# What does "not a punk" mean to you? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 10, 2015, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-not-a-punk-mean-to-you/734134 "2015-10-10T11:16:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-not-a-punk-mean-to-you/734134/1 "2015-10-10T11:16:50Z")
At work the other day, somebody asked a co-worker about the group dynamics, group character, etc… Employee A said “Oh, these guys are all cool…no punks…” Employee B thought that “no punks” was a contemptuous phrasing of “no gay men”. Employee A didn’t correct Employee B, but, later, Employee A told me that he had used the term “punk” to mean “something akin to a jerkoff who would stab his co-workers in the back or not have their backs when the same could be easily accomplished”. The word “punk” has had a few definitions over it’s history, but, I’m rather curious what the overall perception currently is. So, when you hear the phrase “no punks/not a punk” what does that mean to you? ETA: The question is specific to the phrase(s) listed. I think that phrases like “punk-ass bitch” and the like are universally understood. Also, not looking for a value judgement, just for your perceptions of what the phrase means. ---
**Author:** ![Periwinkle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Periwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Periwinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-not-a-punk-mean-to-you/734134/2 "2015-10-10T11:51:21Z")
For me, the word “punks” has 0% to do with being gay. I think of a punk as a tiresome young guy who is a smartass with a bad attitude. Usually a punk runs around with other punks, looking to stir up trouble because it is “exciting”, and that is about the extent of their aspirations in life. In the situation you described, I would have assumed that Employee A meant that it was a good group of solid guys who could be depended on. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-not-a-punk-mean-to-you/734134/3 "2015-10-10T12:18:28Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > I think that phrases like “punk-ass bitch” and the like are universally understood. I honestly haven’t a clue what that means. I’m sure I’ve come across it before, but all I can tell is that it’s uncomplimentary. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-not-a-punk-mean-to-you/734134/4 "2015-10-10T12:30:34Z")
> [@Periwinkle](#): > > For me, the word “punks” has 0% to do with being gay. I think of a punk as a tiresome young guy who is a smartass with a bad attitude. Usually a punk runs around with other punks, looking to stir up trouble because it is “exciting”, and that is about the extent of their aspirations in life. In the situation you described, I would have assumed that Employee A meant that it was a good group of solid guys who could be depended on. This is the most common meaning I am aware of. In jail punk and bitch are similar. A punk will give up his ass not to get beat up. Not really gay, just submissive out of fear. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-not-a-punk-mean-to-you/734134/5 "2015-10-10T12:36:16Z")
A young smartass, easy to take down. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-not-a-punk-mean-to-you/734134/6 "2015-10-10T12:42:14Z")
If a young man had a bad attitude and appeared to be heading for prison referring to him as a punk meant that once he got to prison he wouldn’t be tough enough to fend off the perverts. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-not-a-punk-mean-to-you/734134/7 "2015-10-10T12:47:00Z")
Even knowing the jailhouse origins of the term, the namesake musical movement, and the Candid Camera-esque ambush TV show, my current understanding (and use) of the word is for someone (always a male) who may bluster, but will actually back down from confrontation. It’s also a verb, meaning the act of confronting such a one and showing him to be cowardly. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-not-a-punk-mean-to-you/734134/8 "2015-10-10T12:56:16Z")
I guess it depends on how it is used. “We ran into a group of punks and they beat us up.” In this context, “punk” connotes a ruffian, not a gay person. “I’m not afraid of defending myself against those dudes. I ain’t no punk!” In this context, “punk” connotes someone who is weak and cowardly. Back in the day, I’m sure these things were also equated with “gay.” ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-not-a-punk-mean-to-you/734134/9 "2015-10-10T13:07:18Z")
I’ve never heard “punk” used to describe a gay person. How odd. A punk is a loudmouthed young person who thinks they’re tough, but probably isn’t. Or a person who’d stab someone in the back. “Not a punk” means solid, hard-working, dependable. ---
**Author:** ![Sahirrnee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sahirrnee/32/13937_2.png) [@Sahirrnee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sahirrnee)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-not-a-punk-mean-to-you/734134/10 "2015-10-10T13:10:50Z")
I’ve never associated punk with gay. A punk is a snot-nosed brat, hard ass wannabe who needs to get his ass kicked (sometimes literally) to learn some respect. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-not-a-punk-mean-to-you/734134/11 "2015-10-10T13:15:00Z")
According to this [source](http://www.odps.org/glossword/index.php?a=term&d=8&t=10193), it is a slang term for men who prefers the passive role in homosexual intercourse. ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-not-a-punk-mean-to-you/734134/12 "2015-10-10T14:02:42Z")
“punk” and “thug” are the same to me… though “punk” adds an element of ego to it. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-not-a-punk-mean-to-you/734134/13 "2015-10-10T16:51:29Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > I’ve never heard “punk” used to describe a gay person. How odd. > > A punk is a loudmouthed young person who thinks they’re tough, but probably isn’t. Or a person who’d stab someone in the back. > > “Not a punk” means solid, hard-working, dependable. This. Though I’d add that it sounds more like something a 1960s adult would say about a1960s teenager than something I’d hear nowadays. I don’t think I’ve said or thought the word since about 1975. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-not-a-punk-mean-to-you/734134/14 "2015-10-10T17:02:15Z")
The only reason I know it can refer to a homosexual man in US black slang is because I’ve read articles about the down-low subculture (black men who covertly have sex with men). It may also be used by US Hispanics. If the person who understood “punk” to mean “gay man” were black, especially from the lower economic stratum, I’d see the origin of the misunderstanding. Notwithstanding that, I’d just take it to mean “undesirable person”. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-not-a-punk-mean-to-you/734134/15 "2015-10-10T17:09:07Z")
As far as the gay thing…that’s something I’d never have come up with. To me a punk is a weak, weasely, back stabbing little shit that THINKS he is a thug. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-not-a-punk-mean-to-you/734134/16 "2015-10-10T18:41:24Z")
I know that _in the past_ the term “punk” has been used as a slang term with much the same meaning as “prison bitch”, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard it used this way in real life. While for all I know this usage may still be common in some subcultures, in 2015 it strikes me as both obscure and dated. This definition does still show up in [Merriam-Webster](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/punk) though (3c). In a context where it’s clear that one isn’t talking about punk _music_ and associated fashions, my understanding of the term would be closer to Merriam-Webster’s 3b or perhaps 3a. I’d say that a punk is an obnoxious teenager or young adult. The word typically, although not always, refers to a boy or man. A punk is possibly some sort of petty criminal but might just be rude and unreliable. Either way, not the sort of person one would want as an employee. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-not-a-punk-mean-to-you/734134/17 "2015-10-10T20:54:35Z")
In the OP’s context I’d take it to mean “jerk.” In other contexts, it might mean a coward or someone who doesn’t stand up for themselves or the group. We’re some tough SOBs, we don’t punk out, etc. That probably wouldn’t be the intended message in an office setting, though. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-not-a-punk-mean-to-you/734134/18 "2015-10-10T21:06:39Z")
> [@OneCentStamp](#): > > Even knowing the jailhouse origins of the term, the namesake musical movement, and the Candid Camera-esque ambush TV show, my current understanding (and use) of the word is for someone (always a male) who may bluster, but will actually back down from confrontation. It’s also a verb, meaning the act of confronting such a one and showing him to be cowardly. I agree with this. It’s someone who makes a lot of noise and will try to dominate those he perceived as weak but will tuck tail and cower if confronted by someone with authority. ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-not-a-punk-mean-to-you/734134/19 "2015-10-11T01:36:08Z")
The word punk makes me think of those kids (18-25) hanging out on street corners with their pants halfway down their asses, and their underwear showing over the top. They also have a flat fitty on, with the round sticker still on the bill, they’re wearing a tank top, and sneakers that are untied. They’re discussing how to come up with some money, anything including theft is fine, as long as it doesn’t involve actually working. ---
**Author:** ![Omega\_Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7c8e57/32.png) [@Omega\_Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omega_Glory)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-not-a-punk-mean-to-you/734134/20 "2015-10-11T04:12:58Z")
If the speaker was anyone besides an older black guy, I wouldn’t be sure if he meant thugs who’d try and beat you up or cowardly types. If the speaker is an older black man, I’d think he meant gay. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-not-a-punk-mean-to-you/734134.md?page=2)