# What does Middle America see in Donald Trump **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 14, 2020, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773 "2020-04-14T15:31:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/101 "2020-04-16T18:47:42Z")
The whole idea that there is a “Middle America” that is the basis for Trump’s support is a misnomer. It’s White America. White conservatives like to claim descriptors like “real America” or “Middle America” or “Working-Class America,” but it’s nothing of the kind. The only thing they broadly have in common is that they’re white and they resent the threat of loss of white privilege (while denying that there is any white privilege) ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/102 "2020-04-16T19:55:08Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > I find the last part hard to believe. If conservatives really believed that hard physical work should be rewarded, then why do they keep voting for those who want to reward the wealthy who rely on the hard physical work of others and do very little to no work (physical or otherwise) themselves? Because that’s part and parcel of being the boss: you pay your dues, and pretty soon it’s _you_ making bank off the labor of others. Conservatives fight to preserve this order because many of them see themselves as one day being rewarded by it. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/103 "2020-04-17T00:01:41Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Y’know, part if it is that to many in the lower and middle classes of the MAGAverse it IS existential, in this very visceral sense: as a liberal, to that other person I sound like I am saying the only hope for his son’s future, is for that son to grow up to think and speak and be like ME, not like him. > > I would not be surprised if that man takes offense at that and throws his support behind someone who he believes can shut me up. > No, but he embodies what they think are values of being “tough” and “not taking shit from anyone” (that was Ted Cruz’s mistake when he spoke of DT embodying “New York Values” – he thought he was dogwhistling “cosmopolitanism and sexual decadence”. The voters heard “hustling and taking no shit from anyone”). > > Just as often you have heard that his public image is a poor person’s caricature of what being rich must be like, his image is also a disempowered person’s caricature of what is being powerful. Which means _being intimidating_ and able to hurt others with impunity. And from some people’s POV that is not bullying, it’s asserting dominance, and from their life experience the observation is that _it works and just is the way the world **is** _. I’d say that’s fair. To me, Trump comes across like an ill-informed blowhard who is used to running his own family business he inherited. IOW, someone who is used to telling people to do what he wants, when and how he wants or you get fired. Politics doesn’t work like that. Heck, most successful companies don’t work like that (let’s not pretend that The Trump Organization is in the same level as the Johnson & Johnsons and Goldman Sachs of the world). Most of the time it requires a lot of compromise across many stakeholders. But I can see how if you are a conservative, Trumps uncompromising nature fighting for your particular ideology is appealing. Sort of like a demanding drill sergeant or football coach. You do it the RIGHT way or GET THE FUCK OUT! And it seems to me that conservatives have an almost pathological aversion to being “told what to do”. Also any implication that their success has been achieved through anything but their own efforts (and conversely that anyone less fortunate is deserving of a “helping hand”). Like they loose their fucking minds. I read these posts by people complaining about “martial law” locking us down because of the virus. And I’m like “Your profile says you were in the FUCKING AIR FORCE! You should a) know what martial law is and is not and b) if you are so “anti-government” or whatever, why did you work for them for so many years?” > [@Saintly Loser](#): > > Well, sure, if you count Staten Island and some of the Brooklyn Hasidic groups and other ultra-orthodox groups. > > But seriously, this city doesn’t have a single Republican in its Congressional delegation. There are three (of 51) in the City Council, and two of them are from Staten Island. > > I know that “Republican” does not necessarily equal “Trump Supporter,” but the near total lack of Republicans in the city’s government, and in legislative bodies elected from the city, should tell you that the number of Trump supporters in the city probably isn’t all that significant. You know New York had two Republican mayors in my lifetime who were relatively popular-ish (Giuliani and Bloomberg)? Plus there are plenty of Republicans in New York and the surrounding area. My wife never shuts off Fox News. I don’t know if they are considered “Middle America” as opposed to “Wall Street elite”. Most of them sound like what **leahcim** described. Libertarian types who don’t want regulations or tone-deaf analytical quant types whos analysis leads them to “everyone but me can fuck themselves”. Some are actual Wall Street guys bemoaning the fact that they are being treated like the Jamie Dimons and David Solomons of the world while struggling to get by on a couple hundred thousand a year. ---
**Author:** ![Settimo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Settimo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Settimo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/104 "2020-04-17T02:57:18Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Exactly. Such threads usually last about 10-20 posts on topic before it devolves into arguing as to why someone \*\*\*shouldn’t \*\*\*support Trump, rather than the original question (asking why people _ **do** _ support Trump.) The nature of the question completely shifts. > Asking - in a non-heated, objective, rational way - why some people support the KKK, or Nazis, or ISIS, is entirely different than a finger-pointing shouting match over why people \*shouldn’t \*support those ideologies. ``` IMHO, threads like this could be separated into two branches. The first branch is to vent the collective spleen, and the other is for more concerted answers to the question. [Here's an article](https://www.businessinsider.com/sam-altman-interview-trump-supporters-2017-2) on someone who's actually gone around the country interviewing Trump supporters and lived to tell the tale (2017 blog post reprinted in Business Insider, which slants a bit left of center). Some highlights: Top three things they liked about POTUS: ``` > [@](#): > > ``` > He's not politically correct. > He's anti-abortion. > He will preserve our culture. [may be translated into anti-immigration] > > ``` ``` general comments (the interviews include a fair amount of nose-holding / negative views of Trump): ``` > [@](#): > > ``` > He's crazy, but it's a tactic to get other nations not to mess with us. > I hate that he discredits the press all the time. That seems to forebode great evil. > The left is more intolerant than the right. > ...the demonization of Trump by calling him and his supporters Nazis, KKK, white supremacists, fascists, etc., works very well in entrenching Trump supporters on his side. > > ``` ``` multiple pleas for listening: ``` > [@](#): > > Stop calling us racists. Stop calling us idiots. We aren’t. Listen to us when we try to tell you why we aren’t. > You all can defeat Trump next time, but not if you keep mocking us, refusing to listen to us, and cutting us out. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/105 "2020-04-17T03:13:29Z")
[quote=“sps49sd, post:93, topic:851773”] No shit, you’re living in a bubble. NYC has significant Trump supporters; it is not the bubble you portray. This “Middle America” of yours, which sure looks like a synonym for “Flyover States”, is not as monolithic as most posters in this thread are treating it. [quote=“sps49sd, post:93, topic:851773”] I’m actually talking about people I know who live an hour or so from Manhattan. People who live in typical suburban towns in Connecticut, New York, New Jersey and Pennsylvania. I don’t need to travel to Iowa or Kansas to meet Republicans. > [@sps49sd](#): > > “But Trump-”! Yeah, some of it, but there is a lot of overstatement and histrionics. Biden- again, in my opinion- is _still_ worse. “Worse” how? The knee-jerk hatred of Liberals and Democrats by the Right is not self-evident to me. Other than that they make associations with “socialism” or “political correctness”, which are apparently so offensive to their sensibilities it drives them out of their minds. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2020, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/108 "2020-04-18T14:24:24Z")
> [@sps49sd](#): > > “But Trump-”! Yeah, some of it, but there is a lot of overstatement and histrionics. Biden- again, in my opinion- is _still_ worse. I’ll try. In what way is Biden worse than Trump? ---
**Author:** ![Sdowiat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Sdowiat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sdowiat)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2020, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/109 "2020-05-09T16:26:14Z")
Right at HALF the people in America voted for him… Including the vast majority who live in “Middle America”, and yet you don’t understand why they would have done that? You need to get out of the bubble that you live in and mingle a bit with the backbone of America. There’s going to be a LOT MORE than just this that you will become enlightened to. Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2020, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/110 "2020-05-09T17:12:21Z")
I have some acquaintances who are poorly informed in general about politics. They don’t like to admit this, so they retreat to anodyne observations that neither side is perfect, we ought to be talking to each other, and it’s good to give the other side a shot once in a while. These people are always white, but they don’t hate minorities. They are just exercising the white privilege of disengaging from politics knowing they’ll probably come out OK either way. ---
**Author:** ![pjacks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@pjacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pjacks)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2020, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/111 "2020-05-09T17:22:53Z")
> [@Sdowiat](#): > > Right at HALF the people in America voted for him… Including the vast majority who live in “Middle America”, and yet you don’t understand why they would have done that? > > You need to get out of the bubble that you live in and mingle a bit with the backbone of America. There’s going to be a LOT MORE than just this that you will become enlightened to. Seriously. 27% of voting eligible adults voted for him. I feel fine dismissing them & their beliefs. What’s more concerning is why the Democrats can’t cobble together enough votes to beat a quarter of the population who backed an obvious con man. Watch Joe fail to do it again this yet, with help from our brilliant Electoral College. ---
**Author:** ![pjacks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@pjacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pjacks)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2020, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/112 "2020-05-09T17:36:22Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I have some acquaintances who are poorly informed in general about politics. They don’t like to admit this, so they retreat to anodyne observations that neither side is perfect, we ought to be talking to each other, and it’s good to give the other side a shot once in a while. > > These people are always white, but they don’t hate minorities. They are just exercising the white privilege of disengaging from politics knowing they’ll probably come out OK either way. White Americans have higher rates of voting than non-white Americans. They’re not the ones disengaging from politics. But keep lecturing white people about their privilege- Trump could use a few more white working class voters switching sides in the Midwest before November. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2020, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/113 "2020-05-09T18:27:53Z")
I have some acquaintances who are poorly informed in general about politics. They don’t like to admit this, so they retreat to anodyne observations that neither side is perfect, we ought to be talking to each other, and it’s good to give the other side a shot once in a while. These people are always white, but they don’t hate minorities. They are just exercising the white privilege of disengaging from politics knowing they’ll probably come out OK either way. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2020, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/114 "2020-05-09T18:34:55Z")
> [@pjacks](#): > > White Americans have higher rates of voting than non-white Americans. They’re not the ones disengaging from politics. But keep lecturing white people about their privilege- Trump could use a few more white working class voters switching sides in the Midwest before November. Seems to me **HMS** is referring to a specific set of acquaintances rather than voters in general. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2020, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/115 "2020-05-09T18:52:37Z")
> [@Sdowiat](#): > > Right at HALF the people in America voted for him… Including the vast majority who live in “Middle America”, and yet you don’t understand why they would have done that? > > You need to get out of the bubble that you live in and mingle a bit with the backbone of America. There’s going to be a LOT MORE than just this that you will become enlightened to. Seriously. I’ve spent a little time in the “backbone” of America. They strike me as pretty dismissive of the “liberal elites”. So how about you drop this hard-done-by Middle America bullshit pretense? Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2020, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/116 "2020-05-09T19:38:16Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Seems to me **HMS** is referring to a specific set of acquaintances rather than voters in general. Right, I’m speaking of a pattern I’ve observed in people I know personally. But I don’t think those people are super-rare or unique. I know Trump has a certain type of base, and a certain type of fringe, and a certain type of nose-holding wedge voter. The people I’m attempting to describe are white people who deliberately avoid self-labeling, and consume little information about politics and current events at all. They seem to prioritize the idea that everybody has a piece of the truth, nobody is as bad as they seem, and anything’s worth trying once. Plus maybe their dad owns a gun or worked in a steel mill or something. I think that perspective got a lot of people to a neutral or experimentally supportive position on Trump. Then Trump did a bunch of stupid and horrendous shit, which they missed because they aren’t actively seeking out that kind of information. The left is very angry, which is impossible to miss. Because this underengaged middle is missing the information explaining why everybody is mad at their guy, they dig even deeper into their worldview. They’re not radicalizing, but they’re more skeptical than ever of the left. All of it hinges on being underinformed and being firmly committed to the principle that people are mostly good and partially right. ---
**Author:** ![Sdowiat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Sdowiat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sdowiat)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2020, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/117 "2020-05-10T01:03:09Z")
> [@pjacks](#): > > 27% of voting eligible adults voted for him. > I feel fine dismissing them & their beliefs. What’s more concerning is why the Democrats can’t cobble together enough votes to beat a quarter of the population who backed an obvious con man. Watch Joe fail to do it again this yet, with help from our brilliant Electoral College. It’s fine to dismiss someones beliefs… Once you know what they are and understand them if you disagree with what you find… But the area in RED covers the VAST majority of the country. If you can’t understand why they would then you are very out of touch with reality and common working class people. > **[2016 US Presidential Election Map By County & Vote Share](https://brilliantmaps.com/2016-county-election-map/)** > > Map created by Magog the Ogre via Wikimedia The map above shows the county level and vote share results of the 2016 US Presidential Election. The darker the blue the more a county went for Hilary Clinton and the darker the red the more the county... ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2020, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/118 "2020-05-10T01:15:30Z")
> [@Sdowiat](#): > > It’s fine to dismiss someones beliefs… Once you know what they are and understand them if you disagree with what you find… But the area in RED covers the VAST majority of the country. If you can’t understand why they would then you are very out of touch with reality and common working class people. What is your understanding of “common working class people”? ETA: And population density, while we’re at it. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2020, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/119 "2020-05-10T02:06:12Z")
> [@Sdowiat](#): > > It’s fine to dismiss someones beliefs… Once you know what they are and understand them if you disagree with what you find… But the area in RED covers the VAST majority of the country. If you can’t understand why they would then you are very out of touch with reality and common working class people. > > [2016 US Presidential Election Map By County & Vote Share](https://brilliantmaps.com/2016-county-election-map/) Acreage doesn’t vote. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2020, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/120 "2020-05-10T02:22:10Z")
> [@Sdowiat](#): > > It’s fine to dismiss someones beliefs… Once you know what they are and understand them if you disagree with what you find… But the area in RED covers the VAST majority of the country. If you can’t understand why they would then you are very out of touch with reality and common working class people. > > [2016 US Presidential Election Map By County & Vote Share](https://brilliantmaps.com/2016-county-election-map/) The area in BLUE covers the vast majority of actual people. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2020, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/121 "2020-05-10T02:48:18Z")
Apologies if it’s been posted, but Nate Silver covered this back in 2016: educated people drove up support for Clinton and uneducated people drove up support for Trump. > **[Education, Not Income, Predicted Who Would Vote For Trump](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/education-not-income-predicted-who-would-vote-for-trump/)** > > Sometimes statistical analysis is tricky, and sometimes a finding just jumps off the page. Here’s one example of the latter. I took a list of all 981 U.S. count… ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2020, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/122 "2020-05-10T03:24:36Z")
Ok, I’ll bite. I voted from Trump and will so again. Not because I like him, but because I didnt like Hillary and I dont like Biden. I wish we had a 3rd choice like a new Ross Perot (Yes, I voted for him). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773.md?page=7)