A lot of people accept the false definition of feminism invented and popularized by its opponents.
Feminism is the radical notion that women are human beings not incubators for fetuses, not self-propelled sex dolls, not livestock, and not organic machinery.
As someone who identifies as one, feminism means the guaranteeing of the equality of opportunity and treatment of the sexes under the law and in society. I reject the notion that feminism should be defined by insane misandrists like Andrea Dworkin anymore than nationalism should be defined by Adolf Hitler.
How do you figure? Do you like rape culture, slut walks, fat-shaming, etc.? Those are awful things, and well deserve some opposition.
And…no, feminism is not “all about” these things. It’s still mostly about equality of opportunity, and individual self-determination.
I think you’ve fallen prey to an urban legend. (But, again, even if what you say is true…what is wrong with fighting against rape culture?)
I haven’t read the thread, so forgive me if this repeats what others have said. But the OP did ask for personal responses.
Feminism to me refers to the fairly simple principle that obstacles that are put in front of women due to them being women* should be removed, so that women have the same opportunities to have lives that are as fulfilling and successful as they are able and willing to achieve, compared to men.
This should be a pretty simple concept under most conditions. However, it is still true that only women can have babies, and while this is not the fault of men, it is still up to men to help mitigate the effects of this on the lives and careers of women. How that is to be done is the subject of much debate. Sometimes that debate is not very fair-minded.
*Some would argue that men have different obstacles and in fairness those obstacles should also be removed. I believe and hope that feminism is only arguing for equal treatment, not for unfair advantages for women.
One of these things may not be what it sounds like, Trinopus. I wouldn’t characterise it as an “awful thing” - awful that people feel they have to do it, yeah, but itself a great thing.
To me, personally, the principle that women should have the same rights, responsibilities, freedoms, protections, opportunities, etc. as men.
(Also, personally, y’know, “big whoop”—I’m also in favor of equal rights for Swedes and Nova Scotians. Just not those dumb, gargantuan newfies.)
But, also, that it’s a term and identifier that’s unfortunately prone to being co-opted by assholes—of every political stripe, pro- and anti-.
Some more questions:
For you personally, is feminism pro-, anti-, or neutral about pornography?
Legalized prostitution?
Affirmative action?
There was, at least at one time, a strain of feminism that objected to the objectification of women: meaning that they objected to women wearing sexy clothes, being filmed or photographed in sexy clothes etc. Is that still part of feminism?
There was - again - at least at one time, a strain of feminism that objected to marriage (to a man) and heterosexual sex. They believed those things were inherently demeaning to women. (I’m thinking specifically about Mary Daly, but I don’t think she was the only one.) Is that still part of feminism?
Opening doors for women, or men paying for dates?
Finally: street harassment.
I have 0 experience with this, because I’m (a) a man, (b) never done it © never been in the company of any men who’ve done it. I’ve been to Italy, Romania, and India with my wife, and never seen it - presumably, because she was with me. But she’s been to France without me, and said it was more or less constant over there. On the other hand, she’s never said it happens in the part of America where we live now.
When I hear “street harassment” I think “cat-calling”, in other words, yelling out obscene comments. Is that what it means to you?
How prevalent is it for you, if you’re a woman, and how bad is it?
I don’t understand this question (and your others of the same stripe). Are you asking my opinion about pornography as a feminist or are you asking if, in my opinion, feminism is fer or agin it?
I am pro pornography. It’s never been a major issue of mine and I don’t care much. I think many feminists would also consider it a side issue and a place where there are twice as many opinions as there are feminists. Feminists can agree that we want to pursue equality without always agreeing about how to get there and about what is representative of inequality.
Women are one of the main beneficiaries of affirmative action, unless you mean to only include those that have to do with ethnic/racial minorities. In which case, this feminist is in favor, since after all, I am also a minority as defined in the US.
To me, a woman who is not in favor of affirmative action should take a look at herself, because she has benefited from those programs and ideas.
Mostly yes, cat-calling, whistling, beeping (horns)…
For example, people can be friendly and wish a stranger a “good day” or “good morning”. I have no trouble saying it or replying it. Except when it becomes a “good morning sexy.” Um, no, I won’t reply to that or any variation. Say “good day” just to say it, because it is a nice thing to say, no need to comment on how I look to you.
How prevalent? Every single day. It does not happen if I’m in the company of a man, of course, and it doesn’t happen constantly, or all the time I’m walking or going somewhere.
But since I walk a lot around (just yesterday finally got a car), every time I was on the streets I would eventually get a comment, a whistle, or a car beep.
What is annoying is when they don’t stop but keep going on and on and on. “Hey sexy pay attention to me!”
The only place I don’t get those comments is at work because it is work and people who would likely do that outside know better than to say that to someone in my position.
And yes, the comments occur even on vacation. Although it also depends on the place. Strangely enough, sometimes in Brazil I get less comments than when I go to other parts. It also varies by region. In Brazil I’m more likely to get it if I am dressed up, which I seldom do when travelling, while I get catcalls even if I’m dressing down and no make up in my current place. Heck, I even got the cat calls in Curacao, in Papiamentu.
Feminism isn’t monolithic on these issues. Ask a 1000 self-identified feminists about these issues and you will get 1000 different answers. For example, I think pornography that degrades women is disgusting, but I don’t think it should be illegal as long as no one’s rights were violated in the production. For other feminists pornography is a hate expression that should be restricted.
Sorry. I’m asking your opinion, if you’re a feminist.
If not - I mean, if you’re not a feminist - what’s your opinion or view of whether they’re pro or con or neutral about those issues.
I’ll just add:
I think sexism is rooted in self-perpetuating cultural attitudes, and as such can’t be completely corrected without making conscious efforts to point out and change these attitudes. By which I mean, we have a set of expectations regarding “appropriate” gender roles, which are so deeply ingrained that we often don’t notice them and don’t notice we’re teaching them to others, and these expectations influence our behavior towards each other, which reinforces the expectations.
As a consequence of this, sexism also affects men (for example, the belief that women are “better” at child-rearing, men are “better” at being warriors/soldiers/heroes, regardless of the truth of the matter for the individuals involved), and that effect can be negative for men: losing custody of your kids, being pressured into conforming to macho, aggressive, or toxic ideals of masculinity, etc. So feminism, through re-shaping cultural attitudes, benefits men too. I think that’s a point that a lot of people miss.
The deeply ingrained cultural attitudes is also why it’s taking so long. How do you change something that few people even notice? You end up spending a lot of time arguing whether it’s real, and getting dismissed when you show them it is, instead of working on fixing it.
Cool! Thank you. It was in the list of things in the post I responded to, so I leaped to the conclusion it was comparable. I took “slutwalk” to be another form of “slut shaming.” My error.
It puts me in mind of one of my favorite old jokes:
“It was with women’s liberation that my freedom began,
said the Fuller Brush Woman to the Avon Man.”
Liberation has freed everyone from some pre-established expectations based solely on sex. I’m glad that the military is finally getting around to careful exploration of combat roles for women. The idea that I’d be a better soldier than my sister, solely because I’m XY and she’s XX is insane.
(You should see my sister!)
I’m in favor of pornography, though it’s not always healthy. I think erotica is perfectly fine. I think we should be open culturally to discussing why some pornographic imagery is troubling.
I’m not opposed in theory to legalized prostitution. I want women to have options, and if I truly believe they are becoming prostitutes because they want to, I would have no objection. I don’t really generally believe that, though. (ETA: I originally wrote “people” then moved the sentence around and lost the noun, then threw in “women.” But I want PEOPLE to have options. Including prostitution if that’s where they want to go. I want no one ever to be forced into prostitution, either at gun point or just to be able to get food and shelter.)
I think affirmative action had and has a place. I think diversity is a good goal. I think it can be carried too far.
It’s tiresome when the only images I see of women are attempts to titillate someone. If I never see another Carl’s Jr. commercial it will be too fucking soon. I’m probably not alone in my fatigue. I don’t know if there are many feminists who consider this a major issue.
I’m sure you cn find very radical feminists who would say all sorts of terrible things about men and relationships with them. I’ve never met one. The vast majority of feminists I know are married to men. I’m married to a man and I adore him. He’s my favorite person on the planet, the best person I know, and I am incredibly proud to be in a relationship with someone so amazing.
The only time this is annoying is when someone is actually trying to control my behavior and it’s dressed up as something “courteous.” If I’m walking toward the elevator and you ostentatiously hold the door for me, don’t expect me to rush over. If you’re on the inside and the door opens out, don’t push it open and force me to squeeze past you. Don’t touch me in the guise of helping.
I don’t care who pays for a date so long as the people on the date agree. I think the person who asks should assume they are paying. I think women should ask men out more often.
I’m a dumpy middle-aged woman living in LA. I get yelled at a few time a week. Most of it’s aggressive or violent and it’s usually homeless men. It can be very threatening. I usually am not the target of catcalls (it’s not bad being dumpy and middle aged!) though the yelled things can be explicitly sexual. I have several friends that I’ve walked around with and they’ve been catcalled and chatted up in really aggressive and offputting ways, like men following us down the street. I bet my presence dampens it a little, though I’ve never asked.
Once a month or so a man will tell me to “smile” out of the blue. It makes me want to throat punch.
I don’t think we can put this in the past tense YET. We actually have quite a lot of work to do. As a movement we’re also starting to move towards awareness and incorporation of intersectional issues (those particularly affecting women of color, trans women, gay women, poor women, etc. as well as caring about how other minority groups are also disempowered by society), which I think is vital to the on-going growth and evolution of the movement. So far we’ve left some behind, and we can’t do that anymore, not if we want genuine equality.
Heh. 
Is this the part where I say “cite!”?
Re: street harassment – there’s a whole gamut, much broader than you (LinusK) seem to be thinking. I have personally experienced: cat calls; men silently following me down the street / trail for several blocks walking or half a mile or more biking; teen boys following me on bikes for a couple miles until they could position themselves to grab my ass without falling off their bike or colliding with mine; a man following me around a nightclub for 20 minutes after I had already said no, shook my head, and walked away from him, before grabbing my wrist and attempting to bodily drag me with him; a man who asked me for a coffee date no fewer than five times after I said no (I even resorted to “I’m seeing someone else” and he didn’t back off); a man who started swearing loudly after me when I didn’t interrupt my run at his behest to see what he wanted; a man (who I didn’t know) who crept up behind me while I was sitting at my friend’s party, wrapped his arms around me, and started licking my neck; a man who walked up behind me while I was on a train platform looking down the tracks for the train and by way of introduction yelled at me “WHAT? YOU DON’T DATE OUTSIDE YOUR RACE?!” and then proceeded to follow me around the platform demanding an answer – this guy was a head taller and easily twice my mass, and VERY angry.
In some of those cases, I believe the men involved thought they were being charming, but going back to the whole cultural expectations / toxic masculinity thing, what it really demonstrates is the unquestioned belief that I belong to them simply by being a woman in public, and my consent or opinion on the matter is irrelevant.
So… harassment can be annoying, or absolutely terrifying, but it’s pretty common.
Oh, and I realized after the fact that neck-slobbering dude from the party had targeted me in advance. I’d gotten a Facebook friend request from a stranger, which I ignored and forgot about after determining it was no one I knew. Afterwards I realized it was the same guy who grabbed me at the party. Creepy. (Where’s that puking smilie?)
For you personally, is feminism pro-, anti-, or neutral about pornography?
Pro erotica - I have friends in the sex industry. I’m anti exploitation - women turning to porn because they are hooked on drugs, come from a history of abuse, and lack other choices.
Legalized prostitution?
See above
Affirmative action?
I think there was a time and place for affirmative action that has largely, but not completely passed in regards to white women.
There was, at least at one time, a strain of feminism that objected to the objectification of women: meaning that they objected to women wearing sexy clothes, being filmed or photographed in sexy clothes etc. Is that still part of feminism?
For some feminists, yes. Again, anti exploitation. And I’m not thrilled with the prevalence of objectification imagery in advertising - but its gotten so much better with societal pressure. When I started in IT 30 years ago, booth babes were still a thing. Now salespeople are still good looking (and often female) in the industry, but no one tries to hand me a promotional jump drive while wearing a bikini.
There was - again - at least at one time, a strain of feminism that objected to marriage (to a man) and heterosexual sex. They believed those things were inherently demeaning to women. (I’m thinking specifically about Mary Daly, but I don’t think she was the only one.) Is that still part of feminism?
I haven’t heard much about that level of radicalness since the mid 1980s.
Opening doors for women, or men paying for dates?
I’m not fond of people rushing to doors to open them for me because I’m female. I’m fine with someone rushing to open a door because my hands are full, or someone holding the door open because they are there first and its polite. My husband always pays on date night - out of a joint account. Should my daughter ever choose to date guys - she’ll be told that the first date should be dutch - you don’t want your date to think you owe him something. But that has more to do with the risk of sexual abuse and rape than with feminism.
Finally: street harassment.
I have 0 experience with this, because I’m (a) a man, (b) never done it © never been in the company of any men who’ve done it. I’ve been to Italy, Romania, and India with my wife, and never seen it - presumably, because she was with me. But she’s been to France without me, and said it was more or less constant over there. On the other hand, she’s never said it happens in the part of America where we live now.
When I hear “street harassment” I think “cat-calling”, in other words, yelling out obscene comments. Is that what it means to you?
How prevalent is it for you, if you’re a woman, and how bad is it?
Now that I’m nearing fifty - not bad at all. Twenty years ago - bad. Thirty years ago - overwhelming. Maybe society has changed and not me…but I’ve seen it happen to my fifteen year old daughter - I think its me, thirty years and twenty pounds.