# What does fantasy do? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 13, 2026, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-fantasy-do/1027648 "2026-02-13T20:50:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2026, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-fantasy-do/1027648/101 "2026-02-15T18:51:24Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I think the difference between @Spice_Weasel and you two plus me, is that she’s seriously thinking about trying to write this stuff. We’re just trying to read it. > > Huge difference in perspective. And a huge difference in the value of a deeper understanding. I hadn’t thought about it in that way, great insight. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2026, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-fantasy-do/1027648/102 "2026-02-15T19:20:38Z")
The core of science fiction is speculation and extrapolation of the current world and society; the core of Fantasy is usually morality and behavior. Sci-fi explores what if these things are stretched to a future extreme. Fantasy explores ideas of how characters react and influence the world and events around them. That isn’t to say Sci Fi can’t explore morality or Fantasy can’t speculate but that isn’t at the core of their respective genres. And beyond all that, as has been said before, Sci Fi is the art of the possible and Fantasy is the art of the impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2026, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-fantasy-do/1027648/103 "2026-02-15T19:48:33Z")
I’m also aphantasmic. I’m not speaking for @Spice_Weasel sp this is totally my own experience. > [@Reply](#): > > - A dog > - A dog on a leash > - A dog riding a sabertooth cat, > - A dog riding a sabertooth cat riding a dragon in the trenches of the Death Star, except the Emperor was on LSD and all the blasters are psychedelic colors and everything’s always in hyperspace. How close was your mental image of that compared to [something like this](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/gg/AMW1TPpe9jakaPEmpmGClJAutfQv1MswotSQEMS-Qcps2ct4B8q72pJT5Gb8O_3P_BnBVuU2R8Sbr9VoUaxcTFN6DNxBs_P8T_jrwbz_TeAGiTlmsm-CzKqDeyWEBqhpgfPrSxI9g8kgZFRdTCzkIxM8Ob4V-cg0ke4VUB7SDwIsj_My0fuxmmU=s1024-rj-mp2)? - I do not visualize a dog so much as a schematic of a dog. I know what a dog is and that puts a tag up that says dog. It does not indicate breed or coloring or movement, just a memory of having seen a dog. - I know what a leash is so I can add that tag. If I concentrate I can move the leash so that its pointed toward a hand or dragging on the ground, but those are fleeting images that vanish without the effort. - Doing anything with the dog, even merely putting it in a room, requires building the construction step by step. It’s not even a children’s drawing of what a dog on a sabretooth might look like, it’s flashes of memory put together for an instant. - Colors, as I said, are difficult. Backgrounds are difficult. Cluttered scenes are difficult. I could figure out such an image and write it into a story because I know what all the words mean, but if I wanted to use it again I’d have to go back and try to reconstruct what I meant because no image would persist to draw upon. Despite this I’ve published fiction, and with considerable descriptions. The cloud of word tags form the images on the page because, I think, words themselves contain images of what they mean. Whether the reader connects to their word tags or visual images doesn’t seem to matter for most prose, although it will undoubtedly make the experience individual and possibly affect their liking for certain writers over others. It also might be why reading Joyce is so nearly impossible for many. Yet imagine showing the linked image to someone who doesn’t already have all the words to tag the components to. Would it have any meaning other than color or a sense of motion? Science fiction writers lose many readers because they invent alien or future worlds without existing tags. People say the result is impenetrable. Maybe that’s another reason why fantasy, which tends to draw from deep societal familiarity, works better for them. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2026, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-fantasy-do/1027648/104 "2026-02-15T21:36:31Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > That would not be _The Lord of the Rings_, it’s missing the point by a country mile. > For example: the elves are not “parahuman”, they are _elvish_, the important difference between Elves and Humans is not genetic, is spiritual. That was kind of my point. You could “translate” _Lord of the Rings_ into Science Fiction and keep almost all of the narrative events of the story, but it would no longer be fantasy. Precisely because of that spiritual element. A fictional world in which spirit is no longer mere sentiment or a psychological analogy but a real force in the world, is fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2026, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-fantasy-do/1027648/105 "2026-02-15T21:37:18Z")
Ah gotcha ya, sorry!. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2026, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-fantasy-do/1027648/106 "2026-02-15T22:06:45Z")
Another thought that I had, about what fantasy does… I had originally thought to include, as a feature of fantasy fiction, “conflict between the forces of good and the forces of evil.” It’s certainly something that’s true of Tolkien’s works, and much of the Tolkien-esque fantasy books which followed him, but as I thought about it, I realized that it’s by no means a universal aspect of the genre. I mentioned upthread that, when I was in high school, I was a fan of Fritz Leiber’s “Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser” stories. Those guys weren’t really capital-H “heroes,” they were thieves and adventurers, in it for the gold and the glory. They might have fought “bad guys,” but for mostly selfish reasons. My memories of reading Conan stories are fuzzier, but I suspect that they were often much the same. All of that made it no less “fantasy,” and no less enjoyable for me. OTOH, I’ve not read any of the Fafhrd and Gray Mouser stories (mostly written from the '40s through '70s) in years, and it wouldn’t surprise me if they haven’t aged well, as far as how they treat women, for example. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2026, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-fantasy-do/1027648/107 "2026-02-16T00:54:22Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I’ve not read any of the Fafhrd and Gray Mouser stories (mostly written from the '40s through '70s) in years, and it wouldn’t surprise me if they haven’t aged well, as far as how they treat women, for example. Boy and howdy. I read them in the 80s as a teenager, and even then they kinda skeezed me out. I tried rereading one about a decade ago, and it was a big old nope. There are other fantasy heist antihero novels out there that manage the genre without being steeped in misogyny–look at Leigh Bardugo’s _Six of Crows_, for example. A lot of times, the fantasy elements feel like the jam that you spread on the bread. The bread might be good or bad, but whichever it is, the jam makes it sweeter to eat. Something like _Black Leopard, Red Wolf_ would be extremely difficult for me to read without the sweetness of magic and mystery. In fact, I put down the first book I read by the author, a realistic fiction set in Jamaica with an early, brutal murder scene watched by a child–I just couldn’t take it. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2026, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-fantasy-do/1027648/108 "2026-02-16T01:34:08Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Boy and howdy. I read them in the 80s as a teenager, and even then they kinda skeezed me out. I tried rereading one about a decade ago, and it was a big old nope. You reminded me: back then (when I was in high school and college), I was also a big fan of Roger Zelazny’s “Chronicles of Amber” books. I decided to revisit it a few years ago, and listened to the first book – “Nine Princes in Amber” – on Audible. I didn’t enjoy it nearly as much as I did when I was 18, and the use of female characters – including Corwin’s sisters – largely as sexual and political props was one of the reasons why. I finished that book, but didn’t care to re-do the rest of the two series. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2026, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-fantasy-do/1027648/109 "2026-02-16T09:30:48Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I’m talking about the form of speculative fiction I’m a bit torn on the term “speculative fiction”. I mean, spec fiction is all about “what if…?”, but doesn’t that describe all fiction? I know, it’s trying to make a collective set for science fiction, fantasy, and some add horror. But given the modern writing culture, a lot of genres are being blended. Like the romantacies - romance fantasies. Or the SFWestern - space cowboys. Or the alternate history books that mix in science fiction as the cause of the deviation. Or alternate histories where fantasy causes the deviations, like the Temmeraire books. So I think a more insightful description is needed for what SF does versus what Fantasy does versus how Horror interrelates. > [@Alessan](#): > > It can tell a good story. What more do you need? > [@Frodo](#): > > This, why should it “do” something? what does a painting do? what does a symphony do? it’s art. All art actually does something. A painting provides a touch of visual stimulation to speak to the soul. If it’s a portrait, it tries to portray not just the physical likeness of the subject, but a symbolic presentation of the subject’s purpose of image or reason to inspire. A landscape can try to depict the beauty of a place that you might not be able to visit, or capture a time and place long gone. Music is similar in stirring emotions and meaning via sounds and rhythms. It creates shared emotional bonds. Yes, science fiction and fantasy should be entertaining. But saying that is the purpose misses what kind of entertainment. You could also say the purpose of sports is entertainment. Yes, it’s perfectly true, but it’s also almost completely useless. (It does serve as a reminder some authors write completely uninjoyable dreck.) ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2026, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-fantasy-do/1027648/110 "2026-02-16T11:56:46Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > If you asked me what science fiction does, I would say it holds up a mirror to the present moment and asks profound existential questions about what it means to be human. I’d say that’s _some_ of what sci-fi does. I think it’s also often about escapism / fantasy, interesting thought experiments, even an educational aspect when it comes to hard sci-fi, and more besides. I think it’s too tempting for us to look at sci-fi from the 60s, say, note how much it reflected views and society at the time, and declare that that’s what sci fi _really_ is. When that is really only the significant thing for _us_, from the future, watching that media. It’s not necessarily the main or only goal of the people making that media, nor of why people watched or read it at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2026, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-fantasy-do/1027648/111 "2026-02-16T15:23:53Z")
But I did not say that they should be entertaining (though IMHO they better be because whatever other thing they are will be lost if the reader gets bored and closes the book), I said that they shouldn’t “do” anything, meaning that they don’t need to have a purpose, the purpose of art is art. And art is, as you more or less said, something that provokes and emotional response. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2026, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-fantasy-do/1027648/112 "2026-02-16T15:45:43Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Consider **China Mieville** , who uses the city of Bas Lag to explore class struggle, and has one of the most horrific metaphors for drug addiction that I’ve ever seen, in the slake moth. Oh, I read Kraken and loved it. That book was a vibe, and I think I could sustain myself entirely on his prose. > [@Reply](#): > > A dog riding a sabertooth cat riding a dragon in the trenches of the Death Star, except the Emperor was on LSD and all the blasters are psychedelic colors and everything’s always in hyperspace. How close was your mental image of that compared to [something like this](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/gg/AMW1TPpe9jakaPEmpmGClJAutfQv1MswotSQEMS-Qcps2ct4B8q72pJT5Gb8O_3P_BnBVuU2R8Sbr9VoUaxcTFN6DNxBs_P8T_jrwbz_TeAGiTlmsm-CzKqDeyWEBqhpgfPrSxI9g8kgZFRdTCzkIxM8Ob4V-cg0ke4VUB7SDwIsj_My0fuxmmU=s1024-rj-mp2)? Yeah, you lost me. Humorous side note, sometimes when I’m reading romance I have a hard time figuring out what the characters are doing _in flagrante,_ to the point that it’s distracting. It doesn’t help that a lot of authors imagine scenarios that defy the laws of physics. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > I think the difference between @Spice_Weasel and you two plus me, is that she’s seriously thinking about trying to write this stuff. We’re just trying to read it. Yes, and in my quest to become a better writer, I’ve been down a billion rabbit holes trying to deconstruct fiction. For a solid two years I studied _Story Grid,_ which has its flaws but generally agrees with the sentiment that science fiction and fantasy are settings, not story types. That works nicely when you’re trying to construct a story, but I’m just more interested generally in how such settings, or aesthetics, shape storytelling and the reader experience. It seems unlikely that either science fiction or fantasy genres don’t in some way shape the stories they tell. I think it helps to understand what you’re doing in order to do it well. Of course there are some fantasies I’ve really enjoyed, mostly on screen which lends credence to the theory that I need to see it to be enthralled with it. I’ve enjoyed Lord of the Rings, plenty of Marvel films, Buffy, Supernatural. For books I’ve read a lot of Pratchett, a little of urban fantasy (very popular detective of the supernatural, it’s on the tip of my tongue…) and one of my favorite books ever is Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland - did it help to have John Tenniel’s beautiful illustrations? Probably so. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2026, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-fantasy-do/1027648/113 "2026-02-16T15:46:36Z")
The Dresden Files. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2026, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-fantasy-do/1027648/114 "2026-02-16T15:57:31Z")
I love The Dresden Files. I like that even with the wizard protagonist explaining the spells he’s doing, they still _work_ as _magic_ and not tech. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2026, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-fantasy-do/1027648/115 "2026-02-16T17:25:22Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > the sentiment that science fiction and fantasy are settings, not story types Well, yes and no: some science fiction stories are stories _about_ science and technology (e.g. the main problem the story’s plot revolves around is one created and/or solved by some scientific or technological phenomenon). ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2026, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-fantasy-do/1027648/116 "2026-02-16T20:21:14Z")
I’d also say that McGuffins are much more common in sf/f than they are in, say romances. I don’t think that’s a setting issue. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2026, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-fantasy-do/1027648/117 "2026-02-16T20:35:03Z")
MacGuffins are characteristic of many action plots, so it could be an action story in any setting. My fantasy romance had one because there’s an action plot. Kind of a MacGuffin because it was an actual person, not a thing. I don’t know how to write romance without violence. I mean that’s the God’s honest truth. I know all the component parts of a romance but everything I write comes out bloody. I’d be bored, otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2026, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-fantasy-do/1027648/118 "2026-02-16T23:59:17Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > But I did not say that they should be entertaining [snip], I said that they shouldn’t “do” anything, meaning that they don’t need to have a purpose, the purpose of art is art. > And art is, as you more or less said, something that provokes and emotional response. But art doesn’t just sit there, at odds about expression of feelings and emotions and ideas. You can like a painting because you think it’s pretty, but what about it makes it pretty? Is it a landscape that evokes feelings of freedom, of escape from the modern technical world to nature? Do you just like the colors and the way they blend? Paintings and photography and even sculpture are visual media (though sculpture can have a tactile side). They convey meaning through imagery. Music is primarily auditory, though there can be a visceral component, especially when live. Song incorporates lyrics to convey ideas via words, but even nonvocal music creates an experience. What that experience is about is a construct of the type of music. Death metal is a very different vibe than polka. They speak to different audiences with different themes. Messages are sometimes through the feeling evoked by the sound - harsh and loud and jarring versus accordion riffs about happiness. Stories are language media. Whether oral storytelling or written books, they engage the audience via semantic content. Oral storytelling is a communal event that builds shared society through shared stories, and thus cultural expections and morality. Written stories are typically more individual experiences. But because the medium is written word, stories serve as a similar sharing of ideas and norms, it just does it through the portrayal of actions and consequences and exploration of alternate scenarios of living. Some argue that storytelling itself is rooted in our biological mental development. The same drive derives from the ability to conceptualize and predict outcomes to possible actions. The ability to look at previous outcomes and evaluate them in hindsight is a tool to prevent duplicating bad results. Art has purpose. The question that seems to relate to what @Spice_Weasel wants to know is, within the spectrum of storytelling, that makes different genres differently enjoyable? Why does someone choose to read science fiction versus romances, or historical fiction versus murder mysteries? This is the question- what is uniquely appealing about fantasy as a genre? The two genres often overlap. What is it that makes many people only appreciate one of the genres when both can cover the same themes and possibly even plot elements? Science fiction as a genre first emerges in the 19th century. It is born out of the hopes and fears of industrialization and the changes being wrought on civilization. Science fiction only exists in the wake of the identification of the concept of science. Fantasy predates SF via the older forms of fairy tales. Modern fantasy is an attempt to capture the feelings and expressions of mythology, where gods and demons and monsters and heros compete to shape our world. Magic is a concept that comes from an innocence of ignorance, a natural outcome of our human tendency to project cause on the universe in the form of intention, versus happenstance. It’s arguably the driver for the invention of the concepts in the first place - the human desire to explain events as formed through the subconcious filter that all things are driven by intentional acts. Thus the magical beings and magical techniques to affect the world. Modern fantasy appears to be a callback in response to the Industrial Age. Westerns explore the concepts of the frontier verses civilization - what makes civilization and where does it break down. It grew out of the experiences of the American west, so that is the typical expected trappings and motifs. That is what drives the aesthetic and the themes. Some argue that science fiction really should only apply to stories where some key element of the story is some scientific principle or article of technology and how that particular concept affects society. Others see the trappings of the idea of science outcomes as the descriptive feature - ray guns, aliens, space ships and the like. Thus we get space opera - a fantasy story with the trappings of a scientific future. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2026, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-fantasy-do/1027648/119 "2026-02-17T17:38:00Z")
Comic book heroism imho blurs the line between science fiction and fantasy. In fact I would postulate that it’s fantasy _in a science fiction setting._ ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2026, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-fantasy-do/1027648/120 "2026-02-17T19:52:52Z")
Yesterday I asked a friend this question and his attempt to answer it really made me see there’s a lot of overlap and blurred lines between science fiction and fantasy. He’s telling me Stephen King’s _Carrie_ is really science fiction because her abilities are stated to be genetically inherited. So basically she’s an X-Man. Lol. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-fantasy-do/1027648.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-fantasy-do/1027648.md?page=7)