# What does "no substitutions" mean on a slow food menu. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 9, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562 "2013-06-09T16:54:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562/141 "2013-06-13T17:17:18Z")
> [@brad\_d](#): > > Or… > > If for some reason I decided that I wanted a Primanti’s Jumbo Baloney and Cheese with fries and cole slaw on the side, one quick swipe of a fork after lifting the bun would be an expedient after-market modification. I employ something similar often against tomatoes. Unless Primanti’s slaw is uncommonly solid this wouldn’t be an option for me. I’d still be able to taste the slaw juice. It’s partly psychosomatic: when I get mustard on my burger by mistake and I send it back I get annoyed at the little bit of mustard that is legitimately in the pickles, so I’d be able to taste any stray remnants of slaw juice even if I wouldn’t be able to if I hadn’t know it used to have slaw on it. ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562/142 "2013-06-13T20:22:18Z")
> [@bump](#): > > “Thisist” as in in the school of Herve This, or something different? > > Just curious, since I haven’t heard that term before. Yes, I should have put a [link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herv%C3%A9_This) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562/143 "2013-06-13T20:37:32Z")
> [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](#): > > Yes, I should have put a [link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herv%C3%A9_This) Oh, molecular gastronomy. Never heard it referred to as “Thisist” cooking before. Learn something every day. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562/144 "2013-06-13T21:04:39Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Keller is truly a wonderful chef. I’ve never made it to The French Laundry, but I’ve eaten at [Bouchon](http://bouchonbistro.com/lv-menu). Well worth the money. Man I would absolutely crush everything on that menu (if I could afford it)! Looks awesome. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562/145 "2013-06-13T21:39:27Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Oh, molecular gastronomy. Never heard it referred to as “Thisist” cooking before. Learn something every day. Me too! Speaking of molecular gastronomy, I’m planning on getting the spherification gear so I can wow and amaze my niece and nephew in a month or so. They live in a house where it’s meat & potatoes, and Tex-Mex is exotic, and this is in Austin. (my brother-in-law is the most unadventurous eater I’ve ever heard of). ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562/146 "2013-06-13T21:47:59Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > **Screeches brakes** Hang on, hang on, I don’t get that bit about your sister. Slow Food restaurants are, by their very nature, champions of ‘local’ cuisine. That’s the whole point of the movement. I think that’s supposed to be read ‘I go to a slow food restaurant about once a month, unless my foodie sister is around, in which case, I go a lot more often’. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562/147 "2013-06-13T22:01:29Z")
(That said, I agree with madmonk that ‘slow food’ is just being used as a counterpoint to ‘fast food’, not to mean the actual slow food movement.) ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562/148 "2013-06-14T03:33:16Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Unless Primanti’s slaw is uncommonly solid this wouldn’t be an option for me. I’d still be able to taste the slaw juice. It’s partly psychosomatic: when I get mustard on my burger by mistake and I send it back I get annoyed at the little bit of mustard that is legitimately in the pickles, so I’d be able to taste any stray remnants of slaw juice even if I wouldn’t be able to if I hadn’t know it used to have slaw on it. I’d have to skip Primanti’s altogether. I _hate_ cole slaw. ---
**Author:** ![Uther\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Uther\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uther_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562/149 "2013-06-14T04:47:32Z")
I can absolute accept if a restaurant does not do substitutions. I might not return or even just leave if no item on the menu sounds appetizing as it stands, but I would bear no grudge. But there is one thing I absolutely loathe: IF I have have explained that for medical reasons certain ingredients might harm or even kill me and the waiter has confirmed that they can be left out, then I expect that this will be the case. The waiter has to ask first in the kitchen? Fine, I can wait. It is not possible because to much is pre-made? Life sucks, but thanks, anyway. But DON’T give me a false positive. And I do not care if the waiter was to eager for a sale or if he just forgot to inform the cook(s) or if the kitchen staff was too arrogant too “ruin” their dish by leaving anything out that can SEND ME TO THE F\*\*\*ING ER. Just don’t. The most incane case happened when I smelled a Forbidden Item before tasting it. I pointedly asked for the manager, he came and in hushed voice informed me that the cook was “a real artist from Italy - you know how temperamental they can be - who does not believe in allergies, so we do not speak about such things here.” Are you stupid? Fire him before he can kill a customer! Sorry, hijacking over. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562/150 "2013-06-14T05:28:08Z")
[QUOTE=Ludovic] Unless Primanti’s slaw is uncommonly solid this wouldn’t be an option for me. I’d still be able to taste the slaw juice. It’s partly psychosomatic: when I get mustard on my burger by mistake and I send it back I get annoyed at the little bit of mustard that is legitimately in the pickles, so I’d be able to taste any stray remnants of slaw juice even if I wouldn’t be able to if I hadn’t know it used to have slaw on it. [/QUOTE] > [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > I’d have to skip Primanti’s altogether. I _hate_ cole slaw. Not to get too far off topic but isn’t Primanti’s slaw vinegar-based as opposed to mayo-based? I can imagine that would make quite a difference taste-wise (especially since a vinegar-based slaw would go together better with the fries on the sandwich than one made from mayonnaise). Incidentally, I’ve never been to Pittsburgh. Thus, one of my more modest goals in life is to eat a Primanti’s sandwich if I ever find myself in Steeltown. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562/151 "2013-06-14T10:09:01Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I don’t think the OP is using the term slow food to mean a locally sourced artisinal restaurant, but rather he is using slow food to mean not fast food. I could be mistaken though. > > There is a trend for many places to have smaller menus. They do a few things very well and don’t venture outside of that zone. I hesitate to even call it a trend because it is how a lot of places have been doing it for decades. Places like that often don’t do subsitutions because they keep smaller, fresher inventories and simply don’t have the resources to anticipate every possible subsitution request. If you are used to mass produced food from bigger kitchens, the attitude of smaller places might seem snobbish, but I don’t think that is their intent usually. > > ETA, there are even some places that offer one set menu for the night, everyone in the place is pretty much eating the exact same meal. Yeah, I know. Slow Food is a [specific movement](http://www.slowfood.com/), created originally in Italy, with the precise intent of championing local sourced and authentic cuisine, so it sounds weird to say his sister prefers to ‘eat local’ when they’re on vacation. If you go to a local restaurant in Italy, for eg, they will often have a Slow Food sticker in the window, to show they are serving authentic cuisine. I guess I don’t understand what the OP’s sister thinks is different between a Slow Food restaurant and a ‘local’ one, unless the OP is using the term Slow Food to mean something different from the original movement. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562/152 "2013-06-14T12:18:04Z")
silenus: > [@](#): > > Keller is truly a wonderful chef. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562/153 "2013-06-14T16:50:54Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > Not to get too far off topic but isn’t Primanti’s slaw vinegar-based as opposed to mayo-based? I can imagine that would make quite a difference taste-wise (especially since a vinegar-based slaw would go together better with the fries on the sandwich than one made from mayonnaise). > > Incidentally, I’ve never been to Pittsburgh. Thus, one of my more modest goals in life is to eat a Primanti’s sandwich if I ever find myself in Steeltown. I think it is, yeah. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562/154 "2013-06-14T19:23:35Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > I guess I don’t understand what the OP’s sister thinks is different between a Slow Food restaurant and a ‘local’ one, unless the OP is using the term Slow Food to mean something different from the original movement. He’s not saying his sister prefers to eat local over “slow” food, he’s saying that he eats “slow” meals about once a month, unless he’s with his sister, who eats them much more frequently. It’s not clear if he means slow as the Slow Food movement or just as a play on words for sit down meals as opposed to fast food. ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562/155 "2013-06-15T01:13:58Z")
> [@Uther\_Penguin](#): > > The most incane case happened when I smelled a Forbidden Item before tasting it. I pointedly asked for the manager, he came and in hushed voice informed me that the cook was “a real artist from Italy - you know how temperamental they can be - who does not believe in allergies, so we do not speak about such things here.” Are you stupid? Fire him before he can kill a customer! What a great way to get out of doing half your job! I should try that. “I’ll have you know I am a blog artist. I will not take direction from philistines” ---
**Author:** ![NeonMadman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/58f4c7/32.png) [@NeonMadman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NeonMadman)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562/156 "2013-06-15T18:35:21Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Yes, we understand basic market economics. You think the business doesn’t know that not allowing substitutions may cause some customers to go away? If they’re well run, as has been said, it’s a calculated choice they make. And, no, of course you shouldn’t care if a restaurant goes out of business, but they also shouldn’t care too much about how _you_ think the business should be run if they’re filling up seats and saving time and money with their “no substitutions” policy. (The latter being a key point.) If it works for them, great. But as I said, if they can’t (or, more to the point, _won’t_) provide what I want at a price I’m willing to pay, I’ll spend my dollars elsewhere. And I tend to think of myself as being pretty typical. What drives me away is, in my opinion, likely to drive away a significant number of other customers. If they can succeed with the customers that are left, good for them. They can go their way and I’ll go mine. ---
**Author:** ![NeonMadman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/58f4c7/32.png) [@NeonMadman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NeonMadman)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562/157 "2013-06-15T19:04:30Z")
I’m not sure whether I should introduce this aspect to the discussion, but it may explain why I am a bit less sympathetic to restaurant operators than some on this thread. I was involved in restaurant linen supply for many years, and have had to deal with many, many restaurant owners who simply refused to honor the “menu” of services that were provided by the companies I worked for. Restaurant linens are usually supplied on a rental basis, and pricing is set according to inventory rather than usage. If a restaurateur tells me he wants 800 clean napkins on his shelf at all times, he is supposed to pay for 800 napkins, not the 300 that he actually used. But try to tell that to most restaurant owners! Suddenly the concepts that are so clear to them when they price their own menus become completely incomprehensible. Imagine ordering a 16 ounce steak and expecting to pay for the 8 ounce steak because you only ate half of it! But that’s pretty much what these people try to do to their vendors. I can’t rent that extra 500 napkins to anyone else while it’s sitting on their shelves, at their insistence. But if you ask them to pay for what they ordered, they act as if you stuck a gun in their ribs and demanded their wallet! I’ve faced this type of argument even in cases where we were maintaining an inventory of a special color or style that was purchased exclusively for that client, at their demand. I have no other place to get revenue from that linen, even if I make an inventory reduction (in which case it will just sit on my shelf), and I own it because the restaurant owner asked me to buy it for him. But he doesn’t think he should have to pay for it unless he actually turns it over, even though he signed a contract that said he would. It stinks. But it’s economics. If there is a competitor out there who will give him the linen without the inventory charge, then that’s what I have to compete against, because he will go with whoever gives him what he wants at the most favorable price. Pardon me if I apply the same standard to him and if I’m not overly sympathetic about the inconvenience it causes him when I want mashed potatoes with my meal rather than baked. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562/158 "2013-06-15T21:59:26Z")
> [@NeonMadman](#): > > If it works for them, great. But as I said, if they can’t (or, more to the point, _won’t_) provide what I want at a price I’m willing to pay, I’ll spend my dollars elsewhere. And I tend to think of myself as being pretty typical. What drives me away is, in my opinion, likely to drive away a significant number of other customers. If they can succeed with the customers that are left, good for them. They can go their way and I’ll go mine. Well, yeah. That’s part of what I’ve been saying. ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562/159 "2013-06-15T22:33:35Z")
OP checking in: Slow food = sit down and wait an eternity for your food as opposed to grabbing something at McDonalds and getting on with your life. I hate sit down places so I kind of deride them as “Slow-food” not knowing there was an actual meaning to the term. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562/160 "2013-06-15T23:02:20Z")
The most horrifying part of this entire thread – and there are several contenders – is that you use the term “slow food” to differentiate from fast food, implying that fast food is the norm. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-no-substitutions-mean-on-a-slow-food-menu/660562.md?page=9)