# What does 9C HPUS mean? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 27, 2016, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-9c-hpus-mean/775734 "2016-12-27T23:04:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-9c-hpus-mean/775734/1 "2016-12-27T23:04:13Z")
Bought some **Chestal** cough syrup today. Was disappointed to discover it’s actually a homeopathic product, even though I’ve used it for years with good effect. I’m a little confused by the active ingredients and what they mean, though, since they’re not described in any rational measurement: \*\*\* Dulcamara 5C HPUS - Ferrum phosphoricum 9C HPUS - Hydrastis canadensis 9C HPUS - Kali bichromicum 9C HPUS - Nux vomica 9C HPUS\*\* Google wasn’t very kind, only cites I could find were just praising how wonderful this homeopathic stuff is. Little help, anyone? ---
**Author:** ![W0X0F](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b77776/32.png) [@W0X0F](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/W0X0F)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-9c-hpus-mean/775734/2 "2016-12-27T23:21:39Z")
HPUS is the Homœopathic Pharmacopœia of the United States - the official compendium of homeopathic drugs in the US. 5C and 9C refer to how diluted the ingredient is on a logarithmic scale where each step is 100 times. So 5C means 100 to the 5th power (1:10,000,000,000) and 9C is 100 to the 9th power. According to Wikipedia, 12C is the greatest dilution to likely contain even one molecule of the original substance. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-9c-hpus-mean/775734/3 "2016-12-27T23:42:23Z")
Ugh, so it really is genuine homeopathy then. I was hoping they just said that to sell more products. :smack: If I do manage to find that one original molecule, do I win a prize? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-9c-hpus-mean/775734/4 "2016-12-27T23:48:00Z")
Even that might be too powerful for you… ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-9c-hpus-mean/775734/5 "2016-12-28T00:58:07Z")
Homeopathic medicine is truly remarkable. It shows how powerful a placebo can be. I wrestle all the time with telling people I know what it really is and just letting them take it, because just the belief that it works seems to make people feel better. I don’t necessarily like telling people that Santa isn’t real, but I also feel like people I care about are getting scammed. Then again, not all homeopathic remedies are the same. I’ve [read](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12424502/) that zinc gluconate can decrease a cold’s duration in clinical trials (not homeopathic “provings”) and if you take it in lozenge form with a large enough dose it might actually work. To me that’s where you start crossing the line from being magic spirit water to actual medicine. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-9c-hpus-mean/775734/6 "2016-12-28T01:16:30Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Homeopathic medicine is truly remarkable. It shows how powerful a placebo can be. I wrestle all the time with telling people I know what it really is and just letting them take it, because just the belief that it works seems to make people feel better. I don’t necessarily like telling people that Santa isn’t real, but I also feel like people I care about are getting scammed. > > Then again, not all homeopathic remedies are the same. I’ve [read](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12424502/) that zinc gluconate can decrease a cold’s duration in clinical trials (not homeopathic “provings”) and\*\* if you take it in lozenge form with a large enough dose it might actually work.\*\* To me that’s where you start crossing the line from being magic spirit water to actual medicine. If the dose were “large enough”, it’s not truly homeopathic. Or you’re looking at water intoxication. ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-9c-hpus-mean/775734/7 "2016-12-28T01:44:03Z")
And the Nux Vomica is Strychnine. Be thankful it’s diluted. Dennis ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-9c-hpus-mean/775734/8 "2016-12-28T01:54:48Z")
A 9C dilution is 1 part in 100\*\*9. That is 1/100 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00. HPUS is the reference document (Homœopathic Pharmacopœia of the United States) which defines “Ferrum phosphoricum 9C” in this context. In medicine, in the UK, you might have seen BP (British Pharmacopoeia) instead. A pharmacopoeia describes how to make pharmacuticals and what they are used for. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-9c-hpus-mean/775734/9 "2016-12-28T02:22:45Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > If the dose were “large enough”, it’s not truly homeopathic. > > Or you’re looking at water intoxication. 😃 Cold-Eeze offers lozenges with enough zinc gluconate to actually “matter” (13.3 mg) yet it’s still labeled as homeopathic. I wonder if they just call it homeopathic to be trendy. Like I said, not all homeopathic remedies (or items labeled as such) are the same. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-9c-hpus-mean/775734/10 "2016-12-28T03:19:22Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Ugh, so it really is genuine homeopathy then. I was hoping they just said that to sell more products. :smack: > > If I do manage to find that one original molecule, do I win a prize? Those powers meant you’d be able to find millions (9 is 3 larger than 12… which means 100 ^3 = 10^6 times more ) or billions (5 gives 100^7 or 100 billion times more )… because the larger the number the weaker in concentration, which to homeopathy is said to be stronger in effect. Still thats a tiny tiny amount of the active ingredients. Actually there are two active ingredients you didn’t mention - nor did they … they put them as inactive. (well they are the most active in this mix !) Citric Acid Sugar ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-9c-hpus-mean/775734/11 "2016-12-28T03:25:04Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > Actually there are two active ingredients you didn’t mention - nor did they … they put them as inactive. (well they are the most active in this mix !) > > Citric Acid > Sugar I’m actually pissed because Walgreen’s didn’t carry the Chestal syrup I normally get, which is honey-based. This one’s the so-called “Cold & Cough” formula but it’s missing the one ingredient (honey) which made the other type worth buying. Instead it’s just Vitamin C-flavored sugar water, which is about as effective as you’d expect it to be. Oh, and _maybe_ one molecule of strychnine. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-9c-hpus-mean/775734/12 "2016-12-28T05:26:40Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Cold-Eeze offers lozenges with enough zinc gluconate to actually “matter” (13.3 mg) yet it’s still labeled as homeopathic. I wonder if they just call it homeopathic to be trendy. No, not to be trendy, but to be able to market it with specific health claims that the FDA would not normally let them make. There’s a special loophole for homeopathy. Someone got the zinc glutonate listed on the HPUS and then they’re free to claim that it actually can help a cold. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-9c-hpus-mean/775734/13 "2016-12-28T17:06:44Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > A 9C dilution is 1 part in 100\*\*9. That is 1/100 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00. > > HPUS is the reference document (Homœopathic Pharmacopœia of the United States) which defines “Ferrum phosphoricum 9C” in this context. In medicine, in the UK, you might have seen BP (British Pharmacopoeia) instead. > > A pharmacopoeia describes how to make pharmacuticals and what they are used for. Among all the other absurdities in this alternate “scientific” universe of pathies and copias (too lazy to get the ligature), with what methods can a chemical (molecular) dilution of 1/100 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 be measured? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-9c-hpus-mean/775734/14 "2016-12-28T17:16:27Z")
You also have to ask just what all of those trace impurities are diluted in. What’s the ethanol content of that syrup, for instance? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-9c-hpus-mean/775734/15 "2016-12-28T17:53:47Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > No, not to be trendy, but to be able to market it with specific health claims that the FDA would not normally let them make. There’s a special loophole for homeopathy. Someone got the zinc glutonate listed on the HPUS and then they’re free to claim that it actually can help a cold. I think they’re slowly closing that loophole. The FTC recently started requiring [disclaimers](http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/homeopathic-remedies-now-require-disclaimers-saying-they-are-not-scientific-180961183/) on homeopathic medicine. Hopefully that is a step toward stopping the fraud which has been going on for centuries. I think it’ll take action from the FDA for that to happen though.