# What does "no substitutions" mean on a slow food menu. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 9, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562 "2013-06-09T16:54:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562/181 "2013-06-24T00:09:56Z")
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:179, topic:660562”] I’m curious how old you three are. I started working at a McDonald’s when I was in high school in 1974. We were told to honor (almost) all special orders. I regularly made fries without salt, double quarter pounders (before they were on the menu), burgers with nonstandard mixes of condiments, and more. So they’ve been just as customizable as Burger King for close to 40 years. [/QUOTE] In 1974 those were still known as ‘grill’ orders. You could get whatever you wanted, but you’d have to wait until the next batch of burgers came off the grill when they were busy because everything already cooked was already wrapped up with standard ingredients. Burger King was cooking their burgers on demand using that conveyor belt broiler thing, and then assembling them according to each order. It was necessarily faster, but it looked they were better prepared. Now they all have precooked burger patties or use a flash cooking system that only takes a few seconds to undercook or overcook the burger. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562/182 "2013-06-24T00:18:11Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > [quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:179, topic:660562”] > > 1. Serve uncooked meat (people sometimes asked for raw burgers for their dogs) > 2. Serve burgers without the bun > 3. Put mustard and tartar sauce on the same sandwich OK, number 1 I get. Number 2, I guess I could maybe understand. But what the hell is up with 3? [/QUOTE] I asked about that. I was told that someone had gotten extremely ill from mixing mustard and tartar sauce and McDonald’s was terrified of a lawsuit. I don’t know if that was nationwide, just our area, or just our specific restaurant. > [@TriPolar](#): > > In 1974 those were still known as ‘grill’ orders. You could get whatever you wanted, but you’d have to wait until the next batch of burgers came off the grill when they were busy because everything already cooked was already wrapped up with standard ingredients. Quite true. That’s why so many people placed special orders. It assured that you would get fresh food instead of something that had spent 10 minutes under a heat lamp. I remember someone who said their doctor had put them on a low-sodium diet and they required salt-free fries. I had to clean the tray we dumped into and prepare their fries very carefully to avoid getting salt on them. Then the customer grabbed a handful of salt packets from the condiment bar and sat at the table salting the fries. I was annoyed, but couldn’t say anything. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562/183 "2013-06-24T00:39:21Z")
A bit of weirdness: At one of my cooking jobs, back around 1990-91, I had one waitress who had special requests _on every damn ticket_ she handed to the kitchen. All the other waitresses would have the _occasional_ special order, but this one waitress had them _every single time_. Nobody could explain it. The kitchen manager was convinced that she was taking the orders and then asking, “Are you sure you want tomatoes on that?” “Are you sure you want onions?” “Can we leave off the mayo for you?” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562/184 "2013-06-24T00:40:49Z")
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:182, topic:660562”] I remember someone who said their doctor had put them on a low-sodium diet and they required salt-free fries. I had to clean the tray we dumped into and prepare their fries very carefully to avoid getting salt on them. Then the customer grabbed a handful of salt packets from the condiment bar and sat at the table salting the fries. I was annoyed, but couldn’t say anything. [/QUOTE] Heh. That’s how I was taught in the early 90s to get fresh-from-the-fryer fries by a former McDonald’s employee: ask for them without salt. I didn’t care enough to try it, as the fries they had lined up for everyone instantly were more than good enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562/185 "2013-06-24T01:01:28Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > That kept me away from McDonalds for many years, given that I don’t like relish. I don’t recall McDonalds puting relish on their burgers. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562/186 "2013-06-24T01:25:22Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I don’t recall McDonalds puting relish on their burgers. Probably thinking of the dill pickle. I can’t think of any McD’s hamburgers with relish, either, except maybe if you consider the special sauce of the Big Mac containing relish. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562/187 "2013-06-25T01:40:18Z")
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:182, topic:660562”] I asked about that. I was told that someone had gotten extremely ill from mixing mustard and tartar sauce and McDonald’s was terrified of a lawsuit. I don’t know if that was nationwide, just our area, or just our specific restaurant. [/QUOTE] Or maybe they didn’t want you to find out that was all their “special sauce” really was… ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562/188 "2013-06-25T15:20:21Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I don’t recall McDonalds puting relish on their burgers. Relish is one of the ingredients in Thousand Island dressing, whcih is what they put on Big Macs. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562/189 "2013-06-25T15:52:57Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Probably thinking of the dill pickle. Yup. I confused relish for pickle. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562/190 "2013-06-25T16:11:52Z")
Threads like this often take twists and turns, Before long, we get disgruntled customers complaining that chefs and restaurant managers are arrogant jerks who know nothing about good manners or customer service, and chefs/restaurant managers who sneer that customers are either cheap/greedy chiselers who want something for nothing or philistines who don’t appreciate good food. In my experience, neither of those gripes is fair, from EITHER side. Most restaurant personnel WANT to make their customers happy, and are perfectly willing to accommodate small requests. MOST Italian restaurant won’t put up a fight if a customer requests penne pasta (provided it’s available) instead of vermicelli. Most Mexican restaurants are fine with giving you extra Spanish rice instead of refried beans, if you ask nicely. Waitresses DON’T generally like telling their customers to go jump in the lake. And most customers don’t go to a restaurant intending to be a pain in the butt! Most people just want a decent meal and a pleasant experience. 96% of the time, nice people get a nice server and a nice meal, and leave a nice tip. But that leaves a small percentage of jerky customers and/or jerky restaurant staff. And the jerks tend to stand out in our memory. But as I said, as a rule, restaurants TRY to please their customers. When a menu says “No Substitutions,” there’s usually a perfectly sound, practical reason for that. If a restaurant that draws a huge lunchtime crowd offers an Express Lunch, chances are, they’ve made up a lot of plates ahead of time. At THAT point, asking for substitutions is a major pain- they’re trying to serve a LOT of people FAST. What would seem like a perfectly small, reasonable request at a different restaurant or at a different time of day may NOT be during lunch hour. MOST of the time, servers should cheerfully accede to small substiutions, and most of the time they DO. And when that’s not feasible, customers should accept that with a cheerful, “Oh well, couldn’t hurt to ask.” And most of them DO. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562.md?page=9)