# What does Frere Jacques mean? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 5, 2007, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-frere-jacques-mean/402869 "2007-05-05T11:08:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2007, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-frere-jacques-mean/402869/1 "2007-05-05T11:08:56Z")
Ok, I wasn’t the best French student, but where in the world do the lyrics say “morning bells are ringing”? What does this song say, if translated literally? A bell is la cloche! Here is the line in French “Sonnez les matines” What the hay? :mad: (I suffered through 4 years of that language! And, this is exactly why!) - Jinx ---
**Author:** ![AveDementia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc8723/32.png) [@AveDementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AveDementia)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2007, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-frere-jacques-mean/402869/2 "2007-05-05T11:18:59Z")
Matins are a church service in the early morning, so the “morning bells” would be ringing for that. > **[Matins](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matins)** > > Matins (also Mattins) is a canonical hour in Christian liturgy, originally sung during the darkness of early morning. > The earliest use of the term was in reference to the canonical hour, also called the vigil, which was originally celebrated by monks from about two hours after midnight to, at latest, the dawn, the time for the canonical hour of lauds (a practice still followed in certain orders). It was divided into two or (on Sundays) three nocturns. Outside of monasteries, it was generally rec... That’s all I recall from my high school French for that song. Also, there’s an entry for the song on Wiki. > **[Frère Jacques](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A8re_Jacques)** > > "Frère Jacques" (/ˌfrɛərə ˈʒɑːkə/, .mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .references .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}French: \[fʁɛʁ(ə) ʒak\]), also known in English as "Brother John", is a nursery rhyme of French origin. The rhyme is traditionally sung in a round. > The song is about a friar who has overslept and is urged to wake up and sound the bell for the matins, the midnight or ve... ---
**Author:** ![Full\_Metal\_Lotus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/df705f/32.png) [@Full\_Metal\_Lotus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Full_Metal_Lotus)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2007, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-frere-jacques-mean/402869/3 "2007-05-05T11:30:24Z")
Father Jack, father Jack, are you sleeping, are you sleeping, morning bells are ringing, morning bells are ringing are you sleeping? litterally a jibe at preists that overslept morning mass but it was also a subtle poke at the catholic church… they were sleeping while protestantism grew… FML ---
**Author:** ![Pixisis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@Pixisis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pixisis)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2007, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-frere-jacques-mean/402869/4 "2007-05-05T11:33:02Z")
Frere Jacques - Brother John (probably monk) Dormez vous ? - Are you sleeping ? Sonnes les matines - Morning bells are ringing (lit Matins are sounding) Ding - Dang - Dong - sound of bells So, this monk doesn’t show up for morning prayer, probably because he’s still asleep, and someone is wondering where he is. All in all, much nicer than Alouette … ---
**Author:** ![detop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@detop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/detop)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2007, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-frere-jacques-mean/402869/5 "2007-05-05T11:43:01Z")
[nitpick]Frere Jacques would be better translated by Brother James[/nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2007, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-frere-jacques-mean/402869/6 "2007-05-05T12:03:44Z")
Yeah, Jacques is closer to James, or Jacob. And actually, the English version “morning bells are ringing” isn’t what the French version says; the French is “Sonnez les matines,” which is “Ring the bells.” It’s a command in the imperative tense. Brother James, Brother James, Are you sleeping? Are you sleeping? Ring the (morning prayer) bells, ring the (morning prayer) bells, Ding-dang-dong, ding-dang-dong. It’s not “Stairway to Heaven,” but it’s got a beat and you can dance to it. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2007, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-frere-jacques-mean/402869/7 "2007-05-05T12:49:02Z")
I always heard it translated to “Brother John.” ---
**Author:** ![Eureka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/74df32/32.png) [@Eureka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2007, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-frere-jacques-mean/402869/8 "2007-05-05T13:05:49Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] I always heard it translated to “Brother John.” [/QUOTE] Yes, but. . . I think that’s a stylistic thing. John is easier to sing/better vowel/fits rhythmically/all that kind of stuff, rather than an attempt to directly translate the actual name precisely. And it’s really the same thing with “Morning bells are ringing”. Any time you translate verse,\* and especially song lyrics one has to strike a balance between rhythm, meaning, and prettiness. \*I started with poetry, but that’s rather a grand title for this little bit of a song. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2007, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-frere-jacques-mean/402869/9 "2007-05-05T16:05:04Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] I always heard it translated to “Brother John.” [/QUOTE] It adds to the confusion that in English, “Jack” is traditionally a nickname for “John,” not for “James.” ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2007, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-frere-jacques-mean/402869/10 "2007-05-05T16:18:08Z")
[QUOTE=Eureka] Yes, but. . . I think that’s a stylistic thing. John is easier to sing/better vowel/fits rhythmically/all that kind of stuff, rather than an attempt to directly translate the actual name precisely. And it’s really the same thing with “Morning bells are ringing”. Any time you translate verse,\* and especially song lyrics one has to strike a balance between rhythm, meaning, and prettiness. \*I started with poetry, but that’s rather a grand title for this little bit of a song. [/QUOTE] The people who translate songs for a living making beaucoup bucks. It is a very very hard thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2007, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-frere-jacques-mean/402869/11 "2007-05-05T19:45:12Z")
I have a boardgame called Mystery of the Abbey which is a Clue like game where you try to discover who pushed Brother Adelmo down to his death at the bottom of a ravine. Yeah, I think it’s clear that it The Name of the Rose by Uberto Ecco was the inspiration. Anyway, during the course of the game you draw an event card at the beginning of the day for Matins which affects how the game is played until the next day. One of the cards you draw requires everyone in the game to sing Brother John. Sorry, that’s my only Brother John story. My favorite card in the game requires everyone to speak in Gregorian Chant until the next day. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2007, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-frere-jacques-mean/402869/12 "2007-05-05T21:07:52Z")
Hermano Juan, Hermano Juan ¿Duermen? ¿Duermen? Suene los matines! Suene los matines! ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2007, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-frere-jacques-mean/402869/13 "2007-05-05T21:19:40Z")
Oh yeah? Well, Mester Jakob, Mester Jakob, Sover du? Sover du? Hører du ej klokken? Hører du ej klokken? Din dan don, din dan don. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2007, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-frere-jacques-mean/402869/14 "2007-05-05T21:37:14Z")
never mind ---
**Author:** ![Rico](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rico/32/3582_2.png) [@Rico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rico)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2007, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-frere-jacques-mean/402869/15 "2007-05-05T23:26:14Z")
My grandmother got bit by a møøse. ---
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2007, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-frere-jacques-mean/402869/16 "2007-05-06T12:15:07Z")
Thanks, all…I never knew it had a religious note to it! By the way, we cannot talk about a song without giving Durran Durran an honorable mention! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2007, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-frere-jacques-mean/402869/17 "2007-05-06T12:16:23Z")
[QUOTE=Rico] My grandmother got bit by a møøse. [/QUOTE] The moose in this thread has been sacked. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2007, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-frere-jacques-mean/402869/18 "2007-05-06T13:59:30Z")
Apparently the French have a thing about oversleeping. I looked up the lyrics because I didn’t believe **RickJay** about the imperative (he’s right, though) and right next to it I found: Meunier, tu dors (Miller, you’re sleeping) Ton moulin (Your mill) Va trop vite (Is going too fast) Va trop fort (Is going to forcefully) It’s a different tune, and the lyrics repeat in a more complicated order, but you can make it fit. There’s also another one about bells: Maudit sois-tu, carillonnuer (Curse you, bell-ringer) Toi qui naquis pour mon malheur! (You who were born for my misery!) Dès le point du jour à la cloche il s’accroche, (From dawn he hangs on the bell) Et le soir encor’ carillonne plus fort (And in the evening he rings still more forcefully) Quand sonnera-t-on la mort du sonneur? (When will they sound the bell-ringer’s death?) ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2007, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-frere-jacques-mean/402869/19 "2007-05-06T16:11:23Z")
We used to sing this version as kids: Fray Felipe, Fray Felipe Duermes tu? Duermes tu? Toca las companas, toca las companas Ding, dong, ding Ding, dong, ding At least this is how I remember it. With the line “Toca las companas” meaning “Ring the bells” not “bells ringing”. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2007, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-frere-jacques-mean/402869/20 "2007-05-06T16:18:39Z")
“Hey vicar, stop supping that bloody sacramental wine and get down the church you idle git” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-frere-jacques-mean/402869.md?page=2)