# What does "Heat, Central Air Included" mean regarding a condo unit? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 30, 2024, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-heat-central-air-included-mean-regarding-a-condo-unit/1004993 "2024-07-30T05:43:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![3AxisCtrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/ecd19e/32.png) [@3AxisCtrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3AxisCtrl)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-heat-central-air-included-mean-regarding-a-condo-unit/1004993/21 "2024-07-30T13:38:49Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Part of the HOA fees are to include Water, hot water, heat, and central air. > … > There is a water heater in her unit. These two statements seem incompatible. If recurring HOA fees (probably monthly) “include hot water”, this implies they cover the recurring costs of heating the water. But electricity for a water heater in her unit almost certainly is on her monthly bill. This issue will surely be decided by the precise terms of the contract(s) OP’s daughter signed - which surely include full details of the HOA agreement, It sounds as if daughter hasn’t yet carefully read & understood this, which (if true) is unfortunate, as the law regards her signature as certifying exactly that. (I would be notably reluctant to live in a condo where utility costs are included in monthly HOA fees. When individual residents have no meaningful incentive to conserve, expect average utility costs to be sky-high. See:Tragedy of the Commons.) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-heat-central-air-included-mean-regarding-a-condo-unit/1004993/22 "2024-07-30T13:39:49Z")
In a condo we rent out, the phrase means they provide the heat (via radiators) or cool air (which switches over by season) and you pay the electricity to run the fan that is in the unit. ---
**Author:** ![a6ka97](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c2a13f/32.png) [@a6ka97](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/a6ka97)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-heat-central-air-included-mean-regarding-a-condo-unit/1004993/23 "2024-07-30T14:30:11Z")
The phrase is somewhat ambiguous and by one definition HVAC is provided, as a physical presence of the units for you to use if you choose to. The fees would be to maintain and/or replace the units. If your daughter bought a condo wasn’t a real estate agent involved? If not, maybe an agent would have been money well spent to go over the details such as this. A “thrifty” friend of the family was going to save himself some money by buying a FSBO home and skip the Realtor and the fees. The one thing missing was a 2 stall garage that was one of his requirements, the house had a small single stall. The home owner was a contractor and made the offer that if he bought the house at the asking price he would build a new 24’X26’ garage in the next year. Even had a separate addendum stating this. The following year the family friend called the contactor and asked when he was going to start, The contactor asked if he had the old garage torn down, the new cement pad poured, permits for the city filed, and material bought? Our friend said “No, that is your responsibility” The contactor said “I would BUILD the garage not furnish the materials”. Our friend went to see a lawyer and they basically told him he was SOL and said a real estate agent probably would have asked for a better definition of what “build a garage” would entitle. ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-heat-central-air-included-mean-regarding-a-condo-unit/1004993/24 "2024-07-30T15:00:13Z")
In reading the post linked in the OP, it seems said Condo is in Texas. I wonder, Houston, Austin, or Dallas/Ft. Worth area (it doesn’t matter, much)? One thing that Texas has is a deregulated electrical market. That is, you buy your electricity from whoever is willing to sell it to you the cheapest. Most of the country has electric utilities that serve a given area, which has a monopoly that is highly regulated. Not in Texas. There are a multitude of small companies who will sell it to you for a much lower rate, but add surcharges for periods of high demand. When you compare your electrical bill, don’t compare her total with yours, but take the total cost and divide it by the KWH (Kilowatt-Hour) used, to get a cost per KWH. If that is much over $0.14, I would be concerned that she’s contracted with an energy supplier that is taking advantage of her. Unless she wants to actively manage her electricity usage and suppliers, she is probably better off with a flat rate plan from a larger supplier (CenterPoint, for example). Maybe a bit higher on the average bill, but no surprises (and, no, having a $250 bill in the middle of one of the hottest summers that’s ever been seen should not be a surprise). ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-heat-central-air-included-mean-regarding-a-condo-unit/1004993/25 "2024-07-30T21:58:43Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Part of the HOA fees are to include Water, hot water, heat, and central air. Is this an exact quotation? Where did you read this? > [@pkbites](#): > > If central air is “included” wouldn’t that mean also the power to run it? What does “hot water included” mean? If this was in the listing for the sale of a condo, I will warn you that it is very common for the details in a listing to differ somewhat from what the condo documents and disclosures actually say (often referred to as the Covenants, Conditions, and Restrictions, or CC&Rs). The real estate agent may have meant to say something like the unit includes an air conditioner, heater, and hot water heater. Instead they chose language that made it seem like the utility service for those was included in the HOA fees. I doubt that it was. If there is a conflict between what the listing said and what the CC&Rs say, the purchase and sale agreement generally says something to the effect of “ignore what the listing says. Rely on what’s in the CC&Rs.” Agents don’t generally lie on purpose but they are sometimes mistaken so the purchase and sale agreement is written to protect them from innocent mistakes. That means they can get away with being careless for a long time without it ever really biting them in the ass. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Did your daughter and her boyfriend not read the CC&Rs before buying into the condominium? This is critical. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > They should exactly what is covered by HOA fees, which likely includes insstallation and basic maintenance of HVAC systems but not the operating costs, because of course an HOA isn’t just going to cover utilitites. Properties of different ages and in different places are all over the map on this. if this is a condo built in the last 30 years in my area, the unit almost certainly has its own heating and cooling appliances in the unit and the maintenance and utilities are the responsibility of the buyer. If it’s a high-rise type building, there will also be heating and cooling units for the common areas. The HOA fees will include maintenance and utility costs to provide those services **in the common areas**. if it’s an older building, particularly a condo conversion, it might have central heat, hot water, and air conditioning, and all of the utilities may be included in the HOA fees because the building wasn’t separately metered when it was built. It’s also quite possible in such cases that the resident would have no control over when heat or air conditioning operate or the temperature they will maintain. I haven’t seen a condo in my area that offered all the utilities included and also offered an individual unit holder complete control over the temperature. That way lies madness. > [@pkbites](#): > > I assume so. I do wonder, however, why her electric bill for a condo is more than mine is for a 3 story 4 bedroom home. My guess? Probably because she thought the electricity was free so she kept her condo at approximately refrigerator temperature and when she got too cold, she opened the window to warm it back up. It’s also possible that by keeping the condo at refrigerator temperature when her neighbors kept their apartments at sensible temperatures, she effectively air conditioned their units for them through the heat transfer through her walls, floor and ceiling. Even in newer construction, the interior walls between units aren’t insulated. If everybody keeps their home at similar temperatures, there is no real heat transfer between them. If one person wants to be a gross outlier, they will pay a disproportionate portion of the price. > [@FinsToTheLeft](#): > > Could the electric bill be high due to setup charges or an incorrect reading as the opening value? Another possibility is that the meter is read only from time to time and that she had to pay some electric arrearage when they transferred the account. In my area, the custom as close is to get a meter reading day or two before the closing and settle up the utility accounts before closing but there is room for sloppiness or error in this process. > [@pkbites](#): > > I was in her unit 2 weeks ago when it was a swealtering 91 outside and unbearably humid. > Her place was like an ice box. I was impressed. But where the frigid air is coming from I know not. She should figure this out. As LSLGuy said, she’s paying for this one way or another. > [@Chronos](#): > > It’s possible that she has both central air, and also individual AC units in her place. The central air is covered by the fees, but not the individual AC. Perhaps this exists somewhere but I have never heard of a building that had both central air conditioning and individual units in each residence. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-heat-central-air-included-mean-regarding-a-condo-unit/1004993/26 "2024-07-30T23:21:23Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > > [@pkbites](#): > > > > I assume so. I do wonder, however, why her electric bill for a condo is more than mine is for a 3 story 4 bedroom home. > > My guess? My guess is different. Measured in dollars, Texas electricity is some of the most expensive in the country and doubly so on peak usage = hot or cold days. Measured In terms of KWh of electricity consumption, TX summers and WI summers are worlds apart in terms of cooling required. Lastly, many even recent construction condos & apartments have negligible insulation. The builder’s immediate customer, the apartment owning enterprise or the pre-construction condo flippers value low sticker price far above operating cost. The eventual unit owners or tenants pay out the ass for decades due to that short-sighted decision-making. Holy perverse incentives, Batman! ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-heat-central-air-included-mean-regarding-a-condo-unit/1004993/27 "2024-07-30T23:57:48Z")
When I was looking over our condo, I asked the previous occupant where the water heater was. She didn’t know. I never found it because the condo provides the hot water. There are separate cutoff valves for the hot and cold water, but the cold water only is metered. On the other hand the AC is inside the unit and we certainly pay for the power. I have the thermostat set at 78. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2024, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-heat-central-air-included-mean-regarding-a-condo-unit/1004993/28 "2024-07-31T00:14:14Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > On the other hand the AC is inside the unit and we certainly pay for the power. I have the thermostat set at 78. I have a similar setup and have my thermostat set to 78 because I’m miserable every second the interior temp is anything less. I’m not even happy when it’s 79 inside but I’m in the chilly HVAC draft; waaaay too cold for my tastes. Which saves lots of money in summer compared to many folks but gets spendy in winter. Such as that is here. ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2024, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-heat-central-air-included-mean-regarding-a-condo-unit/1004993/29 "2024-07-31T00:41:19Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > Yes, I’ve never heard of a rental/condo where electricity is provided. I’ve seen it for some places that were not 100% legal-legal but still with a lease, mailbox, doorbell and other formalities. I stayed in a 2x2-flat, common in in Chicago but that had a gray fifth basement unit with power included since the landlord didn’t want separate utility meters. That unit’s power was routed from the building-wide meters for common lighting, garage, laundry, etc. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2024, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-heat-central-air-included-mean-regarding-a-condo-unit/1004993/30 "2024-08-01T10:39:32Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > In reading the post linked in the OP, it seems said Condo is in Texas. Don’t know how you got this. As stated in the link the mortgage company is in Texas. The condo is in southeastern Wisconsin in northwestern Milwaukee County (Wauwatosa). ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2024, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-heat-central-air-included-mean-regarding-a-condo-unit/1004993/31 "2024-08-01T15:00:37Z")
Whenever asking questions about real estate, state laws will nearly always play a larger part then any federal regulations. For this reason, including the state where the property is located is important. If you don’t include it, people may look for clues. I apparently got it wrong. Sorry. Disregard most of what I said. ---
**Author:** ![Snipe70e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/51bf81/32.png) [@Snipe70e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snipe70e)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2024, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-heat-central-air-included-mean-regarding-a-condo-unit/1004993/32 "2024-08-02T04:42:05Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > She ran the air during the day several times last month and her electric bill was astronomical. What does Astronomical mean. A lot of KWHs or a lot of dollars. If it was a lot of dollars without a lot of KWH that means her rates were very high. If it was a lot of KWH that means she was consuming a lot of power. Also the units can have HVAC units and the central HVAC system is for the public areas. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-heat-central-air-included-mean-regarding-a-condo-unit/1004993.md?page=1)