# What does "God loves you" mean? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 4, 2007, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-god-loves-you-mean/402744 "2007-05-04T14:52:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2007, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-god-loves-you-mean/402744/141 "2007-05-09T00:02:44Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] Point of clarification-“Self-Evident” does _not_ mean “Evident only to myself”. [/QUOTE] Noted, and agree upon. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2007, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-god-loves-you-mean/402744/142 "2007-05-09T00:18:55Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] Without change your future will be more of the same. [/QUOTE] Could be worse. Could be raining. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2007, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-god-loves-you-mean/402744/143 "2007-05-09T01:12:20Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] Could be worse. Could be raining. [/QUOTE] Yes, and it is raining here. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2007, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-god-loves-you-mean/402744/144 "2007-05-09T04:21:53Z")
[QUOTE=Valteron] What light from above? It is s cute metaphor, but what does it mean? What light are you referring to? [/quote] Sunlight. > [@](#): > > The question about intelligence is irrelevant. Intelligence is a quality possessed by a thinking being. It cannot exist by itself. It is like saying a smile existed before there were mouths, lips and teeth. Intelligence is the ability of a reasoning being to reason, deduct, think, extrapolate, predict, draw conslusions, etc. The more accurately and quickly a thinking being does this, the more we say it is intelligent. Irrelevant to you perhaps. I think it’s important to what we are discussing. You said it is a quality possessed by a thinking being. At what point does one become a thinking being? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2007, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-god-loves-you-mean/402744/145 "2007-05-09T04:29:16Z")
**kanicbird** While we are on the subject of biblical literalism. Here’s a question for you. If Jesus meant those words for you, why didn’t he bother to write them down himself? How do you know he wasn’t speaking directly to his disciples telling them that the only road FOR THEM was through him. After that one. Which sect of Christianity is the true and authentic one? How do I know I’m really following Jesus and not a heretical facsimile? To me that seems like a lot of corporate branding scare tactics intended to get me to buy a product. Jesus of course is welcome to come and make his case to me, however, I do not believe that my soul is bound to a book of corrupted prose that has been translated and redacted countless times. When Jesus gets around to defragging his hard drive, I’ll be a little bit less confused about the whole thing, and I might just happily skip along behind him. The people I refuse to follow are all the snake oil sycophants that came along afterward telling me that they knew the inerrant word of God and that I should trust their interpretation of it better than my own. I do not believe in cultural exceptionalism as far as God is concerned. I don’t think that someone is only being lead toward destruction because they were born in India and thus use the word ‘Karma’ instead of ‘Sin’. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2007, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-god-loves-you-mean/402744/146 "2007-05-09T04:52:30Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] Science says that personal experience is unreliable, yet scientists continue to use their personal experiences to study things. [/QUOTE] We’ve been through this before. The reason the details of experiments are written up in papers, and no one trusts any result until it has been reproduced, is because the unreliability of personal experience is explicitly recognized. Cold fusion is a splendid example. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2007, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-god-loves-you-mean/402744/147 "2007-05-09T09:03:02Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] If Jesus meant those words for you, why didn’t he bother to write them down himself? How do you know he wasn’t speaking directly to his disciples telling them that the only road FOR THEM was through him. [/QUOTE] It is echoed many times in the letters to the churches and in Revelation in one form or another. And the text is pretty clear: [QUOTE=John 14:6 NAS] Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. [/QUOTE] > [@](#): > > Which sect of Christianity is the true and authentic one? How do I know I’m really following Jesus and not a heretical facsimile The bible has instructions in the regard, test the spirit is one such guideline. Nowhere does Jesus say to become a Christian, but just to follow Him. The best way is to study the bible and explore the spiritual gifts for yourself, challenge (and annoy) the teachers, just as Jesus did with the pharisees. > [@](#): > > To me that seems like a lot of corporate branding scare tactics intended to get me to buy a product. There is, i’ll admit, and very little of that has to do with being a follower of Christ. I am convinced that though Christianity is pretty popular, being a true follower of Christ has always been a underground movement - a subset of those people who attend church services. > [@](#): > > Jesus of course is welcome to come and make his case to me It is hard to hear Jesus, He may be knocking right now: [QUOTE=Revelation 3:20 NIV] Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me. [/QUOTE] > [@](#): > > The people I refuse to follow are all the snake oil sycophants that came along afterward telling me that they knew the inerrant word of God and that I should trust their interpretation of it better than my own. I agree with this, **mswas** all you addressed here is already answered in scripture, actually the NT and available for you to find out for yourself, no snake oil salesman. > [@](#): > > I do not believe in cultural exceptionalism as far as God is concerned. I don’t think that someone is only being lead toward destruction because they were born in India and thus use the word ‘Karma’ instead of ‘Sin’. Also addressed in scripture. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2007, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-god-loves-you-mean/402744/148 "2007-05-09T13:17:45Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager] We’ve been through this before. The reason the details of experiments are written up in papers, and no one trusts any result until it has been reproduced, is because the unreliability of personal experience is explicitly recognized. Cold fusion is a splendid example. [/QUOTE] Personal spiritual experiences have been written up in detail and varified by doctors and technicians in attendance. Near death experiences have been reproduced by thousands of people. So. Science is no different than religion when it comes to change no matter what they say. I am only interested in truth. Science tells people they are created by their brains without any proof at all. They do the same with evolution and many other things. Science is as hypocritical as religion. Truth only my friend will set you free. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2007, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-god-loves-you-mean/402744/149 "2007-05-09T13:37:37Z")
Aside from making one aiming-at-objectivity post early on, I’ve stayed out of this one. But I do need to speak up here. Yes, Jesus did say the words in John 14:6 quoted above – at least on the reasonable presumption that the people who compiled the Gospels were taking reasonable care to report what was remembered about Him. However, in time-honored evangelical fashion, **kanicbird** is quoting them out of context to make them seem like an exclusivist, exclusionary line in the sand. Rather, they’re _reassurance_ to a despairing disciple: “You don’t have to keep Torah perfectly, or master some esoteric doctrine of the Way, or arrive at a Zen-like satori of the Truth, to be sure of a right relationship with God. You know **me** , and **I’m** all those things. Nobody ever found Him without finding Me at the same time, and you already know and trust Me.” Remember too that John’s image of Jesus is the Eternal Word of God incarnate as a human being – Jesus is saying that whenever anyone has ever found God, He has been there helping it happen in His role as God’s active _Logos_. It’s the farthest thing from, “If you want God’s salvation, you need to give your heart to Jesus, all your money to our church (collection plate to your right), and your brains to our zombification fund (deposit it in the vat to the left, please.” In context, they are words of reassurance – “you already know/have the way, the truth and the life, Thomas – you know, trust, and love Me, and I’m all you need.” ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2007, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-god-loves-you-mean/402744/150 "2007-05-09T13:40:20Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] I am only interested in truth. [/QUOTE] Let us know when you find it. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2007, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-god-loves-you-mean/402744/151 "2007-05-09T14:12:12Z")
For me, “God loves you” means that God shares his aesthetic with you. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2007, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-god-loves-you-mean/402744/152 "2007-05-09T15:00:57Z")
With me, personally, or with each of us, individually? Because I have a hard time believing in a God who not only accepts but fails to condemn over-lacquered wooden figurines of big-eyed puppies and Billy Bass wall displays. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2007, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-god-loves-you-mean/402744/153 "2007-05-09T17:49:41Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] Aside from making one aiming-at-objectivity post early on, I’ve stayed out of this one. But I do need to speak up here. Yes, Jesus did say the words in John 14:6 quoted above – at least on the reasonable presumption that the people who compiled the Gospels were taking reasonable care to report what was remembered about Him. However, in time-honored evangelical fashion, **kanicbird** is quoting them out of context to make them seem like an exclusivist, exclusionary line in the sand. Rather, they’re _reassurance_ to a despairing disciple: “You don’t have to keep Torah perfectly, or master some esoteric doctrine of the Way, or arrive at a Zen-like satori of the Truth, to be sure of a right relationship with God. You know **me** , and **I’m** all those things. Nobody ever found Him without finding Me at the same time, and you already know and trust Me.” Remember too that John’s image of Jesus is the Eternal Word of God incarnate as a human being – Jesus is saying that whenever anyone has ever found God, He has been there helping it happen in His role as God’s active _Logos_. It’s the farthest thing from, “If you want God’s salvation, you need to give your heart to Jesus, all your money to our church (collection plate to your right), and your brains to our zombification fund (deposit it in the vat to the left, please.” In context, they are words of reassurance – “you already know/have the way, the truth and the life, Thomas – you know, trust, and love Me, and I’m all you need.” [/QUOTE] Yeah, that’s the Jesus I know, not the other one. The other one sounds like a Pharisee. **kanicbird** For more clarification. I use the different names of God in different contexts. If I wanted to talk about the scary destructive face of God I would use the word Shiva. If I wanted to talk about submission to God, I might use the word Allah. If I want to talk about softness and redemption, I speak of Jesus. I’ve always had a soft spot in my heart for Jesus. He’s a good guy, but doesn’t always adequately express the notion I am attempting to. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2007, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-god-loves-you-mean/402744/154 "2007-05-09T18:09:27Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] However, in time-honored evangelical fashion, kanicbird is quoting them out of context to make them seem like an exclusivist, exclusionary line in the sand. Rather, they’re reassurance to a despairing disciple: "You don’t have to keep Torah perfectly, or master some esoteric doctrine of the Way, or arrive at a Zen-like satori of the Truth, to be sure of a right relationship with God. [/QUOTE] I never said one has to keep the Torah perfectly or those other things, we don’t have to BECAUSE we know the one who did/does and He will speak up for us. Jesus knows the Father, if we know Jesus and accept Him in His proper place that’s all we need. Why I posted that is because you can’t go directly to the Father, you MUST go through Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2007, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-god-loves-you-mean/402744/155 "2007-05-09T18:49:52Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] Let us know when you find it. [/QUOTE] Everyone knows truth when they hear/see/feel it. It is not necessary to find it. The big problem is people don’t know when to say “I don’t know what is true.” They would rather come up with theories, opinions, assumptions and such labeling these as truth. The truth is we don’t know how life came about on this planet nor even how the planet came about. It is ok to say I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2007, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-god-loves-you-mean/402744/156 "2007-05-09T20:02:19Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] The truth is we don’t know how life came about on this planet nor even how the planet came about. It is ok to say I don’t know. [/QUOTE] Hey, you are a scientist after all! Science has never said “we absolutely know the truth about the creation of life and the planet Earth”. We have many theories, and some are more widely accepted than others, and they change and grow frequently . But no scientist will say they know the absolute immutable truth about creation. We leave that to those with faith. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-god-loves-you-mean/402744.md?page=7)