# What does democracy do post-trump? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 16, 2018, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-democracy-do-post-trump/819743 "2018-08-16T18:39:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-democracy-do-post-trump/819743/21 "2018-08-17T01:50:08Z")
I blame the primary system for throwing up the most extreme positions. Experienced pols, for all their faults, tend to be centrists. That’s certainly the way it used to be. In Canada, every candidate has to have his papers signed by the leader of the party whose label they are using. Of course, you can run instead as an independent. So far, we have avoided populism. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-democracy-do-post-trump/819743/22 "2018-08-17T02:54:45Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > A basic civics/poli-sci test to vote or forget it. It’ll be easy. Like: “The US President controls the price of oil - True or False?” There would probably be numerous questions that would be biased or accused of being biased. Like, “Is man-made climate change real or false?” (it’s real, but many conservatives would claim it’s a ploy to disqualify GOP voters) Or “How many genders are there? Two or more-than-two?” ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-democracy-do-post-trump/819743/23 "2018-08-17T02:58:24Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Direct election of the President (eliminate the Electoral College). Although Hillary won the popular vote, she did so by only 2%. It’s not at all far-fetched to think that another Trump-like politician, or unusual candidate, could capture an outright majority in a future election. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-democracy-do-post-trump/819743/24 "2018-08-17T03:13:42Z")
The easiest change that can be made is simple: Have the Republican Party change their nomination process. The change they made to avoid another long Romney vs not-Romney battle allowed Trump to steamroll and pick up enough delegates. And, this change can be made without the constitution nor any state laws. Democrats need to think long and hard before reducing the role of superdelegates as well. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-democracy-do-post-trump/819743/25 "2018-08-17T03:19:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > We need to change peoples’ minds. If the people aren’t behind such reforms, they’ll be impossible to put in place. And if they are, the reforms are unnecessary. I agree. No law is going to keep us from elected an incompetent. We need to take that responsibility upon ourselves. If we can’t handle it, then it’s time to abandon democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-democracy-do-post-trump/819743/26 "2018-08-17T03:23:38Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Although Hillary won the popular vote, she did so by only 2%. It’s not at all far-fetched to think that another Trump-like politician, or unusual candidate, could capture an outright majority in a future election. Yes, it’s possible. But the Electoral College system has given us George W. Bush and Donald Trump. For that matter, Rutherford Hayes was no prize either. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-democracy-do-post-trump/819743/27 "2018-08-17T03:56:42Z")
Removing lead from the environment so people have higher cognitive abilities is important. Mandate that any politician be able to pass the same medical, financial and background checks needed to become a military officer or FBI agent. Penalize dishonest propaganda (I’m not sure how). Find ways to reduce authoritarianism among the general public (again, how?) Find ways to reduce bigotry and racism among the general public (how?) Really the only thing holding us together is an independent judiciary. Without that, we would probably be more like Poland right now. Maintaining an independent judiciary is important. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-democracy-do-post-trump/819743/28 "2018-08-17T04:18:41Z")
I think in order to just not feel humiliated by his election we have to take some measures. The vacuum created by letting this go will be filled with bad. The tax return The helsinki appearance The demand to see putin alone repeatedly (!?!?) the nazi eqiivocation The lying the inauguration committee the family business The electoral college Plus: The garland affair Just a few of the utterly unacceptable behaviors that each need to be called out in a legal, quasi legal, or community forum until we are not subject to them any longer. That is tyranny surely if anything is. All of these things need to be addressed or we don’t have a government. They are all different level problems but we have to be comfortable using the impeachment power. We need to look at some of the “norms” we are mourning right now and think about making policy instead. We are being hacked by anti democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-democracy-do-post-trump/819743/29 "2018-08-17T04:22:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I suggest you read Jon Meacham’s latest book: [The Soul of America: The Battle for Our Better Angels](https://www.amazon.com/Soul-America-Battle-Better-Angels-ebook/dp/B079KV32KF/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1534458580&sr=8-2&keywords=the+soul+of+america+by+jon+meacham). > > Listen to an actual presidential historian instead of the loud-mouths on cable news channels. It is because of my habit of watching loud-mouths on cable news channels that I even know who Jon Meacham is. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-democracy-do-post-trump/819743/30 "2018-08-17T04:34:37Z")
Stop trying to be a democracy, and go back to being a republic. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-democracy-do-post-trump/819743/31 "2018-08-17T04:35:37Z")
We also have a fox news problem. It doesn’t look like they are going to go down quietly or rationally. They are the largest example of psychopathy in human history. This is a now a public danger. The lying has become dangerous all around but especially in the circuit between hannity and drumpf. Lying in public needs to be shamed without cease. There should be no time for other coverage of distractions. The only story is the lie and that they lie, that they always lie, and what is the truth and how long before they are in jail. The fox shows have no content anymore. They are just a repetition of some old points so if donald is watching he can get his jollies. Pathetic. The “Opposite” network MSNBC meanwhile tries to keep up with some stories, like, in the world. Truth is up against lies right in the public square, and some people want to see it all burn. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-democracy-do-post-trump/819743/32 "2018-08-17T08:02:59Z")
Trump is Conan and you are all his defeated enemies. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-democracy-do-post-trump/819743/33 "2018-08-17T08:18:03Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > I think in order to just not feel humiliated by his election we have to take some measures. The vacuum created by letting this go will be filled with bad. > > The tax return > > The helsinki appearance > > The demand to see putin alone repeatedly (!?!?) > > the nazi eqiivocation > > The lying > > the inauguration committee > > the family business > > The electoral college > > Plus: > The garland affair > > Just a few of the utterly unacceptable behaviors that each need to be called out in a legal, quasi legal, or community forum until we are not subject to them any longer. That is tyranny surely if anything is. > > All of these things need to be addressed or we don’t have a government. They are all different level problems but we have to be comfortable using the impeachment power. > > We need to look at some of the “norms” we are mourning right now and think about making policy instead. We are being hacked by anti democracy. > [@drad\_dog](#): > > We also have a fox news problem. It doesn’t look like they are going to go down quietly or rationally. They are the largest example of psychopathy in human history. This is a now a public danger. > > The lying has become dangerous all around but especially in the circuit between hannity and drumpf. > > Lying in public needs to be shamed without cease. There should be no time for other coverage of distractions. The only story is the lie and that they lie, that they always lie, and what is the truth and how long before they are in jail. > > The fox shows have no content anymore. They are just a repetition of some old points so if donald is watching he can get his jollies. Pathetic. The “Opposite” network MSNBC meanwhile tries to keep up with some stories, like, in the world. Truth is up against lies right in the public square, and some people want to see it all burn. Fox News is the “largest example of psychopathy in human history”? I’m not certain that’s true. And “drumpf”? Lol. What’s needed is what we got. Think about it. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-democracy-do-post-trump/819743/34 "2018-08-17T08:47:47Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > We also have a fox news problem. It doesn’t look like they are going to go down quietly or rationally. They are the largest example of psychopathy in human history. This is a now a public danger. > > The lying has become dangerous all around but especially in the circuit between hannity and drumpf. > > Lying in public needs to be shamed without cease. There should be no time for other coverage of distractions. The only story is the lie and that they lie, that they always lie, and what is the truth and how long before they are in jail. > > The fox shows have no content anymore. They are just a repetition of some old points so if donald is watching he can get his jollies. Pathetic. The “Opposite” network MSNBC meanwhile tries to keep up with some stories, like, in the world. Truth is up against lies right in the public square, and some people want to see it all burn. It’s also how they “avoid” it to be a lie. Like “accidentally” putting a (D) in front of a name. Or semantics like “that transgender”. It slips in enough like boobs in a car ad. Just enough to distract the viewer. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-democracy-do-post-trump/819743/35 "2018-08-17T08:51:30Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > There would probably be numerous questions that would be biased or accused of being biased. Like, “Is man-made climate change real or false?” (it’s real, but many conservatives would claim it’s a ploy to disqualify GOP voters) > > Or “How many genders are there? Two or more-than-two?” I’m not trying to discriminate against GOP voters, I’m just trying to get them eduma-cated for once. Those questions are not debatable. The GOP voters would want questions like, “Is the Bible the true meaning of the constitution?” or “Trump never told a lie.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-democracy-do-post-trump/819743/36 "2018-08-17T09:30:38Z")
I think certain things that were norms could very easily become laws. Disclosing your tax returns and putting your assets in a blind trust - these are things that _should_ be laws, as Trump has shown quite convincingly. There’s just no reason we shouldn’t have access to that information from presidential candidates, and there’s just no reason why a presidential candidate should have assets that might color their policies, compared to the potential damage this could cause. Could you convince people to pass those laws? Well, attempts to bring these laws before congress were stopped. I’m not sure why, unless for some reason Mitch McConnell is a craven dishonest shitweasel with no interest in the integrity of - BAHAHAHA I can’t finish this sentence with a straight face ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-democracy-do-post-trump/819743/37 "2018-08-17T10:30:58Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > I’m not trying to discriminate against GOP voters, I’m just trying to get them eduma-cated for once. Presumably this is being educated the One True Democrat Way? And as long as you equate being uneducated with being unintelligent you will be on the back foot. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-democracy-do-post-trump/819743/38 "2018-08-17T11:44:23Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If you want those things, you need a two-thirds majority in both the House and the Senate, or a convention called by two-thirds of the state legislatures. So identify, clearly, what you want and start building those majorities. > > Regards, > Shodan “My car has a habit of veering off the road suddenly, crashing and bursting into flames. All I need to do is to drive it 100 miles to the mechanic to get it fixed.” There is an unfortunate flaw in the approach there. > [@octopus](#): > > Fox News is the “largest example of psychopathy in human history”? I’m not certain that’s true. And “drumpf”? Lol. > > What’s needed is what we got. Think about it. The psychopathy of FoxNews aside, there’s no reason to assume that “what’s needed is what we got”. At best one could say that “what we thought we wanted is what we got” or possibly even “what we were told we needed is what we got, even though it was actually something we not only didn’t need but actually needed not to have”. Think about it. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-democracy-do-post-trump/819743/39 "2018-08-17T11:45:31Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Presumably this is being educated the One True Democrat Way? And as long as you equate being uneducated with being unintelligent you will be on the back foot. So you’re saying that GOP voters are unintelligent? ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-democracy-do-post-trump/819743/40 "2018-08-17T13:28:38Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Quite the reverse, actually: it no longer values those without - or with lesser - education. It equates a lack of education with a lack on intelligence. Both Trump and Brexit are reactions to this. The elites look down and proclaim, and the proles say, “Fuck that, you lying arseholes!” This is highly dependent on which side of the mirror you’re talking about. A general Yes to your observations on leets & proles, but I would put it to you that the US is predominantly proletariat. Only 30% of us have a 4 year degree, and the majority of those come from institutions oriented more toward delivering a diploma than to actually educating anyone–teaching them how to think through a problem vs. teaching answers. Each side has become impatient with the other. The educated science-y and thinker-y types, with motives ranging from nefarious to philanthropic, manipulate the others to move toward whichever endgame suits their view of the future; the uneducated tend to follow whichever camp offends them the least, although neither direction has _their_ personal interests in mind. My position is that not everyone needs a quality bachelor’s degree, but they do need a solid understanding of their own history, of their place with respect to the rest of the world, and of how to really listen to what they’re being told and how to fact check that. As it is our educational system is designed to stamp kids into greasy little cogs for the capitalist machinery, and not to turn them into productive free thinkers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-democracy-do-post-trump/819743.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-democracy-do-post-trump/819743.md?page=3)