# what does it mean to be "spiritual?" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 28, 2009, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-spiritual/504592 "2009-07-28T20:52:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-spiritual/504592/41 "2009-07-29T17:33:12Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > I’m not sure what you’re saying here - that doesn’t seem to follow. I consider myself a materialist, and I believe in reason, freedom, love, etc. Well then, you and I have different definitions of materialism. By my definition you are not a materialist; by your definition I am. In my experience a materialist would not believe in these things; he would explain them strictly in terms of physical processes that occur in the brain. To a materialist, “love is a chemical reaction.” I also think it’s materialistic to believe that the purpose of our lives is to reproduce and perpetuate the species. That doesn’t account for all the bazillion things we do that have nothing to do with reproduction. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-spiritual/504592/42 "2009-07-29T17:44:02Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Well then, you and I have different definitions of materialism. By my definition you are not a materialist; by your definition I am. > > In my experience a materialist would not believe in these things; he would explain them strictly in terms of physical processes that occur in the brain. To a materialist, “love is a chemical reaction.” > > I also think it’s materialistic to believe that the purpose of our lives is to reproduce and perpetuate the species. That doesn’t account for all the bazillion things we do that have nothing to do with reproduction. If love isn’t a chemical reaction[/persistent informational state in the self-aware electrochemical state of our brains], then what _is_ it? Can I spread it on a cracker? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-spiritual/504592/43 "2009-07-29T17:50:26Z")
Someone is spiritual if they are, or should be in twelve step program. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-spiritual/504592/44 "2009-07-29T18:18:31Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Religious often connotates a set of written rules and a earthly person to go to as a authority, usually it indicates a person is just aware of a physical reality with hope and faith of a spiritual reality, which one can take as extra dimensions that our 5 senses can’t detect. Spiritual indicates awareness of these extra dimensions and a living component of them. Being aware of things our 5 senses are not able to detect. Fairly good description of spirituality. Closer than the others, but they are not being serious, just skeptical. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-spiritual/504592/45 "2009-07-29T18:25:28Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Fairly good description of spirituality. Closer than the others, but they are not being serious, just skeptical. Actually, many of them are being serious, but just don’t believe it decribes having superpowers. There seem to be three serious definitions of “spiritual” floating around here. 1. feels ‘moved’ by things. Emotional, not supernatural. 2. believes in some supernatural things, but doesn’t commit to a religion 3. has superpowers. 3 is not the most common one given here. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-spiritual/504592/46 "2009-07-29T18:53:02Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > In my experience a materialist would not believe in these things; he would explain them strictly in terms of physical processes that occur in the brain. To a materialist, “love is a chemical reaction.” Now I’m really confused. I definitely believe in those things (love, reason, etc.), _and_ I would explain them strictly in terms of physical processes that occur in the brain. It seems like you’re saying that if I think love is a product of material, electrochemical processes in the brain, then I don’t “believe in it.” Although I can’t see how you get from here to there. Can you explain a little more? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-spiritual/504592/47 "2009-07-29T19:16:48Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Actually, many of them are being serious, but just don’t believe it decribes having superpowers. > > There seem to be three serious definitions of “spiritual” floating around here. > > 1. feels ‘moved’ by things. Emotional, not supernatural. > 2. believes in some supernatural things, but doesn’t commit to a religion > 3. has superpowers. > > 3 is not the most common one given here. Ok, but none of these things come close to describing spirituality. I am not moved by things, nor is there anything supernatural, nor do spiritual people have superpowers. A question was asked by the OP, being spiritual I tried to answer it from a spiritual perspective. The other answers came from non-spiritual posters with the possible exception of one or two. How can I take those non-spiritual posters serious, when they just make fun most of the time. When someone wants to learn about a subject he doesn’t claim to know the subject. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-spiritual/504592/48 "2009-07-29T19:27:31Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Well then, you and I have different definitions of materialism. By my definition you are not a materialist; by your definition I am. > > In my experience a materialist would not believe in these things; he would explain them strictly in terms of physical processes that occur in the brain. To a materialist, “love is a chemical reaction.” > > I also think it’s materialistic to believe that the purpose of our lives is to reproduce and perpetuate the species. That doesn’t account for all the bazillion things we do that have nothing to do with reproduction. I am confused, You have just quoted the Bible: Genesis 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth. Genesis 9:7 “As for you, be fruitful and multiply; Populate the earth abundantly and multiply in it.” Then you say ‘love is a chemical reaction’ but to what and how, no evidence exists for this statement. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-spiritual/504592/49 "2009-07-29T19:31:18Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Someone is spiritual if they are, or should be in twelve step program. Twelve stop programs teach some spiritual principles but the people there don’t have to be spiritual. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-spiritual/504592/50 "2009-07-29T19:37:44Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Being aware of things our 5 senses are not able to detect. I have an infrared camera, a radio and a geiger counter. I’m spiritual because I have 8 senses. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![NoJustice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecb155/32.png) [@NoJustice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoJustice)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-spiritual/504592/51 "2009-07-29T19:38:42Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > In my experience a materialist would not believe in these things; he would explain them strictly in terms of physical processes that occur in the brain. To a materialist, “love is a chemical reaction.” Recognizing the fact that love is a chemical reaction, doesn’t equal not believing in it. > [@](#): > > I also think it’s materialistic to believe that the purpose of our lives is to reproduce and perpetuate the species. That would be _one_ materialistic perspective… but a narrow minded one. There is no reason other materialists cannot see things differently, as long as they don’t resort to nonexistent entities to find meaning in their lives. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-spiritual/504592/52 "2009-07-29T20:39:35Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Ok, but none of these things come close to describing spirituality. I am not moved by things, nor is there anything supernatural, nor do spiritual people have superpowers. > > A question was asked by the OP, being spiritual I tried to answer it from a spiritual perspective. > > The other answers came from non-spiritual posters with the possible exception of one or two. > > How can I take those non-spiritual posters serious, when they just make fun most of the time. When someone wants to learn about a subject he doesn’t claim to know the subject. I’ve noticed recently that you have a problem with definitions. Specifically, you reject the notion that words can have multiple meanings - and then you take words and redefine them so that nearly _everyone_ will disagree with your definitions. (By pretty much **everyone’s** definition, you believe in the supernatural.) This former results in you insisting that reasonable statements are nonsense, and the latter results in you saying things that are nonsense to everyone else. (And you do think that spiritual people have superpowers - psychic powers are superpowers. Though if you like I am willing to concede that you might be cold and emotionless, unmoved by anything.) ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-spiritual/504592/53 "2009-07-29T23:39:45Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I’ve noticed recently that you have a problem with definitions. Specifically, you reject the notion that words can have multiple meanings - and then you take words and redefine them so that nearly _everyone_ will disagree with your definitions. (By pretty much **everyone’s** definition, you believe in the supernatural.) This former results in you insisting that reasonable statements are nonsense, and the latter results in you saying things that are nonsense to everyone else. > > (And you do think that spiritual people have superpowers - psychic powers are superpowers. Though if you like I am willing to concede that you might be cold and emotionless, unmoved by anything.) Nothing is supernatural, all things follow certain laws of the universe including spirituality. People who are not spiritual or don’t believe in spirituality naturally don’t know and understand the laws of spirituality. The same for superpower. It is a natural occurance of becoming spiritual to be able to feel and see things non-spiritual people can not. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-spiritual/504592/54 "2009-07-29T23:45:50Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Nothing is supernatural, all things follow certain laws of the universe including spirituality. People who are not spiritual or don’t believe in spirituality naturally don’t know and understand the laws of spirituality. The same for superpower. It is a natural occurance of becoming spiritual to be able to feel and see things non-spiritual people can not. What’s your point? That you’re the Word King? That you literally do not comprehend that 99.9% of the english-speaking population considers the word “supernatural” to _explicitly_ refer to all ghosts and spirits? That you think that by making blatantly abnormal use of words you you make your beliefs sound somehow less abnormal? ---
**Author:** ![NoJustice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecb155/32.png) [@NoJustice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoJustice)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-spiritual/504592/55 "2009-07-30T00:12:09Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Nothing is supernatural, all things follow certain laws of the universe including spirituality. People who are not spiritual or don’t believe in spirituality naturally don’t know and understand the laws of spirituality. You may not choose to use the word ‘supernatural’ to refer to the things you believe in, but that doesn’t change the fact that the word, as it was used by **begbert2** in that list, refers to the things you spoke of. Bicker over terminology all you want, but you will never succeed in changing the meaning of other people’s words, and will never convince anyone by trying. Even if your own personal definition of supernatural made any sense\* we all know what was meant by the word when it was used. It’s obvious you know as well. Arguing the point will get you nowhere. - In your attempts to squirm out of having the word apply to the beliefs you’ve spoken of here, you’ve narrowed the definition so far that it no longer applies to anything at all. “_nothing is supernatural_”. This, unfortunately, robs the word of any meaning whatsoever. Words have meaning. This alone is enough to declare your definition as incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-spiritual/504592/56 "2009-07-30T02:18:58Z")
> [@NoJustice](#): > > You may not choose to use the word ‘supernatural’ to refer to the things you believe in, but that doesn’t change the fact that the word, as it was used by **begbert2** in that list, refers to the things you spoke of. Bicker over terminology all you want, but you will never succeed in changing the meaning of other people’s words, and will never convince anyone by trying. Even if your own personal definition of supernatural made any sense\* we all know what was meant by the word when it was used. It’s obvious you know as well. Arguing the point will get you nowhere. > > - In your attempts to squirm out of having the word apply to the beliefs you’ve spoken of here, you’ve narrowed the definition so far that it no longer applies to anything at all. “_nothing is supernatural_”. This, unfortunately, robs the word of any meaning whatsoever. Words have meaning. This alone is enough to declare your definition as incorrect. I thought people wanted to know what spirituality was like? Guess I was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-spiritual/504592/57 "2009-07-30T17:02:14Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I thought people wanted to know what spirituality was like? Guess I was wrong. Actually the question was more what people mean when they verbally self-categorize as nonreligious-yet-spiritual. This question can be answered relatively simply without redefining terms left and right, even for _your_ notion of spirituality, as noted by the fact that you did so yourself in your first post in this thread. Then, after you disparaged the integrity of all the answers that didn’t agree with yours, you got bothered that in my response to that I categorized _your_ definition of “spirituality” (along with **kanicbird’s** ) as “having superpowers”, and as a result apparently felt compelled to disagree with _every single thing I said_. And so here we are. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-spiritual/504592/58 "2009-07-30T17:06:23Z")
To me it means attuned to subtle aspects of life that cannot be fully described in material terms. Ideas like love for instance. People like to say that love is just an emotion, but it encompasses more than just the emotion. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-spiritual/504592/59 "2009-07-30T17:43:12Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > To me it means attuned to subtle aspects of life that cannot be fully described in material terms. Ideas like love for instance. People like to say that love is just an emotion, but it encompasses more than just the emotion. If somebody started a separate GD thread on what love is, if not an emotion, then I’d certainly take an interest in it. (I won’t start such a thread though, because it’s not my thesis. And because I’m shy.) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-spiritual/504592/60 "2009-07-30T17:55:54Z")
The truth is that Protestant zealots were an important part of the revolutionary coalition, but not predominant. [Here’s](http://www.johnreilly.info/fflav.htm) an excellent review/deconstruction (by conservative Catholic intellectual John J. Reilly) of [Marvin Olasky’s](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Olasky) _Fighting for Liberty and Virtue._ As against Olasky’s thesis, Reilly states: > [@](#): > > It is simply false to say that the Revolution constituted a “culture war” between England and the United States. The leaders of both sides were a mixture of deists, agnostics, libertines and Christians of ordinary piety. The populations they led were not so different from their leaders. The British government, unlike the liberal establishment of today, had no new morality of their own devising which they hoped to impose on the colonies. The British leadership seems not to have had any ideological policy at all, beyond the maintenance of parliamentary supremacy throughout the Empire. The “culture war” of the Enlightenment started when the Revolution in France sought the end of class distinctions, traditional morality, and the expurgation of Christianity. In that war, Britain and the young United States were pretty much on the same side. (The United States also had its Jacobin “Left,” of course, which agitated for direct support of revolutionary France.) Though the culture war that began with the French Revolution has suffered various mutations, that is the conflict which continues to this day. See also this article from _The Nation:_ ["Our Godless Constitution.](http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050221/allen) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-spiritual/504592.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-it-mean-to-be-spiritual/504592.md?page=4)