# What do you think the Brits will do if they find Richard III's remains? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 13, 2012, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-the-brits-will-do-if-they-find-richard-iiis-remains/634591 "2012-09-13T12:10:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-the-brits-will-do-if-they-find-richard-iiis-remains/634591/101 "2013-02-05T16:14:37Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Unlikely. There aren’t that many mtDNA groups in all of Europe There are only a few (twenty or so, I think) haplogroups in Europe. But that’s much different then saying there’s only twenty or so distinguishable lineages. Haplogroups are just large groupings of lineages that are theoretically related, each haplogroup then contains many distinguishable matrilineal lines. That said, I’m not sure what the actual numbers of lineages in Renissance England would be like, but googling one paper found 135 lineages in a sample of 447 modern day Icelanders. So I’d think Richard’s England would easily have many thousands of lineages (though the aristocracy might be more limited). The paper for Richard’s DNA analysis hasn’t been published yet, but I imagine it will include some less hand-wavy estimates when it does. The match still is just supporting evidence, but they’re not just saying “both the body and Richard’s descendent belong to Halagroup H” which would have a pretty high probability of just happening by chance. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-the-brits-will-do-if-they-find-richard-iiis-remains/634591/102 "2013-02-05T19:16:00Z")
I do not really understand the attempt to claim York Minster as a final resting place for him. I think there is some sort of belief that the ‘House of York’ emanated from Yorkshire, when in fact this was just a title.Holding titular awards is a very different thing to being a native of the area, heck Prince Charles is hardly Welsh or Cornish, even though he holds those titles. It would be more accurate to portray Richard as being a Southerner and Henry as part of the Northern baronial alliance and the Wars of the Roses being a North vs South affair ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-the-brits-will-do-if-they-find-richard-iiis-remains/634591/103 "2013-02-05T19:35:12Z")
During Edward’s reign, Richard was his deputy in the north, operating out of York. See the [wiki article on Richard III](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_III_of_England#Council_of_the_North): > [@](#): > > **Council of the North** > Richard controlled the north of England until Edward IV’s death. There, and especially in the city of York, he was highly regarded.[26] Edward IV set up the Council of the North as an administrative body in 1472 to improve government control and economic prosperity and benefit the whole of Northern England. Richard served as its first Lord President from 1472 until his accession to the throne.[27] On his accession, he made his nephew John de la Pole, 1st Earl of Lincoln, president and formally institutionalised it as an off-shoot of the Royal Council; all its letters and judgements were issued on behalf of the king and in his name.[28] The council had a budget of 2,000 marks per annum (approximately £1,320) and had issued “Regulations” by July of that year: councillors to act impartially and declare vested interests, and to meet at least every three months. Its main focus of operations was Yorkshire and the north-east, and its primary responsibilities were land disputes, keeping of the king’s peace, and punishing lawbreakers.[29] He also led the English troops into battle against the Scots, winning back Berwick-upon-Tweed, a significant success and likely to endear him to northerners. He also had his own son invested as Prince of Wales at York, rather than in London, and (at least according to the [City of York Museums Trust](http://www.historyofyork.org.uk/themes/medieval/king-richard-iii-and-york)) planned to be buried there himself: > [@](#): > > Richard even planned to be buried at York Minster, a radical ambition as English monarchs were traditionally interred at Westminster Abbey. He planned to build an enormous chantry chapel at the Minster where 100 additional chaplains would pray for his soul. And finally, the day after his death, this was the official report of the York Mayor’s Serjeant of the Mace: > [@](#): > > ‘King Richard, late mercifully reigning over us, was through great treason . . . piteously slain and murdered, to the great heaviness of this city,’ That’s a pretty gutsy statement from a municipal official the day after a new King came to power, when treason was a capital offence. That strikes me as a contemporary indication that the townsfolk of York had a high regard for Richard. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-the-brits-will-do-if-they-find-richard-iiis-remains/634591/104 "2013-02-05T20:13:42Z")
Yes but, apart from the Northern Council, changes to the judiciary to ensure consistency, economic prosperity, fiscal responsibility, impartial justice, Scarborough Castle, standardisation of weights & measures, ensuring that law was read out in English and not in Latin to defendants, driving out the Scots, What did he ever do for York? ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-the-brits-will-do-if-they-find-richard-iiis-remains/634591/105 "2013-02-05T20:24:24Z")
Aquaducts. ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-the-brits-will-do-if-they-find-richard-iiis-remains/634591/106 "2013-02-05T21:48:15Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > …[Richard] (at least according to the [City of York Museums Trust](http://www.historyofyork.org.uk/themes/medieval/king-richard-iii-and-york)) planned to be buried there [York] himself. That’s one of the claims that’s been doing the rounds that doesn’t quite stand up to scrutiny. There is absolutely no doubt that Richard III was closely associated with York. There is also no doubt that he planned to extend the Minster with a huge chantry chapel. But did he intend to be buried there? Quite possibly. But that’s just speculation. Granted, it is plausible, well-informed speculation which has in the past been put forward by some very reputable historians, but it needs to be treated as such, not as hard fact. It also needs to be said that Richard seems to have had a thing about chantry chapels (did he fear for his immortal soul?) and so founded quite a few of them elsewhere, usually in other places with which he had particular associations. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-the-brits-will-do-if-they-find-richard-iiis-remains/634591/107 "2013-02-06T07:35:12Z")
Where are his wife and children buried? ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-the-brits-will-do-if-they-find-richard-iiis-remains/634591/108 "2013-02-06T07:48:24Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Where are his wife and children buried? His [Queen Consort](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Neville) was buried in London, [his only (legitimate) son](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_of_Middleham,_Prince_of_Wales) in Yorkshire. In other words, a long way from each other. Both predeceased Richard. ETA: There was also a [bastard son](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_of_Gloucester) who vanished some time after Richard’s death, and no doubt ended up in an unmarked grave somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-the-brits-will-do-if-they-find-richard-iiis-remains/634591/109 "2013-02-06T16:07:24Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Maybe they’ll carry on looking for his horse nearby. So he said. His royal namesake–I can’t figure out the lineage–also proposed to trade his kingdom. God got mixed up and gave Richard III what Richard II asked for: And my large kingdom for a little grave, A little little grave, an obscure grave; Or I’ll be buried in the king’s highway, Some way of common trade, where subjects’ feet May hourly trample on their sovereign’s head; For on my heart they tread now whilst I live; And buried once, why not upon my head? _Richard II_, III:3 ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-the-brits-will-do-if-they-find-richard-iiis-remains/634591/110 "2013-02-06T17:11:16Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > God got mixed up and gave Richard III what Richard II asked for :smack: That was Richard the second, **Act** three. [/God] ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-the-brits-will-do-if-they-find-richard-iiis-remains/634591/111 "2013-02-06T18:46:35Z")
Nm ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-the-brits-will-do-if-they-find-richard-iiis-remains/634591/112 "2013-02-06T18:55:26Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > His royal namesake–I can’t figure out the lineage–also proposed to trade his kingdom. First cousin, twice removed. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-the-brits-will-do-if-they-find-richard-iiis-remains/634591/113 "2013-02-09T03:19:59Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > First cousin, twice removed. Yes, Richard II was twice removed, if you count the takeover of the Lords Appellant. (Richard III was **once** removed, but multiply stabbed.) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-the-brits-will-do-if-they-find-richard-iiis-remains/634591/114 "2013-02-09T03:31:16Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Also, the [facial reconstruction](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-21328380) looks just like his portraits. What, like [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Richard_III_earliest_surviving_portrait.jpg)? Was painted in 1520; doubt the artist ever saw him living. For a more contemporary portrait, if you can call it that, see [here.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rous_Roll_-_Richard_and_family.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-the-brits-will-do-if-they-find-richard-iiis-remains/634591/115 "2013-02-09T03:33:25Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > He was buried in a Church. [But none too ceremoniously.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhumation_of_Richard_III_of_England#Death_and_burial) ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-the-brits-will-do-if-they-find-richard-iiis-remains/634591/116 "2013-02-09T13:40:00Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What, like [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Richard_III_earliest_surviving_portrait.jpg)? Was painted in 1520; doubt the artist ever saw him living. For a more contemporary portrait, if you can call it that, see [here.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rous_Roll_-_Richard_and_family.jpg) Except that the ‘more contemporary portrait’ is a not-very-good engraving from the 1860s, albeit derived from [this](http://twitter.com/sixteenthCgirl/status/273129536563077120), which is earlier than the Society of Antiquaries portrait. ---
**Author:** ![Bob\_X](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@Bob\_X](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob_X)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-the-brits-will-do-if-they-find-richard-iiis-remains/634591/117 "2013-02-10T05:52:19Z")
The mitochondrial-DNA match, helping to confirm the identification, was something that had to be done this generation, or would never be possible again: Richard’s sister had the same mDNA as he did, and so did her daughter, and daughter’s daughter, etc. but the two descendants who were tested were males, the purely-female line having stopped with no further daughters. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-think-the-brits-will-do-if-they-find-richard-iiis-remains/634591.md?page=5)