# What does Iran really want, geostrategically? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 8, 2011, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-iran-really-want-geostrategically/602273 "2011-11-08T14:35:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-iran-really-want-geostrategically/602273/81 "2011-11-15T00:20:10Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Sure, I’d like to stop China from cracking down on dissidents, killing people, etc. But realistically, we’re not going to do that and we can’t do that. What you call a cavalier attitude I call being realistic I remember in 1992 Clinton ran against continuing China’s “most favored nation” trading status with the U.S. until they cleaned up their human-rights record. He dropped that after taking office; probably he was confronted with just how much removing China’s MFN status would disrupt the American economy. I recall a cartoon (Oliphant, I think) from the period – Clinton is eating in a Chinese restaurant. Caption: “Crispy crow with Most Favored noodles! I love Chinese food!” ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-iran-really-want-geostrategically/602273/82 "2011-11-15T01:07:22Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > We’ll switch from having lots of Sunnis to lots of Shiites. That’s no big deal. Let Iran have its power, it will make little difference in the end. Too bad you can’t see that through your myopia. You think a two democracies and a number of relatively secular, somewhat tolerant countries being replaced by totalitarian dictatorships ruled by a combination of Sharia and Velayet-e faqih is “no big deal”? Perhaps not to you, but certainly most of the people of Lebanon, Iraq and other countries would disagree. Frankly, I think the odds of that happening are incredibly slim regardless of what Iran does, for a number of reasons(for example the Iraqi government while quite pro-Iranian hasn’t been willing to transform themselves into an Iran-style theocracy and the Hezbollah hasn’t proven as successful in Lebanon as they’d like) but it takes an extreme amount of callousness and indifference to say “no big deal”. As for my “myopia”, well, I have family their so obviously I do care. You seem to be arguing that Lebanon being transformed from a fairly secular democracy into a totalitarian theocracy isn’t going to be a threat to you in America so why should you care what happens to the women or gays of Lebanon, but most of us aren’t so self-serving and shallow in our motivations and outlook on the world. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-iran-really-want-geostrategically/602273/83 "2011-11-16T00:20:18Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > You think a two democracies and a number of relatively secular, somewhat tolerant countries being replaced by totalitarian dictatorships ruled by a combination of Sharia and Velayet-e faqih is “no big deal”? > > Perhaps not to you, but certainly most of the people of Lebanon, Iraq and other countries would disagree. Switch Sunni and Shiite around and you’d have the people of Pakistan, Afghanistan, Egypt, etc. disagreeing. To Americans, and certainly in the grand scheme of things, neither side is better than the other. Shiites may have Iran trying for nukes and Hizbullah attacking Israel, but Sunnis have their crazy Wahhabbi sect and Al Qaeda. Trying to advocate for one or the other makes no difference because both sides have very crazy extremists. Do I want to fight Hizbullah supported by Iran or Al Qaeda supported by Saudi Arabia? It doesn’t matter > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > As for my “myopia”, well, I have family their so obviously I do care. Well, sorry about the family thing, I didn’t know, but its clear why you’d support one side over the other. To someone like me and the majority of Americans, it doesn’t matter because we see both sides as bad. If we argued over China and Taiwan, then maybe I’d have a different viewpoint, but I wouldn’t expect you to agree with me on that issue > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > You seem to be arguing that Lebanon being transformed from a fairly secular democracy into a totalitarian theocracy isn’t going to be a threat to you in America so why should you care what happens to the women or gays of Lebanon, but most of us aren’t so self-serving and shallow in our motivations and outlook on the world. I’m saying that if I have the power to magically make Iran democratic or Saudi Arabia, it makes little difference morally (unlike I have shares in oil companies) to me. They both deserve help, and they are both bad and in need of change. Maybe that’s a bad example because Saudi Arabia’s a bit more strict, but the gist of it is that helping one side of the Sunni/Shiite divide means less help for the other side and to me, someone who doesn’t have family there and a vested interest, I might as well be flipping a coin ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-iran-really-want-geostrategically/602273/84 "2011-11-16T15:12:25Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Iran knows what every other country knows: If you have nukes, you won’t be invaded. They saw what happened to Iraq. They saw the lessons learned from the Balkans. They know the history of Vietnam. And they realize that Kim Jong Il’s probably nuttier than a sack of cashews but he’s still in charge > > Ultimately, I don’t really care if they have influence over their area of the world. If it wasn’t Saddam dropping gas on his population, then its Iran using Hizbullah to attack Israel, same shit, different people. People in the US pretending like its some huge violation and calling for sanctions or action are usually the loudest ones shouting that the UN can’t be trusted and going on about conspiracies of foreign troops in our cities, probably enforcing abortion or something, so I’m not inclined to listen to what conservatives have to say about Iran at all > > I’m for Iran getting nukes. At least that cuts off one country we can invade. If Pakistan and all its craziness with terrorists and India hasn’t lost a nuke yet and NYC hasn’t gone up in a mushroom cloud, then I’m for letting Iran have one too. I hope they develop one quick, in case we get a Republican in 2012, so that there will be no more talk about attacking them no matter how uneasy Israel feels > > They just want to feel safe in their own borders like all countries do. Having nukes is the easiest way to ensure that. What excuse built support for invading Iraq? Yes it was false, but we invaded Iraq on the premise they had WMD. So nukes will stop us from invading Iran? > [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Iran wants leadership of the Muslim world in preparation for the 12th Imam. Nuking Israel will get them popular support from Indonesia to Morrocco resulting in their rightful role as the capital of the most powerful region in the world, the Ummah. I am very much afraid this is closer to the thinking of the current leadership, who we have to deal with now. It is hard to see Kim Jong-il as a model of rationality and stability, but so far he has foregone use of his toys. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-iran-really-want-geostrategically/602273/85 "2011-11-16T15:57:05Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > You seem to be arguing that Lebanon being transformed from a fairly secular democracy into a totalitarian theocracy . . . The pol who can turn Lebanon into a totalitarian **anything** deserves to be enthroned as God Emperor of the World. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-iran-really-want-geostrategically/602273/86 "2011-11-16T19:59:51Z")
> [@thelabdude](#): > > What excuse built support for invading Iraq? Yes it was false, but we invaded Iraq on the premise they had WMD. So nukes will stop us from invading Iran? Iraq was invaded because they didn’t really have nukes. Iran is going to really get them probably, and that will stop the invasion. The crisis time is now, between when they don’t have it and when they do, when the line is blurred between whether or not an attack would be enough to stop them. I believe that once Iran tests a nuke and comes out as a nuclear power, the invasion talk will soon cease [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-iran-really-want-geostrategically/602273.md?page=4)