# What does democracy do post-trump? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 16, 2018, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-democracy-do-post-trump/819743 "2018-08-16T18:39:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2018, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-democracy-do-post-trump/819743/101 "2018-08-25T18:45:30Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I see no evidence in your cite that any president met Putin without notetakers or other aides in addition to the translator. Please quote the part that says any president met privately with Putin. Please cite any transcript of those meetings. If you can’t, it’s effectively private, not a matter of public record. If your criteria for private is, “nobody else in the room”, then Trump’s meeting with Putin was not private. Anyhoo, [this article](https://www.cnn.com/2015/09/28/politics/obama-putin-meeting-syria-ukraine/index.html) explicity describes Obama’s meeting with Putin as “private”. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2018, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-democracy-do-post-trump/819743/102 "2018-08-25T19:02:32Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > [Trump Received a Mysterious Letter From Putin As a Gift in 2013](https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-2013-letter-from-putin-2018-3) > > This is from your source too. > > Do you understand that there are not actually many “other means” to communicate securely in the criminal world? Ask Gen Flynn about it. Yeah, so? There’s a “secret letter”. Big deal. Unless it’s been destroyed, which we don’t know, that’s literally a paper trail. Yeah, real secure. There’s a LOT of “secret papers” that nobody knows about. And, as was proven with Omarosa, even “private conversations” can be taped in some of the most ostensibly secure locations in the world. One on ones are far from guaranteed secure. Flynn got caught because Flynn was stupid. And he wasn’t charged on what he said, he was charged for lying about it. If you don’t think there is a shit ton of things going on that virtually nobody knows about, going on basically forever, you’re delusional. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-democracy-do-post-trump/819743/103 "2018-08-25T20:18:14Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > Anyhoo, [this article](https://www.cnn.com/2015/09/28/politics/obama-putin-meeting-syria-ukraine/index.html) explicity describes Obama’s meeting with Putin as “private”. [This article about a November 2015 meeting](https://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/15/politics/obama-putin-g20-meeting/index.html) has a photo with 4 people. Obama, Putin and two interpreters? Probably, but Putin’s English is quite good IIUC. Anyway, the talk was in “a corner of a crowded lounge” not in a private room. Or were you referring to a different meeting? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-democracy-do-post-trump/819743/104 "2018-08-25T20:44:53Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > [This article about a November 2015 meeting](https://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/15/politics/obama-putin-g20-meeting/index.html) has a photo with 4 people. Obama, Putin and two interpreters? Probably, but Putin’s English is quite good IIUC. Anyway, the talk was in “a corner of a crowded lounge” not in a private room. > > Or were you referring to a different meeting? From **Ashtura’s** link: > [@](#): > > September 29, 2015 > > The two presidents huddled in a second floor conference room at United Nations headquarters for roughly 90 minutes… From your link: > [@](#): > > November 16, 2015 > > Antalya, Turkey (CNN)It is a curious thing, at a summit as big as the G-20, to see world leaders just mingling together in their downtime between sessions. Different meetings. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-democracy-do-post-trump/819743/105 "2018-08-25T20:44:58Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > Yeah, so? There’s a “secret letter”. Big deal. Unless it’s been destroyed, which we don’t know, that’s literally a paper trail. Yeah, real secure. There’s a LOT of “secret papers” that nobody knows about. And, as was proven with Omarosa, even “private conversations” can be taped in some of the most ostensibly secure locations in the world. One on ones are far from guaranteed secure. > > Flynn got caught because Flynn was stupid. And he wasn’t charged on what he said, he was charged for lying about it. If you don’t think there is a shit ton of things going on that virtually nobody knows about, going on basically forever, you’re delusional. Paper trail!? It was an important secret between donald and putin. That’s all we know. The reason we know so little is that…it was a secret message conveyed by a secure method. If it wasn’t a big deal, we would know more about it. But we don’t. Furthermore and to the point: Other attempts to find secure ways to communicate with russia outside of US diplomacy is a theme for this administration. What a coincidence! It’s not easy. Diplomatic pouch is very secure. No one was else was going to read that under any circumstance. In our current environment this is bad. So where have you been? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2018, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-democracy-do-post-trump/819743/106 "2018-08-25T20:45:56Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > [This article about a November 2015 meeting](https://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/15/politics/obama-putin-g20-meeting/index.html) has a photo with 4 people. Obama, Putin and two interpreters? Probably, but Putin’s English is quite good IIUC. Anyway, the talk was in “a corner of a crowded lounge” not in a private room. > > Or were you referring to a different meeting? OK, there was a private meeting in New York about 6 weeks before that meeting in Turkey. But I can’t find a source showing _exactly_ how private it was. (News articles do have detailed quotes from unnamed “officials” suggesting that detailed transcripts or aide-mémoires were available.) ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2018, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-democracy-do-post-trump/819743/107 "2018-08-25T20:56:30Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > Please cite any transcript of those meetings. If you can’t, it’s effectively private, not a matter of public record. > > If your criteria for private is, “nobody else in the room”, then Trump’s meeting with Putin was not private. > > Anyhoo, [this article](https://www.cnn.com/2015/09/28/politics/obama-putin-meeting-syria-ukraine/index.html) explicity describes Obama’s meeting with Putin as “private”. Obama was an experienced politician before taking office in 2008. He also had legal experience. By 2015 he was an incumbent president with 7 years experience. If this doesn’t matter, in how prepared he was to speak for the US, and protect our interests then what kind of conversation can be had about it by going even further into it? OK let’s go. He is not a frequent liar. He has never equivocated on nazis. He hasn’t brown nosed the russian president in varied venues and media in a way that is humiliating for US citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-democracy-do-post-trump/819743/108 "2018-08-26T02:23:20Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > OK, there was a private meeting in New York about 6 weeks before that meeting in Turkey. But I can’t find a source showing _exactly_ how private it was. (News articles do have detailed quotes from unnamed “officials” suggesting that detailed transcripts or aide-mémoires were available.) “How private”? Do you have the transcripts for either? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-democracy-do-post-trump/819743.md?page=5)