# What does Middle America see in Donald Trump **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 14, 2020, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773 "2020-04-14T15:31:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2020, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/123 "2020-05-10T06:51:35Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I voted from Trump and will so again. > > Not because I like him, but because I didnt like Hillary and I dont like Biden. 😕 How is that a reason? Personally, I don’t particularly like Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden either. But it’s obvious on well-documented empirical grounds that Trump is far more ignorant, mendacious, destructive, irresponsible, malicious, delusional, incompetent and unethical than either of them. So if it’s a choice between one of them and Trump, it would obviously be thoroughly stupid and reckless to choose Trump. I can’t fathom the mindset behind the attitude _“Because I just don’t like these people, I’m going to support a candidate who is a far worse leader and human being than either of them”_. How can you let your personal feelings of dislike dominate your sense of responsibility as a citizen to that extent? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2020, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/124 "2020-05-10T07:15:50Z")
[Trump violates his own definition of “leadership” every chance he gets.](https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/398887965302091776?lang=en) He’s no leader and he doesn’t give a shit about anyone other than himself. He does give a shit about your vote, though, although you as a citizen are expendable. Which he has clearly demonstrated by his mishandling of this entire virus situation. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2020, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/125 "2020-05-10T07:33:18Z")
Congrats on helping elect the anti-JFK, I guess. “Who cares what I can do for the country? What’s in it for _me?_” ---
**Author:** ![GoodOmens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@GoodOmens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GoodOmens)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2020, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/126 "2020-05-10T10:44:29Z")
> [@pjacks](#): > > White Americans have higher rates of voting than non-white Americans. They’re not the ones disengaging from politics. But keep lecturing white people about their privilege- Trump could use a few more white working class voters switching sides in the Midwest before November. Yes, and White Americans are more likely to have access to resources (transportation, time off from work, child care, etc.) which allows us the option to vote. The fact that White Americans vote in larger numbers than other groups doesn’t automatically indicate that they are more politically engaged in any meaningful way. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2020, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/127 "2020-05-10T15:05:26Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > You have been living in a bubble too long - and it’s a bubble even within NYC. Don’t feel to bad- most people do. But I’m going to guess you don’t spend a lot of time talking to 50-70 year old white guys who didn’t go to college. From here on, I’m speaking about the ones I know, who may not be a representative sample. They’re Archie Bunker transported to 2020 , although they’ve learned not to say (or sometimes even think) the most offensive things Archie said. But what “MAGA” means to them is bringing back a world where a loading dock foreman can own a single-family house \* and support a wife who doesn’t work outside the home and a daughter and later an unemployed son-in-law. They aren’t _exactly_ racist - they wouldn’t have a problem if a black foreman could do the same but at the same time they aren’t exactly _not_ racist because every time a black guy gets the foreman position they will blame it on affirmative action. They feel like Trump is one of them, because for all his money, he still has lower-middle class tastes in a lot of ways. And for some reason that’s not clear to me, they seem to think they are going to become very rich one day - I’ve had a couple go on to me about the “death tax”, and when I asked if they expected to leave a multi-million dollar estate, their reply was essentially “It could happen”. They’re very authoritarian when they agree with the authority but dismiss authorities with whom they disagree . This is how you get people who said " Not my president" about Obama but believe that everyone in the US should respect Trump personally simply because he is the president. I even know a number of allegedly devout Catholics who basically said the Pope needed to stay in his lane when he criticized the wall and had the deer in the headlights look when I asked " Isn’t everything in the Pope’s lane?". Yes, I’m familiar with the type. Proud “Backbone of America” types with no education who have rarely been more than 60 miles from where they grew up (unless it was part of military service). They don’t know anything but they have strong opinions and resist any change as an “attack on their freedoms”. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2020, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/128 "2020-05-10T15:23:42Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > How can you let your personal feelings of dislike dominate your sense of responsibility as a citizen to that extent? A large percentage of the population does this. They do it for the same reason they buy some bullshit piece of crap thing advertised on an infomercial at 2:00 am. For the same reason they think “The Apprentice” is real. For the same reason they believe bullshit posts that the Facebook and YouTube algorithms send to their screens. The have low critical thinking skills and are susceptible to propaganda. _ **That’s the whole basis of Trump’s political survival** _. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2020, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/129 "2020-05-10T16:23:59Z")
> [@GoodOmens](#): > > Yes, and White Americans are more likely to have access to resources (transportation, time off from work, child care, etc.) which allows us the option to vote. The fact that White Americans vote in larger numbers than other groups doesn’t automatically indicate that they are more politically engaged in any meaningful way. Black turnout is almost as high as white turnout. Probably because black people realize politics affects them deeply (slavery, Jim crow, police brutality, affordable health care, good jobs etc are very political in nature) Asian and Latino turnout is low though. [https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/i5QPnR4-Dr2-mMyN51AKkzssT9nuyYYHyWuVocM9ahdhonVq-PCgbwsIulJTAvClUHo8YzrrjvES9pxR8AqCUewKEQWjjRVX1CfjKBqhJARjm65gB4ZUitK1YzrOLwB-7awDsMaXT3nnfFTCe7N4hjqoY5twGGO3NiACoKdUcM\_5](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/i5QPnR4-Dr2-mMyN51AKkzssT9nuyYYHyWuVocM9ahdhonVq-PCgbwsIulJTAvClUHo8YzrrjvES9pxR8AqCUewKEQWjjRVX1CfjKBqhJARjm65gB4ZUitK1YzrOLwB-7awDsMaXT3nnfFTCe7N4hjqoY5twGGO3NiACoKdUcM_5) ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2020, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/130 "2020-05-10T17:05:10Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > He’s no leader and he doesn’t give a shit about anyone other than himself. He does give a shit about your vote, though, although you as a citizen are expendable. Which he has clearly demonstrated by his mishandling of this entire virus situation. [As I was saying…](https://www.patheos.com/blogs/dispatches/2020/05/10/trump-gets-daily-covid-tests-doesnt-think-others-should-have-testing/) ---
**Author:** ![Sdowiat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Sdowiat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sdowiat)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/131 "2020-05-11T11:54:36Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I’ve spent a little time in the “backbone” of America. They strike me as pretty dismissive of the “liberal elites”. So how about you drop this hard-done-by Middle America bullshit pretense? Seriously. The question was "What has Trump done for MIDDLE America. It wasn’t about liberal elites. Those people in red ARE the backbone of America. Most recently, while most people in the blue have been holed up hiding from infection, most of the people in Red have been working. And a LOT of that work has been simply to supply the people in Blue with gasoline, electricity, food and basic supplies so that the necessaries of life can continue instead of the whole system crashing into Anarchy. Seriously… If you want the votes from the people in Red ( which you obviously need ) a really good first step would be to stop viewing them with such disdain. Would YOU vote for someone who you know views you that way? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/132 "2020-05-11T14:14:28Z")
> [@Sdowiat](#): > > {…} Those people in red ARE the backbone of America. Most recently, while most people in the blue have been holed up hiding from infection, most of the people in Red have been working. And a LOT of that work has been simply to supply the people in Blue with gasoline, electricity, food and basic supplies so that the necessaries of life can continue instead of the whole system crashing into Anarchy. > > Seriously… If you want the votes from the people in Red ( which you obviously need ) a really good first step would be to stop viewing them with such disdain. Would YOU vote for someone who you know views you that way? A really good first step would be to stop viewing ‘them’ with such disdain. You first. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/133 "2020-05-11T14:45:27Z")
According to 538, Trump’s approval rate is at about 43%, after all of his catastrophic Handling of this crisis and his constantly denying that he said and did things that are well documented, 43% still approve. I think we need to forget about reaching these people, or pretending we don’t understand them. We understand them perfectly well, their motivations are exactly what we were afraid they were. We need to defeat them, not win them over. Nominating an old white man that talks in old school platitudes helps, maybe we can get some of them to flip, maybe more will stay home if there’s not a person of color to vote against and then when we get control of the government, we need to dismantle the voter suppression mechanisms they established. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/134 "2020-05-11T15:52:27Z")
> [@Sdowiat](#): > > The question was "What has Trump done for MIDDLE America. It wasn’t about liberal elites. > > Those people in red ARE the backbone of America. Most recently, while most people in the blue have been holed up hiding from infection, most of the people in Red have been working. And a LOT of that work has been simply to supply the people in Blue with gasoline, electricity, food and basic supplies so that the necessaries of life can continue instead of the whole system crashing into Anarchy. > > Seriously… If you want the votes from the people in Red ( which you obviously need ) a really good first step would be to stop viewing them with such disdain. Would YOU vote for someone who you know views you that way? I asked you to explain your definition of “common working class people” and what differentiates the working classes in the middle from the working classes on the coasts. I also asked you if you understood that geographical size of an area is not an indication of population size. I guess you don’t want to address that. Okay, maybe you can explain to everyone “what Trump has done for MIDDLE America”. Has he created more coal mining jobs? Has he brought back manufacturing? Has he provided healthcare? Higher incomes? Has he done a damn thing for MIDDLE America except to appeal to their sense of insecurity and encouraged their disdain for minorities and liberals? Sure, he threw them a pittance of a tax break. Benefits of which most low income Americans never saw. Trump has rabble roused the Reds. But in no way has he improved their lives in any meaningful way. He’s done the opposite, in fact. He’s made them a laughing stock, nationally and internationally. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/135 "2020-05-11T15:54:50Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > Because that’s part and parcel of being the boss: you pay your dues, and pretty soon it’s _you_ making bank off the labor of others. Conservatives fight to preserve this order because many of them see themselves as one day being rewarded by it. (note- this isn’t how I feel, but I do know a lot of conservative types, and have grown up in a conservative area) I think this is part of it- a lot of conservative types are, or aspire to be small business owners, and maybe if the dice roll well, medium or large business owners. Like maybe starting out as a one-man plumbing business, and ending up with a dozen or more plumbers under you in your company. Or owning some dry cleaning shops, or maybe a general contracting business. So they tend to view policies that increase taxes, regulation, or other burdens on businesses as a direct threat to their future prosperity- at best, things like increased environmental regulations are viewed as making it a little bit harder to achieve their goals, and at worst, as a direct attack on their livelihoods. The government is generally viewed as an antagonistic force- one that takes tax money, isn’t perceived as providing services/benefits in proportion to that tax money that was taken, and that tends to levy unnecessary or disproportionate regulations on all sorts of stuff that isn’t their business (in their perception). So when they hear about people in the inner city needing MORE welfare, or more social programs, or anything like that, they severely bridle at it. They feel like they’re already paying a lot in taxes and getting little in return, while the inner city crowd (who also happens to have a different skin color) sucks up the difference, wants more, and cries about their treatment. Now it’s all a matter of perspective- we know that the last paragraph isn’t true, or isn’t true in the way that the conservatives are perceiving it. But they don’t necessarily have any way of knowing- from their perspective, they (conservatives in the suburbs or rural areas) are working hard, trying to provide for their families, and become prosperous, all while the government keeps siphoning off a large proportion of their income as tax, and outside of police, fire and essential services, doesn’t really do much in return. They don’t get WIC, they don’t get Medicaid, they don’t get food stamps, they don’t get electricity or water assistance either. Their children aren’t getting free lunches at school or free school supplies either. All they see themselves getting is the essential shared services that everyone gets, and feeling like they’re getting a raw deal on that, because there’s a large chunk of people who use that and don’t pay taxes, and suck up resources for other stuff like medicaid, free lunches, etc… And on top of it, they have higher crime rates, higher teen pregnancies, etc… all of which is viewed as both symptoms and causes of the problem. It’s not so much a lack of compassion, as it’s a feeling of unfairness that then mutates into hostility and disdain/condescension. It’s almost always as a group conception- not individual racism in most cases. So when Trump shows up and basically says “Fuck those people” in so many ways, they’re all on board- he’s basically saying he agrees with them, and is doing things to remedy this. The reason they’re so hostile toward (white middle class) liberals, is because they view liberals as enabling this behavior and actively working against their prosperity in favor of this other crowd (blacks, mexicans, white trash) who don’t act like they should. There does seem to be an element of racism here- I definitely perceive a bit of a betrayal feeling, like white liberals are not sticking up for their own somehow. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/136 "2020-05-11T16:03:05Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Ok, I’ll bite. > > I voted from Trump and will so again. > > Not because I like him, but because I didnt like Hillary and I dont like Biden. > > I wish we had a 3rd choice like a new Ross Perot (Yes, I voted for him). I can understand that sometimes an election is about who you dislike the least, not who you like the most. But in terms of what you find less bad about Trump – are you talking (primarily) about policies? Personality / temperament? Party identity? Cultural identity? Something else? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/137 "2020-05-11T16:39:55Z")
> [@Sdowiat](#): > > The question was "What has Trump done for MIDDLE America. It wasn’t about liberal elites. > > Those people in red ARE the backbone of America. Most recently, while most people in the blue have been holed up hiding from infection, most of the people in Red have been working. And a LOT of that work has been simply to supply the people in Blue with gasoline, electricity, food and basic supplies so that the necessaries of life can continue instead of the whole system crashing into Anarchy. > > Seriously… If you want the votes from the people in Red ( which you obviously need ) a really good first step would be to stop viewing them with such disdain. Would YOU vote for someone who you know views you that way? The issue is that it is fundamentally about race. There are minority-majority rural counties. They aren’t everwhere but there are counties that are very rural where the majority of citizens are black, latino, asian, indian, etc. Those counties all lean blue. Its not just rural counties, its particularly white rural counties. We’re engaging in all these mental gymnastics to avoid occams razor. Lots of white christians feel America is ‘theirs’ and they don’t like the fact that America is rapidly become more multicultural, multiracial, egalitarian and diverse. Even the issue of immigration is probably to a large degree about race. Like when Trump said he wanted immigrants from Sweden. He seemed more comfortable with white immigrants with European backgrounds rather than brown skinned ones from latin America. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/138 "2020-05-11T17:54:44Z")
Nitpick: it was Norway that he wanted people from. It’s all about race, what his supporters get from Trump is permission to be overtly racist without having to feel bad about it. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/139 "2020-05-11T19:12:30Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Nitpick: it was Norway that he wanted people from. > > It’s all about race, what his supporters get from Trump is permission to be overtly racist without having to feel bad about it. Sweden, Norway… they all look the same to them. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/140 "2020-05-11T19:23:45Z")
I have friends from Norway so I can’t be nativist. They even let me call them Fjellabes. They said I’m allowed to use that word because I’m one of the good ones. Yes, I don’t agree with their culture and I think a lot of their problems are self imposed by their own value system.If they focused more on hard work and less on their music I think it could be a beautiful culture. But its not for me to judge. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/141 "2020-05-11T19:29:32Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Sweden, Norway… they all look the same to them. It’s relevant because Trump had just met with the prime minister of Norway shortly before he made the comment, that’s how his brain works, it fixates on the last thing he saw. The Norway immigrants comment was part of his “shithole countries” rant and it’s all you need to know about Trump or his supporters. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773/142 "2020-05-12T07:55:08Z")
> [@Sdowiat](#): > > The question was "What has Trump done for MIDDLE America. It wasn’t about liberal elites. > > Those people in red ARE the backbone of America. Most recently, while most people in the blue have been holed up hiding from infection, most of the people in Red have been working. And a LOT of that work has been simply to supply the people in Blue with gasoline, electricity, food and basic supplies so that the necessaries of life can continue instead of the whole system crashing into Anarchy. > > Seriously… If you want the votes from the people in Red ( which you obviously need ) a really good first step would be to stop viewing them with such disdain. Would YOU vote for someone who you know views you that way? But again, that still doesn’t explain how those Backbone of America people identify with Donald Trump, a trust fund billionaire from New York City. It’s like there is this tautology in conservative’s minds - That Liberals and Democrats are everything that is “wrong” with America. Regardless of what they do or say or what data shows or how their policies align with regular people. Therefore, conservatives will vote for whoever is the most “anti-Democrats”. And no one is more hated by Democrats than Donald Trump. I mean even your statement is completely absurd. That there is some hard “red/blue” line between who is working “essential jobs” vs who is holed up in their suburban homes? Ridiculous. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-middle-america-see-in-donald-trump/851773.md?page=8)