21:00:07Z")
[QUOTE=Gary T] Did he really say “who’s” instead of “whose?” Hard to imagine a professional writer would make such a goof, and that it would get by the editor. [/QUOTE] Roth used “whose.” It is on page 42 of the 1st. Vintage International edition. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-style-of-writing/443330/35 "2008-04-01T21:23:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by **Two and a Half Inches of Fun** > > Roth used “whose.” It is on page 42 of the 1st. Vintage International edition. Yep, I confirmed it was my error in post #18. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-style-of-writing/443330/36 "2008-04-01T21:29:48Z")
[QUOTE=elbows] I don’t care for it. It seems badly edited. Poor use of punctuation and bad sentence structure keeps it from flowing. [/QUOTE] I agree. The list should have been separated by commas or semi-colons, not switched in the middle. A dash would have been better to set off “who’s taboos we’d taken between our teeth at birth” clause. “Who’s” is incorrecct and who the fuck uses “rectitude”. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-style-of-writing/443330/37 "2008-04-01T21:30:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by **KneadtoKnow** > > Obligatory 6-word story reference. Did Hemingway ever _really_ say that, or is it just a myth? I’ve see it referenced a number of times, but never cited. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-style-of-writing/443330/38 "2008-04-01T21:48:45Z")
[QUOTE=Southern Yankee] Yep, I confirmed it was my error in post #18. [/QUOTE] Sorry, I missed post 18. I searched for “who’s.” ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-style-of-writing/443330/39 "2008-04-01T21:51:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Two and a Half Inches of Fun > > Sorry, I missed post 18. I searched for “who’s.” Nothing to apologize about, I only pointed it out out of my own vanity. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![jackelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@jackelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackelope)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-style-of-writing/443330/40 "2008-04-01T23:31:06Z")
[QUOTE=Earl Snake-Hips Tucker] It’s not even a sentence. It’s a list of three things with a lot of clauses. ETA: Although there might be some tertiary definition of “sentence” that might apply. [/QUOTE] It’s a sentence. There are two complete subject-verb sets, separated by a semicolon. If this is the “tertiary” definition of a sentence, I’m unfamiliar with numbers one and two. The first clause’s subject and verb are “One was”; the second clause’s are “ideology” and “was,” though they’ve been reversed for effect. If we were going to straighten the second clause out into a simple, linear subject-verb form (thereby destroying the structure and meaning that Roth was obviously careful to put into it), it would read, “the enacted ideology of parental self-sacrifice, that bled us of wanton rebelliousness and sent underground almost every indecent urge, was not least.” But it sounds terrible and doesn’t make as much sense that way, which is why it wasn’t written that way in the first place. Obviously, the sentence is taken out of context, because we’re not told what the “one” is one of. Presumably the preceding sentence would clear that up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-style-of-writing/443330.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-of-this-style-of-writing/443330.md?page=3)