What does my daughter need to disclose about being fired?

[Grrr]

@muldoonthief

Many health care positions have a bunch of “one strike and you’re out” rules for liability reasons.

Illegal, as in a criminal offense? That’s been done to death on the boards. There’s no state or federal law preventing an employer from telling anyone almost anything about your employment with them. There may be union agreements, and confidentiality agreements, and contracts, and even in their absence most companies these days have policies about releasing information in order to avoid a civil lawsuit. But if you can find a case of an employer in the USA facing criminal charges for revealing that a former employee was fired, I’ll eat my hat.

Well, like I said, I was only 90% sure. So thank you for setting me straight on that.

[Tess]

I just got hired for a new position after being fired from my last job.

The application specifically asked if I had ever been fired (or quit because I knew I was about to be). I said yes and, when asked by the interviewer, gave a short answer similar to sven’s example.

I went to complete some HR forms this week and the interviewer told me part of the reason he selected me was that I was honest about being fired and took responsibility for what happened. From what he said, there are plenty of applicants who get cut because it’s clear they’re lying when they say they’ve never been fired (multiple jobs lasting a few months each, abrupt gaps in their work histories, etc.).

[Sally_Mander]

@even_sven

If you are pressed further, tell the story honestly, with an emphasis on what you have learned. Something along the lines of "I will be straightforward with you. I was asked to resign after a violation of policy. I was working over the night shift, and a coworker fell asleep on the clock. I made a judgement call and waited until morning, when I would have time to fully document the incident without disrupting service, to report it. Unfortunately, this was determined to be against policy. I feel terrible about the incident, as I feel strongly about giving my best to my work. But I have come away with a stronger appreciation for the importance of having clear and consistent policies. I would like to invite you to speak to my former supervisor, who speak to the quality of my work.

@Tracijo67

As a hiring supervisor, this disclosure would be an immediate red flag to me, even more so than performance issues.

I would be far more understanding of: “Yes, I was terminated from my last position. I unintentionally violated a workplace policy by not reporting a colleague for sleeping during the night shift. It was a mistake, and I have since learned that it is my responsibility to familiarize myself with rules and responsibilities right away.”

Although both of these examples say the same thing, I’d go with the short and sweet version. Keep it simple. If asked for details, provide them, but keep the initial story short and to the point.

[Ulf_the_Unwashed]

Thanks very much for the responses. Just so we’re clear, the agency considers falling-asleep-on-the-job to be a form of abuse, and so not reporting a sleeper-on-the-job is considered failure to report abuse, which they take quite seriously. As it happens, she would’ve been better off not reporting it at all; who would’ve known if not for her? That’s what gets me about the thing.

I don’t know exactly what happened to the sleeper (firing/suspension/whatever).

Also, the question arose from looking at some of the job applications my daughter was filling out, some of which asked directly “Have you ever been fired?” and some of which didn’t, but asked about reason for leaving the last job. She wouldn’t mix and match–it’s one road or the other, not both. I was leaning toward full disclosure–I see that several (though not all) of you agree. We shall see–

Lots of food for thought–thanks again, folks!

[Tracijo67]

@Sally_Mander

Although both of these examples say the same thing, I’d go with the short and sweet version. Keep it simple. If asked for details, provide them, but keep the initial story short and to the point.

A good hiring manager/supervisor will probe for clarifying details, and if they don’t, thoughtful hires are probably not high on their priority list (hence, a red flag that it may not be the greatest place to work), so yes, I’d keep it simple. But I like the phrase “I made a judgment call” especially if followed by acknowledgement that it was a mistake, and a lesson was learned.

I’m in the disclose it camp. I wouldn’t encourage this if your daughter was the one fired for sleeping on the job or let go for poor performance/attendance issues, etc. Even at that, if directly asked in a way that doesn’t allow for the ambiguity of “it just wasn’t a good fit for either of us” the truth should be told, and mitigated as much as possible by what was learned from the experience. I am often surprised by how many people just do not interview well, discounting obvious nervous tics (which happen to a lot of people and are very understandable), so many people just blurt out very short canned responses as if they’d rather be anywhere but sitting across from me. Your daughter has an example of a very unfortunate incident that can be given a powerfully positive spin that highlights humility, willingness to learn from mistakes, honesty and personal accountability.

I do agree that if the question isn’t asked, she probably shouldn’t offer to divulge what happened.

[DrDeth]

Was she actually fired for cause? Has she filed for UC and been denied?

In many cases the employee thinks they were fired, when they were just laid off or let go.

[TokyoBayer]

@Ulf_the_Unwashed

Just so we’re clear, the agency considers falling-asleep-on-the-job to be a form of abuse, and so not reporting a sleeper-on-the-job is considered failure to report abuse, which they take quite seriously. As it happens, she would’ve been better off not reporting it at all; who would’ve known if not for her? That’s what gets me about the thing.

Thanks for the clarification.

I’m not in the medical field, but that wouldn’t seem to be that large of a problem for the next employer.

She had a different understanding of the rules, and which understanding would probably be the more common. Falling asleep = abuse? Really? So is being 5 minutes late for work, then. Or overstaying a coffee break. That’s stretching it, IMHO, but that’s life.

The important point for her is for her to be able to calmly and factually explain what happened. "The agency said that this was abuse and they have a zero tolerance for that policy. My understanding was that this fell into a different category, and I followed the established procedures for that category.

I have since learned to clarify anything which I’m unsure of."

Reasonable places of employment will understand this.

I would not recommend hiding it as that becomes a separate issue itself.*

*In full disclosure, I’ve lied on resumes myself, to which I got the job and no one was the wiser. But each person has to decide for them self.

[Evil_Captor]

@Justin_Bailey

I am not a lawyer, but as a supervisor, if someone wrote on their application that they quit a job because they were looking for full time work and I later found out they were actually fired, there would be a very serious discussion about their continued employment.

Would you hire a person that has been fired for the reason cited?

[Justin_Bailey]

@Evil_Captor

Would you hire a person that has been fired for the reason cited?

Probably. Provided everything else went well, I don’t think it would be a dealbreaker.

[chappachula]

On the issue of answering the question “have you ever been fired?”:
If you answer ‘yes’–won’t the computer automatically throw your application into the trash can?
You may never get a chance to explain yourself.

[Evil_Captor]

@Justin_Bailey

Probably. Provided everything else went well, I don’t think it would be a dealbreaker.

Between her and another equally qualified person who has never been fired, or at least is willing to say so on a job application, who would you hire?

[turtlescanfly]

@muldoonthief

Illegal, as in a criminal offense? That’s been done to death on the boards. There’s no state or federal law preventing an employer from telling anyone almost anything about your employment with them. There may be union agreements, and confidentiality agreements, and contracts, and even in their absence most companies these days have policies about releasing information in order to avoid a civil lawsuit. But if you can find a case of an employer in the USA facing criminal charges for revealing that a former employee was fired, I’ll eat my hat.

Agreed. My previous job as a corporate trainer involved teaching several courses in employment law. Many of my students came into the class under the impression that it was illegal to divulge this kind of information; in actuality it was just our policy to not discuss a former employee’s employment with anyone (as stated above, to limit our risk of a civil lawsuit). Some people even extended that erroneous thinking to imagine that it was illegal even to ASK a former employer if someone was fired. Not true. Ask anything you want, you just might not get an answer (but then again, you might at that).

Advice for the OP: best answer already provided by even sven.