# What does English sound like--REALLY--to foreigners? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 14, 2010, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-english-sound-like-really-to-foreigners/539463 "2010-05-14T19:37:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-english-sound-like-really-to-foreigners/539463/21 "2010-05-15T01:17:57Z")
I asked my wife this while English was still a relatively unpleasant experience for her. She said that to her Brazilian-Portuguese-tuned ears it sounded _choppy_. Lots of breaks between words, in contrast to the more melodic flow of her native language. I have long felt that our English _rhythm_ is a challenge for new speakers to adopt. For lack of a better term, I have always imagined English as having an [iambic](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iamb#Accentual-syllabic_use) rhythm (da DA da Da da Da da Da da Da…) Now **bordelond** has provided me with better terms for this as well as proper cites. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-english-sound-like-really-to-foreigners/539463/22 "2010-05-15T01:18:05Z")
> [@lexi](#): > > The best example I had ever seem was posted by someone else here a while back > [Gibberish rock song written by Italian composer to sound like English - Boing Boing](http://boingboing.net/2009/12/17/gibberish-rock-song.html) > > Enjoy! God, Adriano Celentano looks so much like Nicholas Cage. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-english-sound-like-really-to-foreigners/539463/23 "2010-05-15T06:09:13Z")
> [@GameHat](#): > > ROFL, that vid is great! > > And as a native speaker of English, yeah, it does sound like English. Gibberish English, but the sound is right. Amazingly like English, actually. The best description I can offer is that it sounds like something from Motown that I’ve never heard, played too softly to make out the words…only loud. It’s weirdly impressive, as well as being hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-english-sound-like-really-to-foreigners/539463/24 "2010-05-15T06:21:52Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > That’s not true – there ARE distinct things that can stand out. ? That has nothing to do with what I said. If I’m standing here and my friend Bob is standing just East of me, by knowing that he’s East, I know that I’m comparatively Westward from Bob’s standpoint. If I know that Sally is West of me, then I’m comparatively Eastward from Sally’s standpoint. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-english-sound-like-really-to-foreigners/539463/25 "2010-05-15T06:22:35Z")
> [@minor7flat5](#): > > I have long felt that our English _rhythm_ is a challenge for new speakers to adopt. For lack of a better term, I have always imagined English as having an [iambic](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iamb#Accentual-syllabic_use) rhythm (da DA da Da da Da da Da da Da…) And it is one of the things which do vary between dialects: many native English speakers will “stop to breathe” in the middle of a word (actually, right before a stressed syllable), but it’s very common in British English and Australian English, not so much in American dialects, and then you get the Jamaicans who just seem to turn every sentence into a single word (not everybody, and yes I’m conscious that people from the Isle of Skye don’t speak like Mancunians). This is something I understood when I heard about how English poetry metrics work: yes, you’re iambic. In Spanish, Italian or French, verses are measured in terms of total syllables; in English, in terms of stressed syllables. Y’all use iambic pentameter, we use versos endecasílabos. An English speaker might pronounce that last word as “endecah (breathe in) SEElahbos”, a Spanish or Italian speaker wouldn’t even “come up for air” in the middle of esternocleidomastoideo. Some dialects sound like there is one or maybe two vowels, too, and they’re strange ones (“was that an a or an e?” “eeeh, neither” “what do you mean, neither?” “English vowels are different, they’ve got more” “argh!” “yeah… :(”). ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-english-sound-like-really-to-foreigners/539463/26 "2010-05-15T15:17:29Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > To an English-speaking listener, a Spanish speaker is uttering an unusually long and unbroken stream of consecutive “stressed” syllables. That’s exactly right, and now I know why! Thanks! > [@lexi](#): > > [Gibberish rock song written by Italian composer to sound like English - Boing Boing](http://boingboing.net/2009/12/17/gibberish-rock-song.html) Interesting! I hear iambic stressed syllables and long vowels. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-english-sound-like-really-to-foreigners/539463/27 "2010-05-15T16:06:25Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Misha misha misha. Why are you calling my cat? What’s he got to do with the OP? ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-english-sound-like-really-to-foreigners/539463/28 "2010-05-15T17:28:03Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Some dialects sound like there is one or maybe two vowels, too, and they’re strange ones (“was that an a or an e?” “eeeh, neither” “what do you mean, neither?” “English vowels are different, they’ve got more” “argh!” “yeah… :(”). The most distinctive thing is that English has _ **so many** _ vowels, and in particular lax vowels which are not so prolific in most European languages. Also, what many languages produce as “pure” diphthongs, SAE issues like a single sound. Those dialects of English, however, (such as Southern US), will often stretch them out and “accentuate” the upper and lower production areas in the mouth. What that Italian guy is doing to sound like English most of all, I think, is to emphasize the lax vowels on top of the stress-timed nature of the language. I think, in fact, that that has a lot to do with the distinctive sound to the vocals in English-language pop music. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-english-sound-like-really-to-foreigners/539463/29 "2010-05-15T18:33:53Z")
Are you sure English vowels are actually lax? I thought it was the 5 vowel languages (like Spanish, I think) where you could get away with pronouncing a single vowel in different ways and still get your meaning across. Is Serbo-Croat a 5 vowel language? I once had a discussion with a Croat who just could not hear the difference between ‘pin’ and ‘pen’. I’m Scottish and I might say those words very differently from someone from Louisiana or New Zealand, but I think we’d all be able to tell one from another in each other’s dialect. My point is that subtle differences in pronunciation of vowels in English, which may not be audible to many learners, make for big differences in meaning. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-english-sound-like-really-to-foreigners/539463/30 "2010-05-15T19:09:19Z")
> [@Scheidt-Hoch](#): > > Are you sure English vowels are actually lax? I thought it was the 5 vowel languages (like Spanish, I think) where you could get away with pronouncing a single vowel in different ways and still get your meaning across. Is Serbo-Croat a 5 vowel language? I once had a discussion with a Croat who just could not hear the difference between ‘pin’ and ‘pen’. I’m Scottish and I might say those words very differently from someone from Louisiana or New Zealand, but I think we’d all be able to tell one from another in each other’s dialect. > > My point is that subtle differences in pronunciation of vowels in English, which may not be audible to many learners, make for big differences in meaning. If the pronunciation is different, it’s a different vowel, but I’m not talking about phonemes. And that’s in large part why you understand the folks in Louisiana. Yes, many English phonemes are lax. That’s exactly one of the problems facing your Croat friend. (Perhaps being Scottish you might not perceive it, though–and context will inform comprehension anyway.) ---
**Author:** ![Negative\_Lite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Negative\_Lite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Negative_Lite)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-english-sound-like-really-to-foreigners/539463/31 "2010-05-15T19:32:36Z")
My Spanish wife says English sounds “nice, nicer than my own language sounds to me. Musical, because before I ever understood English I related it to the songs I heard and liked.” ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-english-sound-like-really-to-foreigners/539463/32 "2010-05-15T19:42:09Z")
> [@Cyningablod](#): > > … For example, to me, Russian sounds dark and harsh, yet at the same time, velvety and melodious. German to me sounds terse, brusque, and biting, but also rather sing-songy. … am i the only one who don’t understand how something can at once be harsh yet melodious, terse yet sing-songy? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-english-sound-like-really-to-foreigners/539463/33 "2010-05-15T19:48:55Z")
Guizot, I think you misunderstand me. As native English speakers we are used to distinguishing a large number (up to 20 perhaps?) of subtly different vowels. That is why we can easily hear the difference between ‘pin’ and ‘pen’ in a variety of English dialects, even if one person’s ‘pin’ actually sounds closer to your own ‘pen’; their ‘pen’ will still be distinguishable. Whereas a non native speaker might not be able to distinguish any of these pairs. Perhaps what I’m having difficulty with is the use of the word ‘lax’ - is this a technical usage? Like I say, it implies to me that you can get away with pronouncing a vowel in a number of ways and still be understood within your own dialect; I do not believe this is the case in English. If anything it’s the opposite; if I say to someone “put the pin by the peg and put the pen by the pig” I will be understood 98% of the time by someone from the same area as me, but a non native speaker might not be able distinguish any of the 4 crucial vowels. That suggests to me that I am in fact being very precise, not lax, in my pronunciation. I don’t think being Scottish makes any difference, all native English speakers have an accent - like I say we might not understand what another native speaker means but we can still distinguish similar sounding words. Or are you using ‘lax’ to describe the wide range of ways of pronouncing the same word across the various dialects and accents of English? ---
**Author:** ![asian\_riff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecccb3/32.png) [@asian\_riff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asian_riff)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-english-sound-like-really-to-foreigners/539463/34 "2010-05-15T20:00:10Z")
> [@Scheidt-Hoch](#): > > Are you sure English vowels are actually lax? I thought it was the 5 vowel languages (like Spanish, I think) where you could get away with pronouncing a single vowel in different ways and still get your meaning across. Is Serbo-Croat a 5 vowel language? I once had a discussion with a Croat who just could not hear the difference between ‘pin’ and ‘pen’. I’m Scottish and I might say those words very differently from someone from Louisiana or New Zealand, but I think we’d all be able to tell one from another in each other’s dialect. > > My point is that subtle differences in pronunciation of vowels in English, which may not be audible to many learners, make for big differences in meaning. That reminds me of when I was in Japan, and there was a Japanese word that had what would be close to our “e” sound, but the people there didn’t seem to pronounce it consistently (I forget what the word was now). I asked my Japanese friend whether it was supposed to be an “ay” sound (as in ‘mane’) or an “eh” sound (as in ‘men’). She said, “I don’t hear any difference”. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-english-sound-like-really-to-foreigners/539463/35 "2010-05-15T20:03:45Z")
> [@asian\_riff](#): > > That reminds me of when I was in Japan, and there was a Japanese word that had what would be close to our “e” sound, but the people there didn’t seem to pronounce it consistently (I forget what the word was now). I asked my Japanese friend whether it was supposed to be an “ay” sound (as in ‘mane’) or an “eh” sound (as in ‘men’). She said, “I don’t hear any difference”. Indeed; correct me if I’m wrong, but I think Japanese is a 5 vowel language. ---
**Author:** ![asian\_riff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecccb3/32.png) [@asian\_riff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asian_riff)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-english-sound-like-really-to-foreigners/539463/36 "2010-05-15T20:19:09Z")
> [@Scheidt-Hoch](#): > > Indeed; correct me if I’m wrong, but I think Japanese is a 5 vowel language. I’m pretty sure that’s right. They actually don’t have vowels at all; they have phonemes. We interpret the phonemes as a consonant followed by a vowel, but it’s a single sound to them. It was my experience that Japanese-speakers were unable to pronounce English words that ended with a consonant, without adding an extra vowel sound to the end of the word. In fact, many didn’t even seem to _hear_ the consonant without a vowel following it. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-english-sound-like-really-to-foreigners/539463/37 "2010-05-15T20:29:02Z")
> [@lexi](#): > > The best example I had ever seem was posted by someone else here a while back > [Gibberish rock song written by Italian composer to sound like English - Boing Boing](http://boingboing.net/2009/12/17/gibberish-rock-song.html) > > Enjoy! First, that does sound like English! Second, after listening to all the versions of this “translated” I’m sure I will have this stuck in my head all weekend. ---
**Author:** ![Noel\_Prosequi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b19c9b/32.png) [@Noel\_Prosequi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noel_Prosequi)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-english-sound-like-really-to-foreigners/539463/38 "2010-05-15T21:45:53Z")
On the English vowel thing, I remember trying to teach some Chinese neighbours to hear the difference among Mary, merry and marry. No matter how much I tried, they couldn’t hear the difference at all. And a Portuguese friend to whom I once posed the question in the OP said English sounded like it was spoken with a “fat tongue”- I guess it’s all the th sounds - this, thing, think, that, thought, the, thorough - were what he was picking up on. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-english-sound-like-really-to-foreigners/539463/39 "2010-05-15T22:03:54Z")
> [@Scheidt-Hoch](#): > > Guizot, I think you misunderstand me. As native English speakers we are used to distinguishing a large number (up to 20 perhaps?) of subtly different vowels. That is why we can easily hear the difference between ‘pin’ and ‘pen’ in a variety of English dialects, even if one person’s ‘pin’ actually sounds closer to your own ‘pen’; their ‘pen’ will still be distinguishable. Whereas a non native speaker might not be able to distinguish any of these pairs. > > Perhaps what I’m having difficulty with is the use of the word ‘lax’ - is this a technical usage? Like I say, it implies to me that you can get away with pronouncing a vowel in a number of ways and still be understood within your own dialect; I do not believe this is the case in English. If anything it’s the opposite; if I say to someone “put the pin by the peg and put the pen by the pig” I will be understood 98% of the time by someone from the same area as me, but a non native speaker might not be able distinguish any of the 4 crucial vowels. That suggests to me that I am in fact being very precise, not lax, in my pronunciation. I don’t think being Scottish makes any difference, all native English speakers have an accent - like I say we might not understand what another native speaker means but we can still distinguish similar sounding words. > > Or are you using ‘lax’ to describe the wide range of ways of pronouncing the same word across the various dialects and accents of English? To me, what’s “lax” about our vowels is that we let them vary a lot. Sure, when it’s crucial to understanding, we’ll keep the vowel sounds more exact, but not always. And I think you are thinking about the wrong words. The most lax sounds are in unaccented syllables. We convert a lot of vowels into this lax, indescript sound called a schwa. We have to accent a syllable to clarify the vowel being used. And the reason why Scottish is different is that the accent seems to actually distinguish between the vowel. A common example is that ir, er, ur, or, and ar all sound different in Scottish, but the same in most other varieties of English. ---
**Author:** ![asian\_riff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecccb3/32.png) [@asian\_riff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asian_riff)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-english-sound-like-really-to-foreigners/539463/40 "2010-05-15T22:37:09Z")
> [@Noel\_Prosequi](#): > > On the English vowel thing, I remember trying to teach some Chinese neighbours to hear the difference among Mary, merry and marry. No matter how much I tried, they couldn’t hear the difference at all. Not sure if this is a joke. In California, those 3 words are pronounced identically. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-english-sound-like-really-to-foreigners/539463.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-english-sound-like-really-to-foreigners/539463.md?page=3)