# What does blue/urban America see in the Democrats? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 15, 2020, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-blue-urban-america-see-in-the-democrats/851865 "2020-04-15T17:22:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-blue-urban-america-see-in-the-democrats/851865/1 "2020-04-15T17:22:24Z")
In the “[What does Middle America see in Trump](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=894126)” thread, \*\*Ann Hedonia \*\*wrote a terrific post - a liberal trying to show things from the perspective of a Trump voter. It is very long, so I have it spoiled so as not to clutter up the thread. > [@What does Middle America see in Donald Trump](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/18): > > I’m going to give it shot and try to get into the head of the middle America Trump voter, with a little empathy. > It’s Easter Sunday, 2020. > > You are a lifelong citizen of Smalltown USA. > > Your church and religion is very important to you. You believe that the hand of God is behind the success of your farm or small business, even as you have become less and less successful. Your feel that every time you open your mail, it’s a tax bill or notice of a new regulation that costs you money. If you are a farmer, there are regulations about what you can grow and how much you can sell it for. You may not even own your land, you lease it and are tied into stringent rules that put the well-being of you and your family below that of prairie dogs and snakes. If you own a small business, there are rules about who you can hire and fire, the size and layout of your store, everything. Rules made by rich men living in coastal cities thousands of miles away. Men that care nothing about you or your family. Their solution is always another government program that “gives” you back part of what was taken from you. Then they make fun of you for not clamoring for their crumbs and accuse you of voting against your self-interest. > > And they are always accusing you of racism, even though your closest friends and neighbors, the family that owns the next farm over, are black. > > Even though you are successful, it’s hard. You succeed only through the grace of God. And you truly believe that it wouldn’t be nearly so hard if the government would step back. > > This year it’s worse. You’ve been regulated out of your church. The government has taken Easter away from you. Because there is a pandemic affecting the coastal cities, the places that are the root of all evil. And the government has scientists and experts that are telling you that you can’t go to church because of this, even though you don’t know or don’t know anyone that knows someone that’s been sick. > So you stay home from church, the place you want to be more than any other place in the world. > You turn on the TV to watch the news, and see a bunch of liberal newscasters making fun of you and calling you a murderer for wanting to go to church. Your President (more on him later) wanted you to be able to go, but the liberal newscasters made fun of him and called him a murderer, too. > > Then the news ends and the network begins their Easter evening programming. The Greatest Story Ever Told? The Sound of Music? - No, it’s Jesus Christ Superstar, a musical about your Lord and Savior. You watch in horror as a bunch of multicultural hippies spray paint “Jesus” all over the set and generally portray Jesus as the leader of a hippie cult. You watch as Jesus is caressed by a prostitute. You are further outraged by the sympathetic portrayal of a black Judas that looks like a gang member. You’re outraged that this is now normal. You’re outraged that your kids seem to think this production, while a little “out there”, is great because it makes religion more accessible. You’re outraged that your grandkids love it. You want the America of your youth back. > > Three years ago, you elected a President that claimed to understand you. But even he is no match for the forces that have been working to undermine you and your America. Because here is, surrounded by the rich elites you hate, telling you you can’t go to church in a tone that makes it clear that he’s speaking under duress. And he’s trying his best to signal to you that he’s being held hostage. But he’s still your strong man, look at how he gets in some nasty jabs at his captors. > > And he was winning. Look at how he’s defied the FBI and Congress. Look at how he’s smacking down all those liberal governors that are trying to take your freedom. You cheer every time he fires another rich elite that’s been sent to control him. You can’t wait to vote for him again so he can finish the job. Now they’ve tried to destroy the economy he has built back up just to take him out. But you won’t let them. You want his autocracy and you want him to grab as much power for himself as he can. Because you really do believe that only he can fix this. > > —-end empathy—- > > That’s what we are up against and it’s formidable and multi-faceted. Blaming it on racism and misogyny, while it may be true in some sense, is a vast oversimplification of a deeper dissatisfaction and will lead to a Democratic loss in November. In the same thread, someone also complained that liberals are told all the time how they must learn to understand how Trump voters think, but that the favor is never returned - that conservatives aren’t told that they need to understand how urban liberals think. So it is only fair to have a counterpart thread - what Trump voters need to understand about why urban liberals vote the way urban liberals do. Can someone write up an opposite version of what **Ann Hedonia** did - write about what explains the urban/blue voter mindset, \*\*in a way that Trump voters can sympathize and relate to? \*\* [spoiler]Some starter stuff: Seeing numerous mass shootings, but conservatives only offer up thoughts and prayers and call for even more guns; Being born gay/lesbian, but conservatives then insist that LGBT convert to being straight, or at least don’t get married; A woman wanting an abortion, but being told that she can’t or shouldn’t; Struggling on minimum wage and unable to get by in an era of spiraling living cost; Being atheist, Muslim or other, and frustrated by living in a nation that is majority Christian; Being alarmed over climate change; but seeing conservatives doing nothing and indeed flat-out denying it; Seeing a defense budget of over $700 billion annually; Seeing big companies like Boeing get bailouts instead of having to run a properly tight financial ship; Being frustrated at seeing the top 1 percent control or amass an immense amount of wealth; Having tough questions about God and Christianity, but Christians only offering up trite cliches and platitudes; Having a healthcare system that charges tens of thousands of dollars and bankrupts patients; Seeing conservatives call for “fiscal responsibility,” yet run up huge Bush and Trump deficits[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-blue-urban-america-see-in-the-democrats/851865/2 "2020-04-15T17:37:04Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Can someone write up an opposite version of what **Ann Hedonia** did - write about what explains the urban/blue voter mindset, \*\*in a way that Trump voters can sympathize and relate to? \*\* That might be an issue though, because politics is largely about moral values at this point and our moral values are divergent. As an urban liberal I value a sustainable society where we make life better for our kids generation, even if it means hardships for our generation (higher taxes for example). I think society functions best when everyone is able to contribute their talents and perspectives. A society where only 20% of people are allowed to become politicians, scientists, business leaders, etc. will be run less effectively than a society where nearly 100% of people have the opportunity to contribute. In Japan for example due to sexism there aren’t many women in science, but I’m sure a lot of women could make amazing contributions to their scientific system if they were more egalitarian. [https://www.natureindex.com/news-blog/lost-in-japan-a-generation-of-brilliant-women](https://www.natureindex.com/news-blog/lost-in-japan-a-generation-of-brilliant-women) Also having a broad voting base of all genders, races and religions is a good way to thwart fascism. It isn’t always perfect, but having people who know they will be targets of dictatorship having the ability to vote and contribute to politics means they know their rights will not be infringed. If the 40% of MS residents who were black people living in Jim Crow Mississippi had been able to vote in fair elections, they would’ve been treated somewhat better. Also I feel that while people have personal responsibility for their choices, environment also plays a role. A society where people are politically/socially marginalized, exposed to environmental toxins, malnourished, etc is going to produce more dysfunction and less productive members of society than one where people are treated fairly and where we invest in everyone’s health and education. Plus seeing how our current plutocratic system is unsustainable. Not only does our plutocracy make life very hard for large numbers of people, the belief that neither party will confront plutocracy causes people to either become despondent or push for more radical solutions that may not work. People like Bernie Sanders are the compromise candidate to a lot of citizens, and if nothing is done about plutocracy it makes it easier for someone like Chavez or Orban to come to power. You need economic justice to have political stability and a high quality of life. So fundamentally, it largely comes down to what Jnathan Haidt says. I value egalitarianism, sustainability, encouraging human capital and checks/balances that help keep democracy stable. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-blue-urban-america-see-in-the-democrats/851865/3 "2020-04-15T17:38:00Z")
I’m going to think about this some more. I see several bullet points up there that are valid from a Democratic point of view, but are worded in a way that makes them seem immoral to a Republican (AIUI). For example, non-Christian wants rights vs nobody should be non-Christian. I do think this is a valuable exercise. Anything that fosters mutual understanding can only help. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-blue-urban-america-see-in-the-democrats/851865/4 "2020-04-15T18:12:58Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > People like Bernie Sanders are the compromise candidate to a lot of citizens Unless you’re using “a lot” in the sense of, “hey, a few hundred thousand to a couple million is a lot of people!”, this is just not remotely true. Very few Americans have views to the left of those that Sanders publicly states or see a Social Democrat as a compromise position. It’s still the far left of American politics. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-blue-urban-america-see-in-the-democrats/851865/5 "2020-04-15T18:45:30Z")
I see the Democrats as a tool to help achieve good outcomes. I don’t admire the Democratic Party or its members for being Democrats. I don’t worship the Democratic Party or its members. I don’t revere the Democratic Party or its members. When the party or one or more of its members does something I consider appropriate, I give it credit. When it does something I consider harmful, I give them a demerit. But the point is the overall outcomes. Someone has to be in charge. A choice must be made. So long as having Democrats in power achieves better outcomes than Republicans in power, I will support Democrats. I want policies based on outcomes, not based on arbitrary “moral” principles. What are good outcomes? - Are more people free to make individual chhoices? - Are more people given truly equal opportunities? - Are more people put in a position to contribute positively to the society? - Do we live in a good environment? - Is the air clean, is the water clean, do we have access to good food? - Is the system fair? - Are more people free from harm and oppression? - Is the economic system optimized to produce results that benefit the maximum number of people? - Are people not victimized for personal life choices or for inherent characteristics, such as religion (or not) or language, or birthplace, or skin color, or economic background, or gender, or sexuality? I don’t much care about identifying “evil” and punishing it. In the current climate, supporting Democrats is closer to benefiting everyone, and supporting Republicans tends to benefit a small elite at the expense of everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-blue-urban-america-see-in-the-democrats/851865/6 "2020-04-15T19:09:07Z")
I’m neither Democratic nor liberal nor urban, but here’s what I see in the Democratic party as a lifelong and utterly dissatisfied Republican. The Democratic party cares about individual people. The young, the hungry, the sick, the poor, the foreign, the helpless, the criminal, etc. And they want to help those individuals. The greatest commandment is “love God with all your heart and mind and soul and strength”, and the next is “love your neighbor”. America is the greatest country and it’s our Christian duty to use our blood and treasure to help all people as our neighbors. The Democrats will. To mix metaphors: the Republican party are the rich men trying to squeeze through the narrow gate. They follow false prophets who eat poisonous fruits. They throw stones at each others’ eyes. They are Pharisees who put custom above righteousness. > [@Matthew 25:31-46](#): > > “When the Son of Man comes in his glory and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be assembled before him, and he will separate people one from another like a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ And the king will answer them, ‘I tell you the truth, just as you did it for one of the least of these brothers or sisters of mine, you did it for me.’ > > “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels! For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink. I was a stranger and you did not receive me as a guest, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they too will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not give you whatever you needed?’ Then he will answer them, ‘I tell you the truth, just as you did not do it for one of the least of these, you did not do it for me.’ And these will depart into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” It is clear to me which is the party of sheep and which is the party of goats. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-blue-urban-america-see-in-the-democrats/851865/7 "2020-04-15T19:41:25Z")
Human beings have value regardless of their race, class, religion or how much money they make. Government should represent and support that. So that means things like supporting public education, health care, equal rights, keeping people out of poverty, keeping people safe from gun violence, LGBTQ rights, worker’s rights & union support, immigration rights and treating immigrants of all kinds as human beings even as they wind through the legal process, a right to vote without obstruction, etc. The Democrats aren’t 100% on this stuff, but they’re miles ahead of the GOP. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-blue-urban-america-see-in-the-democrats/851865/8 "2020-04-15T19:55:00Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > keeping people safe from gun violence Not to nitpick on one specific issue, but the difference between this and many of the other issues (such as LGBT) that you listed are that I think many Trump voters would agree, “Yes, we indeed do want to deny and restrict LGBT rights” but when it comes to “keeping people safe from gun violence,” most gun supporters are in favor of the same thing - they want guns \*because \*they think guns stop gun violence (in a paradoxical but logical way.) Not a single Trump voter would say, “We want more gun ownership because we love those Sandy Hooks, those Las Vegas, we want more Columbines.” They tout gun ownership as a way of being able to \*terminate \*such mass shootings much more easily (the “good guy with a gun stopping bad guy with a gun” logic.) ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-blue-urban-america-see-in-the-democrats/851865/9 "2020-04-15T20:49:05Z")
**What does blue/urban America see in the Democrats?** Look at a group of Democrats, you’re gonna see a diverse group of people. Sure, like anything else in our society, you’re gonna see a lot of men. But it will be a diverse group when compared to, say, a group of Republicans. Look at a group of Republicans, and you’re gonna see a bunch of white guys. Urban America is diverse, so is the Democratic party. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-blue-urban-america-see-in-the-democrats/851865/10 "2020-04-15T21:05:32Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > They tout gun ownership as a way of being able to \*terminate \*such mass shootings much more easily (the “good guy with a gun stopping bad guy with a gun” logic.) I’m aware that that’s their public argument. It, uh, doesn’t come through via the guy with twenty AR-15s bragging about how he’s going to murder any feds who try to take them away 'cause _America_. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-blue-urban-america-see-in-the-democrats/851865/11 "2020-04-15T21:17:07Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > **What does blue/urban America see in the Democrats?** > > Look at a group of Democrats, you’re gonna see a diverse group of people. Sure, like anything else in our society, you’re gonna see a lot of men. But it will be a diverse group when compared to, say, a group of Republicans. Look at a group of Republicans, and you’re gonna see a bunch of white guys. Urban America is diverse, so is the Democratic party. Hard to tell looking at their candidates. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-blue-urban-america-see-in-the-democrats/851865/12 "2020-04-15T21:30:36Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Hard to tell looking at their candidates. You don’t see diversity among Democratic candidates at all compared to Republicans? Or are you just talking about the 2020 candidates for the presidential nomination? And are you suggesting that the diversity among nominated candidates is somehow a better measure of diversity than looking at the party as a whole, meaning everyone who works for some aspect of the party or votes for it? For example, you don’t see more diversity among Democrats than Republicans in these pictures? – [The historic 116th Congress, in 17 pictures - Vox](https://www.vox.com/2019/1/3/18167176/history-congress-women-diversity) ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-blue-urban-america-see-in-the-democrats/851865/13 "2020-04-15T21:31:49Z")
You should take a look at my local representation in the south suburbs of Chicago. And on a federal level I agree that there have been lots of white guy Presidents. > **[Illinois's 2nd congressional district](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois%27s_2nd_congressional_district)** > > Illinois's 2nd congressional district is a congressional district in the U.S. state of Illinois. Based in the south suburbs of Chicago, the district includes southern Cook county, eastern Will county, and Kankakee county, as well as the city of Chicago's far southeast side. > Illinois's 2nd congressional district is adjacent to the 1st congressional district to the north and west, the 16th congressional district to the south, and Indiana's 1st congressional district to the east. The district's n... ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-blue-urban-america-see-in-the-democrats/851865/14 "2020-04-15T21:47:21Z")
In both threads, there’s the underlying theory that people have reasons for doing things. If you grow up in Pillowton and the Pillowton Cowhawks are the pro baseball team and, as you’re growing up, everyone is telling you that you need to support the team, wear the team colors, go to the games, cheer for your guys, and push new and younger people into doing the same - well, that’s what you do. In the cities, for example, you’re told often and dogmatically that gay people are good, kindly people, who are being attacked for no reason, and who need to be supported. In the rural areas, you’ll be told often and dogmatically that gay people are people who live in sin, mocking God, and act at the devil’s orders to try and corrupt youth and lead them away from God’s laws. Functionally, neither of these viewpoints is objectively correct and, more importantly, very few people have taken either of these viewpoints on through conscious consideration of the merits or pros and cons. On this forum, perhaps, the average person might have a justification for their view. But even there, did you have the viewpoint _before_ or _after_ you found and understood the justification? Among the average middle schooler, what percentage of them do you think looked up a debate between a variety of philosophers on the subject and watched through to hear the different angles on the topic, went out to a nearby hill and sat on it staring up at the sky in consideration, and came down with a personal answer when they came down from the hill? Our brain likes things which are familiar and that we’re already favorable to. It will always prefer an answer or justification that allows it to continue the status quo. If you backed gay people before you got to college, you’ll probably find a justification that allows you to maintain the view, and not challenge the view. You’ll be inclined to be dismissive of counterarguments and naturally favorable to ones that are already on your side. Years later, you’ll think that you made a clear decision on the topic and that you were completely rational in how you arrived at your current place in life. And yet, there’s no reason to believe that you’re so different from a person who was raised 500 miles away in a red state, got similar grades in all their classes, and went to a college in Oklahoma. Somehow, that person will have come to the opposite viewpoint, through all the same processes as you, with all the same innate ability, and similarly come out thinking that he arrived there through full rationality and deep introspection. You would not see the geographic divide on views if logic was really the underlying factor. If you can see it on a map and it’s not a question of something like “Should the government give money to the rural folk or the city folk”, with a concrete and practical relevance to geographical considerations, then it’s tribalism, generational indoctrination, and propaganda and not anything else. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-blue-urban-america-see-in-the-democrats/851865/15 "2020-04-15T22:23:50Z")
Didn’t they prove that Pillowton Man was a hoax? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-blue-urban-america-see-in-the-democrats/851865/16 "2020-04-15T22:26:23Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > In the cities, for example, you’re told often and dogmatically that gay people are good, kindly people, who are being attacked for no reason, and who need to be supported. **In the rural areas, you’ll be told often and dogmatically that gay people are people who live in sin, mocking God, and act at the devil’s orders to try and corrupt youth and lead them away from God’s laws.** What if you’re a gay person in a rural area? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-blue-urban-america-see-in-the-democrats/851865/17 "2020-04-15T22:55:23Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > In the cities, for example, you’re told often and dogmatically that gay people are good, kindly people, who are being attacked for no reason, and who need to be supported. In the rural areas, you’ll be told often and dogmatically that gay people are people who live in sin, mocking God, and act at the devil’s orders to try and corrupt youth and lead them away from God’s laws. > > Functionally, neither of these viewpoints is objectively correct and, more importantly, very few people have taken either of these viewpoints on through conscious consideration of the merits or pros and cons. :dubious:While the first is not 100% correct, as I’m sure there are gay people who aren’t good or kindly as in any group, it’s a helluva lot closer to being objectively correct than the latter. A city dweller ends up meeting gay people, knowing they’re gay because they’re not hiding it, and knowing that gay Joe down the hall or lesbian Jane at work is a good neighbor or coworker. And city dwellers see churches that welcome LGBTQ congregants rather than railing against them from the pulpit, so they know that being anti-gay isn’t an inherent or essential part of Christianity. > [@](#): > > If you can see it on a map and it’s not a question of something like “ **Should the government give money to the rural folk or the city folk** ”, with a concrete and practical relevance to geographical considerations, then it’s tribalism, generational indoctrination, and propaganda and not anything else. :dubious: I’ve never known a candidate for public office from an urban area to run on “no money for farmers or rural areas” as part of their platform or campaign, and I would be very surprised if anyone could come up with an example of one,\* while there are candidates in rural areas who use anti-urban rhetoric in their campaigns, refusing to “bail out” urban public schools while taking state funds for their own schools, or insisting – completely contrary to the objectively correct 😛 state account books that the metropolitan counties generate more tax revenue than expenditures and the rural counties _vice versa_ – that their district or county would be better off if those metropolitan counties were split into its own state. Urban dwellers may make rude comments about rural dwellers, as they probably have been since there’s been cities, but at least IME they don’t ask/vote for a government that screws rural citizens. \*NOT just a frustrated “clinging to their guns and Bibles”-style remark, but “Vote for me and I’ll oppose state/federal funding for rural roads/rural counties/farmers.” ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-blue-urban-america-see-in-the-democrats/851865/18 "2020-04-15T23:04:28Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > What if you’re a gay person in a rural area? 1. I suspect that there are more gay people living straight lives in rural areas. 2. Claiming logic when one has a personal benefit isn’t strictly kosher from a philosophical standpoint. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-blue-urban-america-see-in-the-democrats/851865/19 "2020-04-15T23:06:58Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > :dubious:While the first is not 100% correct, as I’m sure there are gay people who aren’t good or kindly as in any group, it’s a helluva lot closer to being objectively correct than the latter. A city dweller ends up meeting gay people, knowing they’re gay because they’re not hiding it, and knowing that gay Joe down the hall or lesbian Jane at work is a good neighbor or coworker. Satan is a wily bugger, ain’t he. You’d hope that he’d make ‘em evil across the board, so it’s a easy choice. But nooooo, he gotta make his demons act all nice n’ friendly to lure you in. That’s when he gets ya. Prove me wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-blue-urban-america-see-in-the-democrats/851865/20 "2020-04-15T23:09:53Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > In both threads, there’s the underlying theory that people have reasons for doing things. > > If you grow up in Pillowton and the Pillowton Cowhawks are the pro baseball team and, as you’re growing up, everyone is telling you that you need to support the team, wear the team colors, go to the games, cheer for your guys, and push new and younger people into doing the same - well, that’s what you do. > > In the cities, for example, you’re told often and dogmatically that gay people are good, kindly people, who are being attacked for no reason, and who need to be supported. In the rural areas, you’ll be told often and dogmatically that gay people are people who live in sin, mocking God, and act at the devil’s orders to try and corrupt youth and lead them away from God’s laws. > > Functionally, neither of these viewpoints is objectively correct and, more importantly, very few people have taken either of these viewpoints on through conscious consideration of the merits or pros and cons. > > On this forum, perhaps, the average person might have a justification for their view. But even there, did you have the viewpoint _before_ or _after_ you found and understood the justification? Among the average middle schooler, what percentage of them do you think looked up a debate between a variety of philosophers on the subject and watched through to hear the different angles on the topic, went out to a nearby hill and sat on it staring up at the sky in consideration, and came down with a personal answer when they came down from the hill? > > Our brain likes things which are familiar and that we’re already favorable to. It will always prefer an answer or justification that allows it to continue the status quo. If you backed gay people before you got to college, you’ll probably find a justification that allows you to maintain the view, and not challenge the view. You’ll be inclined to be dismissive of counterarguments and naturally favorable to ones that are already on your side. Years later, you’ll think that you made a clear decision on the topic and that you were completely rational in how you arrived at your current place in life. > > And yet, there’s no reason to believe that you’re so different from a person who was raised 500 miles away in a red state, got similar grades in all their classes, and went to a college in Oklahoma. Somehow, that person will have come to the opposite viewpoint, through all the same processes as you, with all the same innate ability, and similarly come out thinking that he arrived there through full rationality and deep introspection. > > You would not see the geographic divide on views if logic was really the underlying factor. > > If you can see it on a map and it’s not a question of something like “Should the government give money to the rural folk or the city folk”, with a concrete and practical relevance to geographical considerations, then it’s tribalism, generational indoctrination, and propaganda and not anything else. Well, my experience is that if you are bright, questioning, talented, or sensitive, if you are a woman, or Jewish or Asian, or Middle Eastern, or a homosexual person who wants to be treated as an individual rather than as a despised or even hated lesser class, and you get born in a typical conservative area, you get out of there as soon as ever you can and head for a liberal city where you stand a chance. It isn’t tribalism when you are pre-kicked out of the tribe just for not fitting in. In cities people get to rub shoulders with others who are not just exactly like themselves. THAT is why they are “liberal”. Because they have experience with the scary other and have discovered the humanity that is in everyone. Conservatives, they really haven’t. They stay in their white white enclaves and build walls against the terror of the other. That’s why I am a Democrat. Although I am far to the left of most Democrats, it’s a big tent, and republicans are more like an armed camp than a tent at all. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-blue-urban-america-see-in-the-democrats/851865.md?page=2)