# What does it mean to be an American?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-an-american/81776
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [September 15, 2001, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-an-american/81776 "2001-09-15T05:49:26Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [September 15, 2001, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-an-american/81776/1 "2001-09-15T05:49:26Z")
Driving around lately, I have seen so many billboards and marquees proclaiming how proud people are of being Americans. However, I don’t know what it means to be an American as of September 14, 2001. Bombing a faceless nameless Arab country into a radioactive sludge is certainly not what it means to me. As much as the World Trade Center meant to me, two majestic monolithic structures that hold memories throughout my entire life, possibly more than any other building, in their quiet permanence, though I always liked the Empire State Building better, they don’t signify what it means to be an American.
When I shed my cynicism and delve deeply into what it means to be an American, that small part of me that feels any sort of patriotism with or without a crisis to bring it the front, I examine what that means to me.
Being an American means to me, the country that defied an empire for the sake of a few ideals. A country that has always attempted to live by a rigid code that can be summed up with ten rules that are designed to protect those ideals, and also define what those ideals are. Being an American is filling with pride when you hear the names of people like Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson, despite and foibles and shortcomings they may have, sometimes not even living up to their own ideals. However these men strived for ideals and accomplished them, in a more coherent form than had any country ever before or ever since.
Now these ideals have come into question in the past few years, and I often question if we still live by them, and for the most part I think we do. We have many programs that fly in the face of those ideals, yet I can still walk down the street with a shirt that says just about anything on it. I can actually build a house of worship to pretty much any god that I like. I can own a gun to protect my home from intruders, or if need be my very own government. My government has built in rules to protect me from IT, not from outsiders but from IT. I find that rather remarkable.
Now is a time where I find these ideals coming into question. My country is a place where an arab can walk down the street and come mourn the loss of his countrymen AND mine even though someone killed those countrymen in the name of HIS god. I know he did not do it, and if he did, I would rather err on the side of the ideals.
So what are YOU fighting for, is my question. Are you fighting for the ideals that have slowly eroded over the past few years but still stand as a monument to their meaning? It seems to me with all the questions of what freedoms you would give up, that most people are not fighting for that. It seems that most people are fighting for safety. Fighting for safety is a worthy cause, I have no problem with it. However it is not fighting for freedom. The people who are fighting for safety alone are not fighting for the ideals of this country, they are fighting to make sure there home can be a safe place to live and I think on the ideal front many of us have already lost this war, though they may still win on the safety front.
I am going to close this with a quote from Ben Franklin that was my sig file for longer than any other sig that I have had.
“They that give up essential liberty for a little bit of temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
Now I believe without liberty there is no safety, but that is just me, others may feel very safe without it.
Love,
Erek
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### Author:  [@EvilGhandi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilGhandi)
#### Post date: [September 15, 2001, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-an-american/81776/2 "2001-09-15T06:21:30Z")
What Erik said
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### Author:  [@Lux\_Fiat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lux_Fiat)
#### Post date: [September 15, 2001, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-an-american/81776/3 "2001-09-15T09:24:06Z")
I couldn’t have said it better, man.
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### Author:  [@AMM9132](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AMM9132)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2001, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-an-american/81776/4 "2001-09-16T01:49:36Z")
I am proud to be an American for an infinite number of reasons. I live in the greatest, most powerful nation in the world. A nation that accepts everyone, regardless of origin, race, or religious creed. A nation that is founded on the unshakeable foundation of freedom. A nation that will always be free of tyranny and oppression. A nation where we are free to worship whoever and wherever we please, wear whatever we want, and speak and write whatever is on our mind. I am very proud to be an American. I am willng to fight and die for my country and for what we stand for, liberty and justice for all. And I am willing to fight and die to maintain the American way of life which so many before me have puttheir lives up to preserve as well. To me, this is true patriotism and to me, this is what it means to be an American.
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### Author:  [@Yue\_Han](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yue_Han)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2001, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-an-american/81776/5 "2001-09-16T02:10:27Z")
Erek, dude, you are really impressing me lately.
–John
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### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2001, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-an-american/81776/6 "2001-09-16T08:07:30Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Yue Han \*
> \*\*Erek, dude, you are really impressing me lately.
>
> –John \*\*
Why thank you, I appreciate that.
I am just a little disappointed that I didn’t get a whole lot more response to this thread, as I think it’s pretty important to examine what it means to be an American these days for that has come into question in politics in general over the past few years arguably the last century, in my mind and if we are going to redefine what it means, I would like to see what definition it is going to get. Ideals are very important, but I think Solidarity is more important, and while I loathe to give up ideals if there is a true shift in what it means to be an American maybe it’s time to come flat out and say what that shift is rather than let our rights erode. Do we have improvements on the original plan? Because if so, I think we should rebuild the entire house instead of adding and taking away in stop-gap measures all over the place.
Erek
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### Author:  [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2001, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-an-american/81776/7 "2001-09-16T08:20:22Z")
**Erek**
It’s the quality, not the quantity, my dear libertarian friend. […backing up a bit… …offring a snappy salute…]
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### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2001, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-an-american/81776/8 "2001-09-16T08:25:59Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Libertarian \*
> \*\ ***Erek**
>
> It’s the quality, not the quantity, my dear libertarian friend. […backing up a bit… …offring a snappy salute…] \*\*
Ha, man, just wait til I start spouting off about social programs. I wouldn’t necessarily claim myself as a libertarian, however I do tend toward libertarian ideals a lot of time, socialist, other times.
Erek
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### Author:  [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2001, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-an-american/81776/9 "2001-09-16T09:03:03Z")
Take [this quiz](http://www.lp.org/quiz/) at the LP site to get a better idea of where you stand than can be plotted on the worn-out, one-dimensional, left-right model of politics.
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### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2001, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-an-american/81776/10 "2001-09-16T09:16:38Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Libertarian \*
> \*\*Take [this quiz](http://www.lp.org/quiz/) at the LP site to get a better idea of where you stand than can be plotted on the worn-out, one-dimensional, left-right model of politics. \*\*
I took that before, I was pretty much a right leaning liberal.
Erek
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### Author:  [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2001, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-an-american/81776/11 "2001-09-16T09:20:37Z")
Okay, then. […saluting the right-leaning liberal…]
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### Author:  [@techchick68](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/techchick68)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2001, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-an-american/81776/12 "2001-09-16T09:21:47Z")
I am also impressed, here is a quote from Thomas Jefferson that is appropriate for this thread:
“ **I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.** ” --Thomas Jefferson, 1791.
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### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2001, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-an-american/81776/13 "2001-09-16T10:38:11Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by techchick68 \*
> \*\*I am also impressed, here is a quote from Thomas Jefferson that is appropriate for this thread:
>
> “ **I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.** ” --Thomas Jefferson, 1791. \*\*
Yeah, I really like that one too. Too much sad shit to go around these days. I wanted to get a shirt made up that said, “I don’t hate Arabs.” So far I think that the biggest tragedy is that we are turning on the arab community in this country. Anyone ever see “The Siege” I always thought that it was pretty much an unrealistic idea albeit an entertaining movie. Now it just seems all too real. Well fuck the bigots. I think the best solution we have available to us is to label every one of these bigots as terrorists. That might be the only way to get their attention.
Erek
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### Author:  [@Lsura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lsura)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2001, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-an-american/81776/14 "2001-09-16T12:40:00Z")
Wow.
With your permission, I’d like to send it to a friend (with a specific request that it **not** be forwarded). She and I continually argued these points, even before the events of the last week. And after this week, she’s tried to convince me that we should restrict immigration, that we should make Americans, temporary residents, and visitors of Arabic descent register with the government.
I cannot convince her that what she is talking about would mean that we are not America anymore. We would be something else.
Laura
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### Author:  [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2001, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-an-american/81776/15 "2001-09-16T13:57:59Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Libertarian \*
> \*\*Take [this quiz](http://www.lp.org/quiz/) at the LP site to get a better idea of where you stand than can be plotted on the worn-out, one-dimensional, left-right model of politics. \*\*
Whoa! I’m a libertarian to a HIGH degree!:eek:
I thought I was a republican!
Self-reflection in progress…
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### Author:  [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angel_of_the_Lord)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2001, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-an-american/81776/16 "2001-09-16T17:07:03Z")
Erek…I have to agree with you. 100%
The past few days, I’ve seen humanity pull together in ways that I never thought would happen. I’ve seen everyone pull together for the sake of the nation. This is a good thing.
However, I fear that in the wake of this, the government might be given too much power. While these would initially be seen as ways to combat terrorism, once the threat has begun to wane…I don’t think that the government will just relinquish the power that we have so willingly given them.
Do we need to protect ourselves? Yes. Should we give up some of our basic liberties in order to do so. . .that I don’t know.
Yes, part of me is of the mind that I would do anything to feel safe again. However, I believe that part of what makes us human is the ability to value ideals over our own personal safety.
Just a thought :).
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### Author:  [@Arden\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arden_Ranger)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2001, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-an-american/81776/17 "2001-09-16T17:38:35Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Libertarian \*
> \*\*Take [this quiz](http://www.lp.org/quiz/) at the LP site to get a better idea of where you stand than can be plotted on the worn-out, one-dimensional, left-right model of politics. \*\*
Hmmm… I’m a Centerist with strong Libertarian leanings.
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### Author:  [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2001, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-an-american/81776/18 "2001-09-16T17:51:20Z")
\
Aargh! I _hate_ that quiz. It’s a push quiz and it’s wildly inaccurate. I’m not on the corner between left-liberal, centrist and libertarian (leaning towards left-liberal). Not even close.
I think the graph that they use is an excellent one, certainly more informative than the old right/left axis, but I wish they’d get rid of or fix that quiz and get rid of the obvious “Do you want kids to starve?” style questions (the “Drug laws do more harm than good. Repeal them.” question should, assuming that the point of the quiz is accuracy rather than converting people, be phrased “Should all drug laws be repealed?”).
\
Fenris
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### Author:  [@CnoteChris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CnoteChris)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2001, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-an-american/81776/19 "2001-09-16T17:54:09Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Astroboy14 \*
> \*\*Whoa! I’m a libertarian to a HIGH degree!:eek:
>
> I thought I was a republican!\*\*
What the… me too!!
_Now_ what do I do?
Libertarian? Who are these jokers and whey’d they take me away from the republican party?
(Truth is, I waver quite a bit on this distinction, depending upon the person and what he/she stands for. If you’d ask me, however, which party I’d choose, I’d say I was more republican than democrat)
\*Nice post Erek.
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### Author:  [@CnoteChris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CnoteChris)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2001, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-an-american/81776/20 "2001-09-16T17:58:58Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Fenris \*
> **I think the graph that they use is an excellent one…**
You know, I thought the same thing… if only a bit off-kilter.
My dot pushed me towards the upper left corner of that ‘house’ looking graph. Upon looking at it, my SIM’s impared mind immediately thought, “Hey, my dot puts me in the perfect spot for a bathroom. A nice window looking out, and plenty of room to expand.”
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