# What does exponential population growth mean for reincarnation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 19, 2002, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-exponential-population-growth-mean-for-reincarnation/109861 "2002-05-19T22:06:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2002, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-exponential-population-growth-mean-for-reincarnation/109861/1 "2002-05-19T22:06:45Z")
As I understand it, reincarnation means that if you are not nice, you will be demoted to insect, oxen, protist, or lawyer in your next life. So, why do we have more people than ever? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2002, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-exponential-population-growth-mean-for-reincarnation/109861/2 "2002-05-19T22:11:58Z")
That there’s an awful lot of chickens, rodents, and wart hogs living good and righteous animal lives that are getting promoted. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2002, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-exponential-population-growth-mean-for-reincarnation/109861/3 "2002-05-19T22:12:26Z")
Lots of virtuous insects? ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2002, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-exponential-population-growth-mean-for-reincarnation/109861/4 "2002-05-19T22:14:24Z")
Damn you, Colibri. And you’d probably _enjoy_ being reincarnated as a “lower” lifeform. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2002, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-exponential-population-growth-mean-for-reincarnation/109861/5 "2002-05-19T23:18:24Z")
Why do you assume that souls are a finite resource? If they aren’t, then there’s no problem. Or perhaps reincarnations don’t happen in chronological order–after everyone dies, there are plenty of souls to go around in earlier lives. And it’s even conceivable that reincarnations happen across the void of space, so our race is prospering at the expense of some alien species (Minbari, anyone?). ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2002, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-exponential-population-growth-mean-for-reincarnation/109861/6 "2002-05-20T00:16:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by robertliguori \* > \*\* So, why do we have more people than ever? \*\* Well-behaved worms and rats got rewarded by being reincarnated as people. I think I know some of them… ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2002, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-exponential-population-growth-mean-for-reincarnation/109861/7 "2002-05-20T00:23:36Z")
Tibetan buddhists also believe that it does occur that one person can incarnate into several new lives. The flick The Little Buddha has an example of the abbot reincarnating into 3 different children. ---
**Author:** ![AndrewL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@AndrewL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndrewL)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2002, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-exponential-population-growth-mean-for-reincarnation/109861/8 "2002-05-20T00:28:32Z")
There is only one soul. It travels forwards and backwards in time, eventually being reincarnated as everyone who has ever existed. So be nice to people you meet, because sooner or later you will be them. No, I don’t believe that. Actually, I don’t believe in reincarnation at all. But it’s the best explanantion I’ve heard for this problem. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2002, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-exponential-population-growth-mean-for-reincarnation/109861/9 "2002-05-20T01:45:50Z")
In Buddhist cosmology, there is the realm of humans, non-human animals, heaven, hell, “ambitious gods” or “titans” and yearning ghosts. And that is ignoring other worlds. So there is ample scope for adjustments in the relative populations of each realm. (Besides, humans make up a tiny fraction of all earthly biomass.) For completeness, I will note that it is only possible (or at least likely) to enter Nirvana from the Human realm (again, setting other worlds aside). ---
**Author:** ![Hamish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Hamish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamish)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-exponential-population-growth-mean-for-reincarnation/109861/10 "2002-05-21T16:20:02Z")
I think this is the second time I’ve seen this question in Great Debates. As last time, I’ll just say that I suspect reincarnation doesn’t involve individual souls, that survive _incorporate_ from lifetime to lifetime. More that we return to a sort of “pool” of souls, and the birth of any living thing, from a blade of grass to a human being, splinters off a part of that pool. In other words, a part of what’s now your consciousnes could belong to another person, another to a bird, another to a tree. And some could stay, for a very long time. This is how I interpret the concepts of “Goddess” and of “Summerland” in my faith. My views should not be held as representative of Wiccans in general 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![dal\_timgar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@dal\_timgar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dal_timgar)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-exponential-population-growth-mean-for-reincarnation/109861/11 "2002-05-22T00:18:43Z")
reincarnation == human beings return as human beings only. presumably men as men and women as women transmigration == human beings return as something other than human beings souls hang out in SHEOL when not incarnated. some hold that lots of people are hea now to cleanse themselves of bad karma and the crap is about to hit the fan on this planet. of course this is probably a lot of occult bullsh!t. but the bible code and chernobyl meaning wormwood from revelations certainly makes things curious. Dal Timgar ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-exponential-population-growth-mean-for-reincarnation/109861/12 "2002-05-22T15:38:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MEBuckner \* > \*\*Damn you, Colibri. And you’d probably _enjoy_ being reincarnated as a “lower” lifeform. \*\* Being a bonobo seems like it would be a lot of fun. I’m trying to behave just badly enough to go one rung down on the ladder. More likely I’ll overshoot and end up as a banana slug. But since they are hermaphroditic and have penises almost as long as their own bodies, that could be interesting too. ---
**Author:** ![Philosophocles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Philosophocles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philosophocles)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-exponential-population-growth-mean-for-reincarnation/109861/13 "2002-05-22T21:29:33Z")
I have the same birthday as Shirley MacLaine, but considering all the lives she’s lived, doesn’t everybody? It’s interesting how so many of the people with past lives were royalty, great philosophers, conquerors, famous prophets, and inventors. Relatively few past lives consisted of people cleaning dung from swine pens or begging for food. Also, we don’t hear many people claiming to have been Hitler or some deranged serial killer in a past life, unless perhaps in this life they’re a neo-Nazi or someone fascinated with serial killers. ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-exponential-population-growth-mean-for-reincarnation/109861/14 "2002-05-22T22:32:47Z")
## There are WILDLY differing numbers on how many people have EVER lived – but just with the numbers we are pretty sure of, there were more people alive in the past & dead (freeing their souls to be reincarnated) than there are today – or likely to be alive at one time in the future … probably by several factors. **BORING PROOF** Since world population is 6 billion today: we can guess reasonably assuredly that that the World had circa 300 million people from 1 AD to circa 1000 AD. \*If we figure the population lived to 75 and turned over completely every 75 years, then (using this ultra-conservative method that VASTLY underestimates population) that means at least 3.6 billion people lived during that particular 1,000 year period. \* I realize the italicized numbers are way off they just are just meant to illustrate conservatively (since life expectancy was so low for so many) and simply/easily that there are enough souls to go around. Since roughly 1750 world population has been 1 billion people (link). If the population were now COMPLETELY turned over every 85 years, by the time we hit 2 billion in the 1950’s that means that about 2 billion more people lived during that small period. (1 billion 1750 to 1835, 1 billion 1835 to 1910). So for our 6 billion souls alive today, we can be sure at least 5.6 people lived just during the periods from 1 to 1000 and from 1750 to 1910. ## How many souls lived from, say circa 150,000 BCE to 1 AD.? (Or 1000 to 1750 for that matter) Billions certainly. And probably tens of billions. In short, if reincarnation is “true” we aren’t running out of souls - every soul could probably have lived, as a human, at least two or three times from the start of mankind until 2040 if there are worst case circa 11 billion people. As long as we don’t have to say every human soul is in a human right now. [http://www.prb.org/Content/NavigationMenu/PRB/Educators/Child\_6\_Billion/Background/Default673.htm](http://www.prb.org/Content/NavigationMenu/PRB/Educators/Child_6_Billion/Background/Default673.htm) ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-exponential-population-growth-mean-for-reincarnation/109861/15 "2002-05-22T22:35:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jimmmy \* > \*\*we can guess reasonably assuredly that that the World had circa 300 million people from 1 AD to circa 1000 AD. Dumbass was trying to say the World had a CONSTANT pop. of 300 mil during those years. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2002, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-exponential-population-growth-mean-for-reincarnation/109861/16 "2002-05-23T00:35:34Z")
Jimmmy: my question was: Where are the extra people coming from? P.S. Your math was working on the faulty assumption that every one of those 5.6 billion people jumped to this era upon death. ---
**Author:** ![mipsman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mipsman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mipsman)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2002, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-exponential-population-growth-mean-for-reincarnation/109861/17 "2002-05-23T14:15:14Z")
I am an avid fan of reincarnation as a fair and just mechanism for the Deity to keep track of who has been good and bad, given the life they have been dealt, and to be rewarded or punished accodingly and equitably. I do not think many reincarnation theologies allow humans to be reincarnated as animals or animals reincarnated as humans (except maybe at major Creation Events). The demographics that I have read indicate that, if there are not as many people alive now as have ever lived before, we are close to it. So there is or will be a problem assuming that there are only a finite number of souls available. My guess is that while there are souls who have gone through many incarnations, there are some that have never yet been incarnated. People with such “first-time-around” souls can be recognized by their choice in music, movies and TV programs and behavior that can be described as a farm boy on a trip to Manhattan. There was a sci-fi story many years ago (I think by Arthur C. Clarke) in which there was an epidemic of new births where the babies were healthy but mentally unresponsive. The elderly Indian doctor recognized the problem that the number of souls had run out. As I recall he ended his life in order to provide a soul to a new baby. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2002, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-exponential-population-growth-mean-for-reincarnation/109861/18 "2002-05-23T14:36:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AndrewL \* > \*\*…It travels forwards and backwards in time… \*\* bah, you don’t actually believe in _time_, do you? 😉